2016 NHK Trophy Men FS

[da96103]

http://figureskating-in-color.tumblr.com/post/153705672462/more
Getting a warm hug from Lambiel after doing a good skate -what could be better?
Lambiel, Tanaka and Hanyu and Deniss

Yuzu hugged Lambiel so tightly till his eyes squints. I think he wants to absorb all those Lambiel energy.

 

[da96103]

Nathan is simply cramming to many quads in his LP which makes his LP nothing but a jump contest and sloppy landings. Rafael needs to tell him to back off the quads and work on the program. He needs to see the big picture and realize that 2018 isn't his only shot at the Olympics and after 2018 there will be retirements then he can look to making the podium at the Olympics. He has time but he seems to be in a rush for some reason.

I thought Rafael did that: reducing the number of quads. Nathan attempted 4 quads in FS here compared to 5 in Trophee and Finlandia.

 

[qwertyskates]

Can a skating/jump expert explain how Yuzu can leap 3m into the air without any speed or acceleration? It looks like he just flies up and does spins in the air! I've never seen any skater jump this way, and he keeps getting better at this no-acceleration jumping, just amazing. Beautiful transitions too, I wasn't sure at SC but with a smoother flow of the program, there are lots of details to pick up. I wish he would look up and straighten more though, for a better posture.

 

[da96103]

And by contrast, what kept running through my mind in the FS was how much more watchable it is now that Marina has worked with Nathan to actually use all the ballet training he must have had over the years.

Still too much two foot skating in spots, but he's now a skater that makes me want to watch, not just think that he could be interesting to watch in future.

Rafael, who argued that that artistry was just the "in between" was not bringing him up to that level. Glad Marina is still listed as primary coach, as she seems to have a vision that will make Nathan a contender this Olympics not just in 2022.

Really hope Nathan and his parents can make it work with both Rafe and Marina, but the way Rafe was pushing himself into the scene with hugs, it looks as though Rafe is continuing to put priority on ownership.

I love those ballet poses, hands in the air and always looking at the judges who represents the audience in a theatre.

 

[da96103]

Nathan has higher PCS than Jason! Ok, so Yuzuru, Nathan and Adam qualified to GPF. Congrats to Yuzuru! :hap57:

It could mean that judges have run out of patience with Brown and is ready to bestow US goodwill on another skater. And Brown doubling so many triples is not helping matters. Judges may take it as not committed to the performance.

 

[Mrs. P]

It could mean that judges have run out of patience with Brown and is ready to bestow US goodwill on another skater. And Brown doubling so many triples is not helping matters. Judges may take it as not committed to the performance.

After one bad competition? Even if his PCS was far from his best, it was still the third highest among all the men. I think judges still appreciate him, but they weren't going to give 85+ PCS -- and they shouldn't -- with that skate.

 

[da96103]

GPF lineup now complete we have Javier, Yuzuru, Shoma, Patrick, Nathan and some photobomber.

Who is this photobomber? Is he the one that has no sleeves?

 

[MIM]

There still isn't very much choreography. He spends the first half just doing crossovers to one side of the rink to do all the jumps. I think what makes it less blatant is the fact he manages to do crossovers and the jumps to the beat of the music, so that's arguably an improvement.

I have to agree.

Yeah, total degustibus here. I did find as I was watching Nathan's skate that while I wasn't wild about the program, I do see how some people would be impressed by just all the quads.

I do think there is a happy medium between crossovers/perfunctory transitions/oodles of quads and intricate choreography/fewer quads. I think Boyang is truly trying to exhibit that happy medium, but obviously it's a strategy that's going to take some time to gel (just like it's taking Jason time for that quad to stick in his programs). I do still appreciate seeing programs and while Boyang has a ton of work to do, I do admire him for his efforts.

I just wrote a post in the men's thread about multiple strategies the U.S. men seem to be adopting.

I think Boyang advances in adapting quads to choreography or choreography to quads; one step closer to "the happy medium"
He spent last year testing his layout with less than desirable choreography and maybe built a confidence to place the quads and transitions/choreography as he is doing this year.

Nathan, OTOH, just debuted senior this year; he could not land half of his jumps at his first event not to mention the suffered performance quality. At the second event, he landed some and managed to add little more flair, but could not even put one quad in the second half.

I think 1 year gave enough advantage to Boyang, but Nathan is also learning his lessons.

Edit>
Regarding Jason;
It is a strategic move; from quad to program or from program to quad. I don't think one way is better or easier than the other. At least Boyang and Nathan get higher scores in progress, while Jason does not get ranked high until he reaches the goal. It is not an easy battlefield for Jason, but I respect that Jason does not stop his effort to get there and still ALWAYS delivering beautiful performance while his quads/gel in the making.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Since Nathan has actually proven he can stand up on the thing AND rotate it in competition, it's not a planned fall, he just splattered it. Huge difference.

