2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[noskates]

I'm still totally amazed at the hate and meanness that's being leveled against Ashley. People stating what THEY think are her thoughts and passing them off as fact. Criticism being stated as if the poster is totally in-the-know about all facets of Ashley's training and decisions and what's going on in her head. First of all, at the very least a lot of this criticism is a direct slap at Raf. From what I know of him - which may admittedly be very little - I cannot imagine in what universe Ashley is in charge of that coach/skater relationship. So if you're unhappy with her music - perhaps you should be digging at him instead of her. I also cannot imagine in what universe she unilaterally made a decision to return to LaLa Land. She didn't just walk into the rink one day and announce that was what she was doing. I'm going to presume it was a decision made by Ashley, her choreographer and her coach with the thought that it was the best thing for her to do at this time. Some of you are painting her to be a controlling witch who is just out for attention. I guess that's why she's trained all these years and all these hundreds of hours. There are easier ways to get attention than giving up almost your whole life for a sport that is as demanding as figure skating.

Wish y'all would just give it a rest and lay off of her. She'll either skate well or not. I'm hoping she skates well, wins Nationals and somehow grabs a medal at the Olympics. Or at least is in the top 5. In this day and age - that's a win!

 

[mrrice]

^^^^ I don't think anyone "hates" Ashley. I know that I don't. However, the time has passed for her to "Held Up" by the judges. If she were to lose a very close battle with a younger skater, I think the USFSA should let the numbers stand and let the real winner go to Korea. I know that Ashley can do it under normal circumstances but, with this last minute change she has become a question mark. With none of the US ladies making the GPF, whatever happens at Nationals should stand and the "Committee" should stay out of it.

 

[andromache]

^^^^ I don't think anyone "hates" Ashley. I know that I don't. However, the time has passed for her to "Held Up" by the judges. If she were to lose a very close battle with a younger skater, I think the USFSA should let the numbers stand and let the real winner go to Korea. I know that Ashley can do it under normal circumstances but, with this last minute change she has become a question mark. With none of the US ladies making the GPF, whatever happens at Nationals should stand and the "Committee" should stay out of it.

I agree, and I think this is what USFS will do.

With very few exceptions, USFS has been extraordinarily hands off in deciding Olympic teams. They almost always let Nationals decide. It's clear that no lady has the past results this season to justify being placed on the team ahead of someone who beats them at Nationals.

We're continuing to debate over a non-issue.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

US nationals is always a Saturday night so that they can air the ladies free skate at the best time, right? When they believe people will be watching?


Any word on Mariah or anybody? At this point, with the criteria, I think Ashley and Karen have the best shot at the Team, with mirai a maybe because she wasn’t at Worlds, a Teir 1. Is the previous year’s 4CC considered? And Mariah wasn’t great at last year’s Worlds or 4CC or Grand Prix, so she doesn’t have a great shot.

 

[noskates]

Mr. Rice - I usually agree with most all of your posts and enjoy your opinions. But I have to differ with you on Ashley. There's a double standard going on here. Everyone waits with baited breath every year (what a weird couple of words) for Mirai as if she's the second coming. This will be her year. She has the triple A. Yada! Yada! She generally or chronically disappoints and yet people STILL think she's going to turn the corner. Same with Karen. She had a couple of good skates last year - first time since she was a junior - and this year has bombed every time she steps on the ice - and for the same ol' reasons. I really don't expect Nationals to be any different for her. And yet all the negative focus is now on Ashley. I guess it's the "in" thing now to bash her and criticize her....I'm in the wait and see mode. And the "held up by judges" comment on soooooo many skaters is really getting old. Maybe that's the new norm!

For the record, Ashley is not my favorite lady on the ice. I'm just kind of tired of how she's being treated on this board.

Guess it's time to step away.....

 

[mrrice]

Mr. Rice - I usually agree with most all of your posts and enjoy your opinions. But I have to differ with you on Ashley. There's a double standard going on here. Everyone waits with baited breath every year (what a weird couple of words) for Mirai as if she's the second coming. This will be her year. She has the triple A. Yada! Yada! She generally or chronically disappoints and yet people STILL think she's going to turn the corner. Same with Karen. She had a couple of good skates last year - first time since she was a junior - and this year has bombed every time she steps on the ice - and for the same ol' reasons. I really don't expect Nationals to be any different for her. And yet all the negative focus is now on Ashley. I guess it's the "in" thing now to bash her and criticize her....I'm in the wait and see mode. And the "held up by judges" comment on soooooo many skaters is really getting old. Maybe that's the new norm!

