2016 Skate Canada Ladies FP

[Sam-Skwantch]

The concept of Zhenia's program is nothing I find offensive and actually like the idea of it. The delivery is a bit too overt for my liking and lacks a lot of what I like in figure skating programs. So what? It doesn't make me root against her and why should anyone care about my personal tastes and hang ups. All that matters is what the judges see.

I renew my earlier argument that it doesn't feel right to spot her 2-3 falls in pts over her competitors. I think sonething in the scoring system is broken because everyone should not have to skate a program like Zhenia's to be competitive. Including Zhenia Just my opinion though.

I think figure skating is fun to follow but I wish some folks took it a little less personal and learned to enjoy it a bit more. Even skaters that aren't your cup of tea can be fun to watch and get to know as elite competitors. YMMV.

 

[applemango]

Averbukh chose to base this program on a real-life tragedy. I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove.

You said first that this is an FS forum. Maybe, I got whatever you're saying wrong. So what do you mean when you had to say this is an FS forum in relation to my first comment?

 

[gotoschool]

The judges are doing nothing different. Satoko is still gettting +1 and +2 GOEs for her 3Lz-3T with a horrendously prerotated 3T while tech panel blithely ignores prerotations.

However, if Satoko Miyahara is the president of the Prerotated Toeloop Club, then I have no doubt Evgenia Medvedeva must take the vice president seat. Please take a look at the slo-mo gifs I made:


3F-3T in the SP (+1.4 GOE; judges gave +2s across the board)
https://imgflip.com/gif/1d7sw6

3S-3T in the FS (+0.4 GOE; only one judge gave negative GOE)
https://imgflip.com/gif/1d7tbf

How are these GOEs defensible when she can barely get two revolutions in the air?

I'm glad you're so happy with the judging. :noshake:

To me, the injustice is that other skaters are rotating over 2 1/4 even up to almost 2 1/2 rotations in the air on triples, which is considerably more, like Mao and getting ur calls because they are pre-rotating slightly less than 180 degrees. The calling of ur calls under this scenario to me is not only erroneous but inverted because the actual rotation of the jump, from take off to landing, is not measured at all and those with more rotation are getting ur calls. The triple lutz edges also seems to be obscured by more than 180 degrees of pre-rotation so that the outside edge is not held as long and there is kind of a spinning motion on the ice that helps with rotation and seems to give extra leverage and seems like edge calls to me on Evgenia's triple lutz, especially since in addition there is a large part of the inside skate blade in contact with the ice on take off instead of just the tip of the skate blade. I haven't looked at Satoko's triple lutz in the long yet.
I still don't know why Satoko received 0 in the step sequence but the fact that Evgenia and Katelyn both received much higher scores in the step sequences than Mao is another case of scoring inversion in my opinion especially since Katelyn received a lot lower score in the step sequence than Mao at Finlandia Trophy, and scores across competitions do matter because each competition is used as a precedent for subsequent scoring. Mao's PCS scores were also way too deflated compared to the competition here even with the mistakes in the long, especially with a clean SP. Also besides relatively deflated PCS and step sequences scores at Finlandia, Katelyn's backend 3F / 3 LP wasn't called ur even though it had considerably less rotation than Mao's ur call on her triple flip in the SP and on the triple lutz in the LP at Skate America. Another case of scoring inversion that in this case was decisive in the results at Finlandia. In context of everything else, it just seems to be a case of relative underscoring across multiple categories. But, I have to say I wish Mao wouldn't skate if the knee injury is as serious as it appears it may be.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Many movies, songs, and artists have used human tragedy for an over-the-top melodrama. It's unfair for a 16 year old kid to be unjustly picked on.

Katerina Witt was skating to something that she experienced, "her joy" in Sarajevo, and the horrors that occurred there post her Olympic experience. As an earlier poster mentioned, Evgenia is skating to something she has no recollection of, and using sound bites that haunt our collective memories, still. For me,... too much, too fresh, too contrived!

I don't blame the child, I blame the team around her who thought it okay to go over the top. I hope there was some learning here and constructive feedback given that helps with program changes that need to occur.

 

[ancientpeas]

I think Evgenia's long would be better without the sound effects. If she took those out I think it would be less objectionable to most people who object.

I think she's a beautiful skater and deserved to win. I also liked Satoko but she has to turn the jumps. I think she's so focus on being neat and precise on the jumps that she UR or prerotates. Tuk is looking much better this season but I didn't care for her program. I did like the headpiece though. I was happy for Kaetlyn because I like watching her. She has personality and energy on ice and I like to see someone who is interested in being entertaining and connects with the audience.

