- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
True. It wasn't a good showing at Worlds, and our skaters aren't competing for medals. 2 spots is what the US deserves, to be completely honest.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
True. It wasn't a good showing at Worlds, and our skaters aren't competing for medals. 2 spots is what the US deserves, to be completely honest.
Great to see Bradie in 6th---she's now a seeded skater for the GP. And Mariah finishing 12th guarantees her two GP spots for next season.
Notably, Mirai was the only US lady who slipped lower in the standings from SP to FS. Since she wasn't going to be competing next season, maybe saving 3 spots wasn't a priority for her, so she just phoned it in (that's how her performances looked to me).
Notably, Mirai was the only US lady who slipped lower in the standings from SP to FS. Since she wasn't going to be competing next season, maybe saving 3 spots wasn't a priority for her, so she just phoned it in (that's how her performances looked to me).
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
- Country
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I thought Bradie and Mirai did a great job today - (sorry they didn't show Mariah so can't totally comment on her, looks like she did okay-ish). Shame about the underrotation calls but the panel was especially hard today. Still very proud of our American ladies - hope they hold their heads up high!
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
Finally, everything is over and the US ladies can catch a break from all the media drama. I'm not a fan of USFS but I felt kind of sorry for them throughout this season.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
Bradie did awesome. Sixth place at her first Worlds. That score would have also put her in fourth place last year, just saying. I found her flip UR call unfair, 3t on 2a call warranted. Flip looked less than a quarter clearly to me but it’s shin. Anyways now that Bradie made top 10 at Olympics and top 6 at worlds I’m sure she can find a top choreographer for next season that wants to work with her. Mariah made the same placement as last year.... and I agree, she hasn’t improved since last year. I’m not sure if Raf is the right coach for her but who am I to say. Mirai.... I think some UR calls were harsh and had it been another panel some wouldn’t have been called. But... they were. Bradie would have been a great solid finisher had there been a real top US lady to secure three spots along with bradie. Bradie was the only US lady that went out there and looked like she wanted to save the spots and was fighting for it. Mirai was lovely as always with her spirals and spins but jumps were (apparently) UR. I’m not sure what her mindset was obviously. But not going for the 3A after going for it all season says a lot. I wonder if she will stick around. I think not. She has been one of my favorites for years and I think when she won that team bronze medal with a perfect skate something turned off. She isn’t as motivated anymore. Not that she isn’t trying, she still worked hard for Worlds but you can just tell. The motivation isn’t there as it was before Olys.
Mirai has said repeatedly that she intends to continue competing. Stop making things up.
I disagree, watching live, I think Mirai's FS is fabulous, she has gave it all, got called on UR is unfortunate. but she is absolutely not phoned it, probably the most emotional invested and the best performance of that FS. Her emotion in the end is real.
I doubt vm Mirai will continue to compete now that she's lost to Bradie three times in a row (Nationals, Olys, Worlds). Mirai hasn't been able to finish higher at Worlds than 10th in her last two tries, and Bradie gets 6th her first time out. Mirai didn't even try her 3A---that says a lot more than her words.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
You know nothing. The ice was bad on practice ice, so her 3A was never consistent. Plus Shin has historically never called a 3A clean. If she fell on a 3A, it would’ve resulted in a lower score. So she decided to focus on skating clean. Shin is a complete jerk when it comes to tech calling. Mirai’s combos were objectively clean, but they still called them under rotated. Even Jackie who saw them real time was shocked. You can tell they were questionable called because most judges didn’t even give them negative GOE. It was mostly zeroes!
I saw a far more artistic Mirai, who was more exprsssive with her movements. As evidenced by her jump in components. Her PCS score is higher than the Olympics.
What this skate says to me above all is that Mirai was fought for this skate. She didn’t want to risk the 3A because she wanted to ensure she didn’t risk a lower score like the IE at PC. If she didn’t have Shin as tech controller, her score could’ve been ten points higher. I’m proud of her for still giving her all in yhat performance, even though she knew that Shin would evicerate her. I think it’s more telling that even Bradie got under rotations, and she seldom gets them.