For the record, Ashley is not my favorite lady on the ice. I'm just kind of tired of how she's being treated on this board.

Guess it's time to step away.....

Noskates....Do NOT step away. This kind of "Banter" has been going on for years!! I went through the same thing with Maria Butyrskaya and it was very difficult at times. Do you guys remember "The MK Forum??" They were VICIOUS to me during her time and I made it through. My advice is to stay true to who you are and love your favorite skater no matter what..... True skating fans may not love your favorite but, they will understand. They've put up with my ramblings for almost 20 years.....Dang, I'm old.

 

[brightphoton]

Is there a way to fast forward the podcast to get to a certain time because I can't seem to be able to do it?

If you ever figure it out, let me know too. The interface on that podcast website is really clunky. I had to download the podcast to my computer and use my own music player to skip around.

 

[ice coverage]

... mirai a maybe because she wasn’t at Worlds, a Teir 1. Is the previous year’s 4CC considered? ...

Yes, Mirai's bronze at 2017 Four Continents counts as a Tier 2 criterion :yay:.

---

US nationals is always a Saturday night so that they can air the ladies free skate at the best time, right? When they believe people will be watching? ...

No, not always.

This year, the Men's FS is on Saturday night (east coast time)

And the Ladies FS is on Friday night (east coast time.)

http://www.sapcenter.com/2018usfigureskatingchampionships/schedule​

---

Is there a way to fast forward the podcast to get to a certain time because I can't seem to be able to do it?

If you mean on the IN website, the answer is Yes.

http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk​

When the page first loads, the time shown to the right of the Play button is 0:00.

To fast forward, click (and hold) on the white square to the right of "0.00" and move the white square along the horizontal bar to whatever time point you want.

 

[BackSpiral]

It's reminiscent of 1998 and Kwan, Lipinski, and Bobek were endorsing Campbells soup. Eyebrow raising for sure to have Bobek included. Fortunately, Kwiatkowski bombed so it wasn't controversial, but one wonders if she had skated clean would she have been denied? I think she would have been denied.

My my, how times have changed. That commercial was huge. I doubt we will ever see anything like that again. Of course, TV changes have an effect on that as well.

 

[flipsydoodle]

What makes you think Ashley trusts politics? What makes you think she expects a spot? You're putting lies out there, imagining what's in her head; even though you don't know what she's thinking. You're saying these things on a public forum, apparently trying to influence others to think as you do. I wonder, what's your motivation?

.

You are misrepresenting what I wrote. I was responding to another thread.

 

[frida80]

Someone before mentioned how bad it is that US skaters didn’t make to the GPF this year. In all honesty I think it’s less a reflection of how bad US ladies are in contrast to how other competitors are taking earlier competitions seriously now.

I’ve honestly didn’t take the GP seriously until recently. That’s because it always felt like a warm up to the season. Now with the addition of the CS series and the fact that both Japan and Russia are taking these early competitions very seriously, is bad contrast to the US that often have athletes peak later in the season.

I remember in 2012 at the NHK when Mao beat Mirai, and people were critical because Mao only had about three triples. Just her 3F, 3Lo, and her 2A+3T combo, when the rest of her jumps were popped (Technically Mirai came in 3rd over all.) Contrast that to worlds, when she attempted seven triples including her 3A. Her TES score was 12 points higher. However, she still managed to make it to the GPF with such low technical content because not many people were doing better at the time.

My theory has been that before recently, the first competitions including the GP were a warm up. A way to test out your new programs and work out the bugs while earning medals. When the competition was more serious; GPF, Nationals, Worlds, then competitors would add in more difficulty and also gain consistency needed for this more stressful later competitions. In the past, you could medal at a competition with a score in the 110’s and no triple triple That’s not the case anymore.

Now more skaters are fully prepared. There’s no testing green programs anymore with Russians or Japanese. Ladies are assigned CS competitions early and debut their programs during the summer with all their jumps ready to go. So instead of seeing weak CS competitions with scores mostly in the170’s to 180’s, we see Zhenia, Alina, Maria, and Wakaba all earning over 200 and other skaters like Marin, Mai, and Carolina earning close to 200. Contrast that to the US, where Bradie was the only one that scored close to 200 at the Lombardia Trophy and is now the highest scoring US lady this season. The reason she was so strong at LT was because she competing all summer long to prove to USFS that she deserved the SA spot.