 

[MidnightSkater]

Katerina Witt was skating to something that she experienced, "her joy" in Sarajevo, and the horrors that occurred there post her Olympic experience. As an earlier poster mentioned, Evgenia is skating to something she has no recollection of, and using sound bites that haunt our collective memories, still. For me,... too much, too fresh, too contrived!

I don't blame the child, I blame the team around her who thought it okay to go over the top. I hope there was some learning here and constructive feedback given that helps with program changes that need to occur.

This is exactly what I said in an earlier post. A more mature woman can express more emotional pieces better.
Evgenia is not a child but a young woman. I think she did well with the piece in terms of expressing it. In terms of time, for me this is wrong. WW2 is still "fresh" for many. It's not the time scale but how you deal with it.

 

[TMC]

- Ice cream is my favourite dessert. I like chocolate ice cream, but I don't like sprinklers on it.
- You say you don't like sprinklers, but it's just an excuse. Really you just don't like chocolate ice cream.
- But I just said I like chocolate ice cream! Just not the sprinklers. I'd rather enjoy it without them.
- You hate chocolate ice cream. You just wanted pudding instead!
- I don't care for pudding, actually. I prefer ice cream.
- Your anti-ice cream comments are getting old. You're just an icecreamophobe, admit it!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I hate Ice Cream!!! It just leaves me cold and honestly it's not as good as it used to be when people actually used scoops

 

[TMC]

I hate Ice Cream!!! It just leaves me cold and honestly it's not as good as it used to be when people actually used scoops

I'm such an ice cream aficionado I even bought my own scoop! I find it easier to control the amount that way too

 

[ancientpeas]

For some in the south the Civil War is too fresh and referred to as "That late unpleasantness". (on the bright side this would get us out of Gone with the Wind programs).

I feel like I'm back in University again and stuck in a class with people rattling on about voice appropriation.

Isn't the movie the sound track is based on about a young man who finds out his father was killed in 911? I think that's totally appropriate for Evengia to skate to. Maybe she saw the film and was touched and moved by it and that's what she's trying to portray?

The ISU should just ban voice overs now. They are awful. It's one of those things that I feel strongly about. It also has the danger to become way to political or pushing of someone's personal agenda.

Get rid of the sound effects and voice overs and focus on the pathos of the plot of the program. It's about sudden loss and most people can relate to that.

 

[ancientpeas]

You can't serve ice cream: It's disrespectful to vegans and causes physical pain to the lactose intolerant. And lets remember the diabetics.

 

[Mrs. P]

For some in the south the Civil War is too fresh and referred to as "That late unpleasantness". (on the bright side this would get us out of Gone with the Wind programs).

I feel like I'm back in University again and stuck in a class with people rattling on about voice appropriation.

Isn't the movie the sound track is based on about a young man who finds out his father was killed in 911? I think that's totally appropriate for Evengia to skate to. Maybe she saw the film and was touched and moved by it and that's what she's trying to portray?

The ISU should just ban voice overs now. They are awful. It's one of those things that I feel strongly about. It also has the danger to become way to political or pushing of someone's personal agenda.

Get rid of the sound effects and voice overs and focus on the pathos of the plot of the program. It's about sudden loss and most people can relate to that.

The voiceovers are actual sounds from responder calls and news bites as 9/11 was happening. You can hear George W Bush speak at one point.

FWIW, the movie was also highly controversial for that reason (among others). It was in line to win awards, i.e. Oscars and the controversy really kept it from doing so.

I will add that I do appreciate Evgenia's commitment to performing the program, that is not at question for me. I do think there could have been a better vehicle to do so. Ymmv and all that.

As for ice cream there are dairy free and low sugar options.

 

[Mrs. P]

- Ice cream is my favourite dessert. I like chocolate ice cream, but I don't like sprinklers on it.
- You say you don't like sprinklers, but it's just an excuse. Really you just don't like chocolate ice cream.
- But I just said I like chocolate ice cream! Just not the sprinklers. I'd rather enjoy it without them.
- You hate chocolate ice cream. You just wanted pudding instead!
- I don't care for pudding, actually. I prefer ice cream.
- Your anti-ice cream comments are getting old. You're just an icecreamophobe, admit it!

Honestly I don't like bring showered with water while eating ice cream either!!!!

(I know what you meant, but in the states the spelling evokes a different meaning.))