Bradie's score would have been 10 points higher as well, without Shin Amano as technical specialist. And if Mirai 'gave her all', why did her step sequence get only L2 and mostly +1s in GOE from the judges? Bradie got L3 on her steps and all +2s. And if Mirai was so expressive, why were her PCS scores lower than Bradie's, when Bradie was the Worlds newbie and Mirai was the one with 11 years experience? Amano doesn't give PCS scores and GOE, the judges do.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
I agree the tech caller really nailed everyone except the top two( deservedly so). Bradie's calls were unfair to me, especially the flip. Some of Mirai's seemed unfair as well. I came excited to see if Bradie can carry her consistency in to next season. I believe she will! Hopefully with better programs! Top 6 at Worlds, Top 10 Olympics, Grand prix bronze medal, National champion... she has had quite the breakthrough season.
Also about the spots, we really don't need more than two at the moment. I believe we will earn them back in the next season or two if our ladies become motivated by the two spots and step it up. I still believe Mariah and Karen could do something but some kind of coaching change needs to happen, more so for Karen. I think Mariah will become Raf's number 2 priority now that adam and ashley won't be there, which will help her. If Bradie stays in form she could crack top 5 at worlds next season? You never know.
Also about the spots, we really don't need more than two at the moment. I believe we will earn them back in the next season or two if our ladies become motivated by the two spots and step it up. I still believe Mariah and Karen could do something but some kind of coaching change needs to happen, more so for Karen. I think Mariah will become Raf's number 2 priority now that adam and ashley won't be there, which will help her. If Bradie stays in form she could crack top 5 at worlds next season? You never know.
Mirai’s program is choreographed with less transitions, so naturally she wouldn’t magically get 70 overnight. To gain massive PCS score, she must win consistently over the season. Otherwise her score will only move incrementally, even if she does give a better performance. Those are the flaws of IJS. Alina’s PCS score jumped five points between the GPF and the Olympics.
The tech controller defines the level of the step sequence, so that explains that. Plus Bradie is the US champion, so judges tend to always give the US champ higher PCS scores unless they have a strong reputation. The difference in their components is less than a fraction of a point BTW.
I know a lot about the subjectivity of PCS scores and IJs scores over all. Mirai went out there and did a great job. An objective panel would’ve give a 128 - 130. But she got Shin Amano. Who’s clearly not objective when it comes to underrotations. Here’s a better question why did someone like Mao have consistently lower PCS scores than most ladies even though she’s a better performer? Because of this weird PCS inflation that happened during this quad. Many newer skaters have benefited from the system, why vets languish with the same score, even if they try making improvements.
Three years ago, Mirai had a PCS score in th 50’s! She has to claw herself from the bottom to even get a 60.
Nothing that Mirai did today shows that she wasn’t serious about this competition. On the contrary, she pushed down the cyberbullying she endured and still gave a decent performance. I hope she continues, because I feel she’s on the precipice of really reaching her potential.
Bradie went from 7th at JUNIOR Worlds last year to 6th at Senior Worlds. It's not a bad leap, really. She has stuff to work on, but really considering she wasn't even in the conversation too long ago, she had a decent season.
Kaetlyn Osmond should be a good inspiration for her. Kaetlyn never did much as a junior (10th at Jr. Worlds way back in 2012) and also endure many years of injuries that held her back but now she's an Olympic medalist and world champ.
Kaetlyn Osmond should be a good inspiration for her. Kaetlyn never did much as a junior (10th at Jr. Worlds way back in 2012) and also endure many years of injuries that held her back but now she's an Olympic medalist and world champ.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2018
Agreed, Bradie wasn't even in the conversation this time last year when the right choices for music / choreography and costuming needed to be made. I think in Bradie USFS got far more than they expected.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
Mirai was doing her 3a earlier in the week during practice and it wasn't going well, she made the right decision to not go for it. Look through Jackie's tweets from practice earlier this week, she kept falling and stepping out of it. Her 2A is marvelous. To say she gave up because she didn't do her 3a is ridiculous.
If anything, this season Mirai has shown improvement. Despite what the judges (Shin) called today, her jumps are much more rotated than they were in the beginning and middle of the season. She didn't have triple-triples until recently and inconsistently got her 3a this season.