It doesn’t bother me at all that we’re not in the GPF or that we’re not in medal contention for the Olympics. This is something I realized would happen last season. Learning to accept short term losses is the nature of sports. “Can’t win ‘em all.” As the saying goes.. However, the fact that so many ladies are fully prepared at the start of the season means that the US cannot take the CS for granted anymore. They have to ensure ladies are boot ready by September 1st. That means more summer competitions and potential senior B competitions before the start of the CS.

The benefits are clear. Ladies will be more consistent throughout the season. The PCS scores will grow more, ensuring high scores later in the season. They’ll be more competitive, earn higher ISU SB and increase their chances at GP slots for the next season. And it will mean a better national competition in January.

I certainly hope USFS gives up their tendency to pin all their hopes on one promising skater, instead ensuring that all skaters can be competitive as possible before they begin their international season.

 

[flipsydoodle]

What makes you think Ashley trusts politics? What makes you think she expects a spot? You're putting lies out there, imagining what's in her head; even though you don't know what she's thinking. You're saying these things on a public forum, apparently trying to influence others to think as you do. I wonder, what's your motivation?

If you've listened to Ashley at all, you'd know that she repeatedly talks about what she's doing to earn her spot. She's doing everything she can. Raf has said her training is all there. She had an infection in her foot/ankle. She followed doctor's orders. She tried her best at SA; then she wisely withdrew because she believed she was risking further injury if she didn't. She's now changed back to the FS she originally planned for the Olympic year because she believes it will give her the inspiration and the edge that she needs.

The question is, why are you so bound and determined to take her down in people's eyes?



Who says she has any such expectation? What she says indicates the opposite.



You're fabricating thoughts and asking people to believe them. The reality is what Andromache said:



:agree:



If you'd listened to Ashley at all over the years, you'd know that she's repeatedly said that she's a performer at heart, that her strength as a skater, and her desire, are to create performances that audiences will enjoy and give them their money's worth at any competition or any skating event.

It’s a shame you take my perceptions and analysis personally. In no way were they intended to offend you.

 

[Moxiejan]

1)
2) I barely refer to Ms. Wagner specifically.

This quote is just one of several in this thread in which you were specifically bashing "Ms. Wagner"; it was in direct response to a post that you quoted and thus the "she" is indeed referring to Ashley:

"Strong enough for a top 3 finish?" Why is it okay to just make the podium and not aim for a fabulous display of talent, artistry, and technical dazzle? What a snub to fans who've paid a high price for tickets and given support through thick and thin: they're being asked to settle for "quickly put together by the skin of her teeth so she can go to the Olympics" instead of "first-rate representative of the US who is gunning to win."

It should be noted that we have the very detailed "Making of La La Land" video, dating from late summer, as proof that this program certainly wan't "quickly put together by the skin of her teeth."

 

[R.D.]

US nationals is always a Saturday night so that they can air the ladies free skate at the best time, right? When they believe people will be watching?

Oddly enough, this year it appears the ladies FS will actually be on a FRIDAY(!) night, with the Men's event on Saturday night instead.

4 more weeks and all our questions will be answered...

And regarding Wagner - she's got a certain personality, for better or worse - and thus a lot of people tend to have strong opinions on her, whether positive or negative. Couple that with it being the Olympic Year...and throw in many of her recent actions and it is no surprise folks are at odds here. I tend to lean toward what MrRice said - I don't think most people have it out for her, but would rather her earn her trip via a top 3 finish vs. being pre-selected (again). That said, I'm not ready to cry foul over a result that has yet to happen...let's see what happens at nationals. (Still though, that conflict of interest sponsorship bothers me)

 

[b-man]

From what I understand, most (if not all) Oly sports feds in the US are non-profit entities - someone correct me if i’m wrong here. Still, like for-profit organizations they still have operating costs, scholarships and salaries to pay and I understand the need to find means of covering those costs.