I wasn't serious.
Anyway, Adam landed a clean quad at TDF. Let us not forget.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Who is this photobomber? Is he the one that has no sleeves?

Yes, more disrespect for Adam.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

I don't think the 4Lz is a planned fall since he has already landed it 4 times this season (twice at Finlandia, twice at Trophee).

If you said 4S in the Trophee FS is a planned fall (which is not planned here), that would have been more believable.

If anything, Rafael convinced Nathan to drop the 5th quad in FS and to reinstall 3As in SP and FS.

I said no I don't really think that I know it wasn't a planned fall.

 

[ice coverage]

... ... the way Rafe was pushing himself into the scene with hugs, it looks as though Rafe is continuing to put priority on ownership.

LOL, so if your interpretation of Raf's hugs were fair, then it would be equally fair to interpret Marina's hugs also as "pushing [her] way into the scene" and "continuing to put priority on ownership."

During the years when Nathan trained with Raf in California, I found it sweet to see Raf's nonverbal displays of affection for Nathan. I don't know why the same behavior from Raf now should be perceived with cynicism. YMMV.

I must say I am quite amused to recall your finger-pointing at Raf in a previous thread for what you believed to be spinning.
Perhaps a projection of your own natural inclination for spinning, I now see.

 

[ancientpeas]

Balde...:-( So beautiful and so many jumping problems today.

Carol and Kurt totally fangirled over Hanyu today. It was adorable. I think Kurt might have signed up for the Yuzuru fan club. They basically said that when he's on he can't be beaten. In some ways Hanyu reminds me of Browning. Total package skaters.

Felt badly for Nam and Alexei. :-( But now they can focus on nationals and Europeans and kick some butt there.

Just to get an idea about how badly Jason (who I really like) skated? They didn't even show him on CBC. Like they didn't even show his score on the score board. Heartbreaking.

 

[Sorrento]

Nah. More like this: https://youtu.be/jaqymceidB8?t=21s

Oh no, I don't find that flattering even to a girl's body, sorry.

 

[Sorrento]

Is the Fed really "forcing" Mikhail to do these things? I've never heard of them forcing other skaters to attempt layouts more difficult than they could handle. Nobody forces Petrov to try even one quad, and they are both in the national team. What proof do we have of this, that doesn't come from FSO or gmyers?

There is no proof, I think it's just some people overreacting. It's like they don't try to see things from Mikhail's perspective. How do they know he doesn't want to add a new quad and become more competitive by himself? We have quite a few skates in the lead group who do not have lots of quads and are still doing pretty good having very good PCS. Mikhail has a very impressive skill in PCS Dept and adding some quads (those he is capable of performing) will make him even more competitive. I'd say- let him try at least. cheer for him. He needs that more than crying around about evil Federation.

 

[Sorrento]

Old SP. FS is new.

Sorry, you're right.:yes:

 

[Sorrento]

He was moving at a very moderate pace. Now it's trying to add quad salchow and/or quad lutz and harder layout. All the moderation is gone. Now the problem is trying to improve its going at a pace that so fast it's not working for anything. He was forced to move slow before because of injury and this new fast pace could cause injury as well as the bad results.

Look, I understand you're worried but it's a risky sport. He is pretty aware of that. If he was not capable of doing quads- then he would have stopped traning them. Give him a chance, have a bit more faith in him. If he wants to be a leader in Russian Men's field- he has to do something. It all depends on him and not on a "pushing" Federation.

 

[Sorrento]

I'm afraid of Nathan becoming injured. The way he rushes into his jumps. The hips can only take s much.
I get the feeling Nathan is being pushed to hard by someone. Parents maybe.

You need to read Raf's interview about Nathan from the previous season. He said Nathan is young and hungry. Those quads are his own decision, his dream and his joy. Being a parent to a figure skater who has a long history of injures does not make parents pushy, I'd be terrified most of the time.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

You need to read Raf's interview about Nathan from the previous season. He said Nathan is young and hungry. Those quads are his own decision, his dream and his joy. Being a parent to a figure skater who has a long history of injures does not make parents pushy, I'd be terrified most of the time.

I will watch it thanks.

 

[vorravorra]

There is no proof, I think it's just some people overreacting. It's like they don't try to see things from Mikhail's perspective. How do they know he doesn't want to add a new quad and become more competitive by himself? We have quite a few skates in the lead group who do not have lots of quads and are still doing pretty good having very good PCS. Mikhail has a very impressive skill in PCS Dept and adding some quads (those he is capable of performing) will make him even more competitive. I'd say- let him try at least. cheer for him. He needs that more than crying around about evil Federation.

Oh, he definitely wants to add another quad himself, he has been saying it from the last season. Which of course doesn't have to stop the Fed from applying extra pressure. As for Petrov -
the Fed is sufficiently sane not to demand something a skater just isn't capable of producing. Plus Mishin is in a better position to do as he chooses with his students.