I know she said she doesn't want to fade out but I don't think her decision about retiring has been made yet. She uploaded a youtube video today and it was pretty emotional about her experience at the olympics. She still seemed drained but was so excited for Stars on Ice. I wouldn't bet on it either way, but SOI may reinspire her and she could come back next season (with better programs please!). If anyone is interested in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTy8aDpIaSw&feature=youtu.be
Regardless, she hasn't made her decision yet and the last we heard from her is her saying she didn't want to fade away and she still had a couple of seasons left in her.
If anything, this season Mirai has shown improvement. Despite what the judges (Shin) called today, her jumps are much more rotated than they were in the beginning and middle of the season. She didn't have triple-triples until recently and inconsistently got her 3a this season.
I know she said she doesn't want to fade out but I don't think her decision about retiring has been made yet. She uploaded a youtube video today and it was pretty emotional about her experience at the olympics. She still seemed drained but was so excited for Stars on Ice. I wouldn't bet on it either way, but SOI may reinspire her and she could come back next season (with better programs please!). If anyone is interested in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTy8aDpIaSw&feature=youtu.be
Regardless, she hasn't made her decision yet and the last we heard from her is her saying she didn't want to fade away and she still had a couple of seasons left in her.
First, I have to commend Bradie. She's tougher than I thought, as a skater and as a person. She didn't let the awful way the American media threw the American ladies under the bus at the Olympics cause her to implode, although I wouldn't have faulted her if she had. I think that was part of what did Gracie in. (On a side note, I think it is totally possible to win back that third spot.)
I think the USFS has to strike the right balance between nurturing new talent and letting an emerged skater wear their success (and not use skaters the way I'm convinced they used Karen Chen, but that's a topic for another thread). I think it goes back to what happened to Kimmie Meissner. You can't expect a person to excel or deal with the setbacks of puberty if you are calling her a has-been and chasing he next big thing. This creates an atmosphere where you are afraid of being dropped at any time for any reason as soon as you don't measure up. This takes an already pressure-packed situation and creates out-and-out head cases and makes those who are already head cases worse. The fruit of that was Gracie. The one bright spot was Ashley who I think has an EXTREMELY thick skin. I WOULD SUGGEST THE USFS LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKE. You can't change the past, but you can make the future better.
The sport has struggled to find a face / voice since the Michelle Quan era. (Part of this is due to the fact that Americans view the sport as a 'women's sport' which means that the sport's 'face' has to be female. Sorry, Nathan. I feel qualified to say this because I'm American.) Everybody talks of the top 1-2 pushing each other to get better, but in the Michelle Quan era you had a unique situation you had your face of the sport who everyone wanted to emulate and pushed everyone below her as a result. Then you had your close rivals in places 2-5 who pushed each other. That's what gave the US a strong contingent in the past (and took some of the pressure off the other skaters). Certain groups pushed certain groups and Michelle pushed everyone. They need to find that dynamic again because it worked for them for over a decade. They need to find an identity. I still think coaching turnover would help, but that's a separate thread.
I think the USFS has to strike the right balance between nurturing new talent and letting an emerged skater wear their success (and not use skaters the way I'm convinced they used Karen Chen, but that's a topic for another thread). I think it goes back to what happened to Kimmie Meissner. You can't expect a person to excel or deal with the setbacks of puberty if you are calling her a has-been and chasing he next big thing. This creates an atmosphere where you are afraid of being dropped at any time for any reason as soon as you don't measure up. This takes an already pressure-packed situation and creates out-and-out head cases and makes those who are already head cases worse. The fruit of that was Gracie. The one bright spot was Ashley who I think has an EXTREMELY thick skin. I WOULD SUGGEST THE USFS LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKE. You can't change the past, but you can make the future better.
The sport has struggled to find a face / voice since the Michelle Quan era. (Part of this is due to the fact that Americans view the sport as a 'women's sport' which means that the sport's 'face' has to be female. Sorry, Nathan. I feel qualified to say this because I'm American.) Everybody talks of the top 1-2 pushing each other to get better, but in the Michelle Quan era you had a unique situation you had your face of the sport who everyone wanted to emulate and pushed everyone below her as a result. Then you had your close rivals in places 2-5 who pushed each other. That's what gave the US a strong contingent in the past (and took some of the pressure off the other skaters). Certain groups pushed certain groups and Michelle pushed everyone. They need to find that dynamic again because it worked for them for over a decade. They need to find an identity. I still think coaching turnover would help, but that's a separate thread.