 

[MeltedIce]

I need and ice cream to rise my sugar levels and see if I manage to follow this conversation

 

[Alexz]

- Ice cream is my favourite dessert. I like chocolate ice cream, but I don't like sprinklers on it.
- You say you don't like sprinklers, but it's just an excuse. Really you just don't like chocolate ice cream.
- But I just said I like chocolate ice cream! Just not the sprinklers. I'd rather enjoy it without them.
- You hate chocolate ice cream. You just wanted pudding instead!
- I don't care for pudding, actually. I prefer ice cream.
- Your anti-ice cream comments are getting old. You're just an icecreamophobe, admit it!

What you can get from Alaskan cow? Straight up ice cream. One needs to go to Alaska in order to get the best ice cream. =)

I hate Ice Cream!!! It just leaves me cold and honestly it's not as good as it used to be when people actually used scoops

I'm such an ice cream aficionado I even bought my own scoop! I find it easier to control the amount that way too

 

[Alexz]

You can't serve ice cream: It's disrespectful to vegans and causes physical pain to the lactose intolerant. And lets remember the diabetics.

Yes. Besides serving ice cream neat instead of straight up is not too politically correct. %)

 

[artsciboy]

Well, the hometown girl placed 11th last year at SC...there are no guarantees. Comparing the 2, Osmond had the competition of her life, skating lights out to 2 PB's after a 2 year struggle to get back to this performance level. Ashley skated a sp with a downgrade and a sub-par lp, ...their pathways to the podium and what was earned or gifted, are very different.

Well, Osmond placed 11th last year, not because the judges held her down but because she fell multiple times and the judges still tried to prop her up with 55.67 in PCS. No one should be getting PCS that high with 5 falls. She was fine and deserved to podium here, but not with those scores. Her SP was not flawless and that slip after the 3f-3t should have been reflected in the PCS - it was an obvious slip. Neither was Osmond lights out in the FS - she under rotated and fell on the 3l and had a distracting turn out and doubled the 3t. Yet, she scored 130+ for that. I am a Canadian and I like to see our skaters do well. Osmond has potential, but the judges are doing her a disservice for placing her on this pedestal.

In contrast, I thought Chartrand was vastly underscored. It sends a bad message to all those other skaters in Canada who hope to be marked fairly and have a legitimate shot at one of those few spots for Worlds and Olympics. Given how Osmond has been treated all these years (including her 70+ SP at National's this year, with only a 3f-2t, 3z(!) and a 2a), it must be hard to be a Canadian ladies figure skater and think they will have a fair shot to get on that team. The best they can hope for is for Osmond to implode and then the judges will have no choice but to put her behind. (Although, case in point, this past Nationals, those judges still tried their hardest to get her a top 2 spot - she finished overall with 197.87 versus Daleman who just slipped ahead of her with 197.99 - and Daleman landed 7 triples, while Osmond struggled).

As for Wagner, when you think about how much Osmond was over-scored this week for her output, "gifted" is the farthest thing from my mind. Wagner's content was comparable to Osmond's and yet she scored below 70 and 130 in the SP and LP last week. There was no over-scoring in the circumstances.

 

[MaiKatze]

- Ice cream is my favourite dessert. I like chocolate ice cream, but I don't like sprinklers on it.
- You say you don't like sprinklers, but it's just an excuse. Really you just don't like chocolate ice cream.
- But I just said I like chocolate ice cream! Just not the sprinklers. I'd rather enjoy it without them.
- You hate chocolate ice cream. You just wanted pudding instead!
- I don't care for pudding, actually. I prefer ice cream.
- Your anti-ice cream comments are getting old. You're just an icecreamophobe, admit it!

This should win the GoldenSkate award for best post ever. Honestly, *LOL*!!!

 

[ancientpeas]

But they will never be as delicious or chocolatey (since we are talking about chocolate ice cream). Like soy cheese. Perfectly edible but not cheese and should never be represented as cheese.

I have not seen the film. I didn't want to. I started to watch the coverage right after the first hit and I saw the second hit live and the buildings come down live. That was enough for me.

Does this feel exploitative? I don't know. I found the French team's 911 tribute in 02 to be exploitative. I think that if Evgenia sticks to conveying the emotion of the shock of sudden loss and chaos then this program can work. If she can hit the right emotional notes then maybe people can see it for what it is: Trying to contextualized the world view on to the personalized experience. But please take out the voice overs and sound effects.

 

[noskates]

Well I just woke up and came in here to read about the Women's final and it appears y'all are having dessert.

(quietly backs out of thread)