The issue here is you’ve got a sponsor(s) - Toyota in this case, and in 2014 it was Hilton Hotels - that sponsors not only the federation...but also one of the federation’s top skaters. Clearly there is a conflict of interest here - don’t have to spell it out do I? When you have a sponsor, suddenly it’s in your interest (as an individual/organization) to keep them happy so they keep sponsoring you. If they are also invested in one of your skaters...then is it not in the Fed’s interest to make sure said skater gets as much exposure as possible to maximize sponsor’s investment - in this case, being named to the Olympic team? And, regardless of whether the decision is justified by athlete accomplishments or not - the OPTICS look bad. They are poor. This is what happened in 2014. If USFS wants to not raise further suspicion - don’t make it appear as if Wagner is getting favorable treatment. That’s it at this point. Best move would be to remove the conflict altogether - terminate the sponsorship...and find someone else. I don’t see them doing that so they just better be mindful of the optics here.

I believe in 2014 Wagner and the USFS were both sponsored, in addition to any Toyota/ Hilton sponsorship, by P&G, through brands like Puffs and Cover Girl. So if Wagner, sponsored by Cover Girl, did not make the Olympics, that would be detrimental not only to Cover Girl, but also to P&G company Puffs, which was a major sponsor of Nationals. A clear conflict of interest. These companies, in addition to NBC, by the time of Boston Nationals, had already invested in an advertising campaign featuring Wagner.

 

[b-man]

I believe in 2014 Wagner and the USFS were both sponsored, in addition to any Toyota/ Hilton sponsorship, by P&G, through brands like Puffs and Cover Girl. So if Wagner, sponsored by Cover Girl, did not make the Olympics, that would be detrimental not only to Cover Girl, but also to P&G company Puffs, which was a major sponsor of Nationals. A clear conflict of interest. These companies, in addition to NBC, by the time of Boston Nationals, had already invested in an advertising campaign featuring Wagner.

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...r-isnt-ashley-wagner-its-her-sponsors/357009/

 

[R.D.]

I believe in 2014 Wagner and the USFS were both sponsored, in addition to any Toyota/ Hilton sponsorship, by P&G, through brands like Puffs and Cover Girl. So if Wagner, sponsored by Cover Girl, did not make the Olympics, that would be detrimental not only to Cover Girl, but also to P&G company Puffs, which was a major sponsor of Nationals. A clear conflict of interest. These companies, in addition to NBC, by the time of Boston Nationals, had already invested in an advertising campaign featuring Wagner.

didn’t occur to me it was all under the P&G umbrella...yikes, even worse than I thought! That Atlantic article hits the issue head on - we’ll never know the true motivation behind the 2014 decision.

I know Bridgestone tires sponsors Wagner - anyone know if they also a Fed sponsor?

 

[andromache]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...r-isnt-ashley-wagner-its-her-sponsors/357009/

I came across this article yesterday while researching this topic. Honestly, it's infuriating, as it doesn't even mention Ashley's competitive results for that season, or Mirai's.

I firmly believe USFS wants to send the best and most-deserving skaters to the Olympics. Do they have to please their sponsors? Sure - but surely they realize, as we do, that sending weaker skaters over stronger skaters ultimately results in less $$$, as ultimately no one will want to sponsor bad skaters and the federation of bad decisions.

(Plus, the hypothetical stronger skaters without Ashley's endorsements could, y'know, GET endorsements after making the Olympic team.)

Yes, there are conflicts of interest in sports where sponsors sponsor both athletes and federations. No, it's not a money-fueled conspiracy to put down good skaters and prop up bad ones.

 

[andromache]

didn’t occur to me it was all under the P&G umbrella...yikes, even worse than I thought! That Atlantic article hits the issue head on - we’ll never know the true motivation behind the 2014 decision.

I know Bridgestone tires sponsors Wagner - anyone know if they also a Fed sponsor?

Bridgestone put their name on Skate America this season, I believe?

Ashley earned her place on the Olympic team in 2014 by her past results, including a GPF bronze medal, where she stood on the podium next to two Olympic favorites.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Ashley earned her place on the Olympic team in 2014 by her past results, including a GPF bronze medal, where she stood on the podium next to two Olympic favorites.

I agree. The conflict of interest RD mentioned could be problematic in a close decision, but I don't think it was a close decision in 2014. I agree with RD that the optics are bad and, if Ashley makes the team without a podium finish this year, people will cry foul over these conflicts.