2017 CS Nebelhorn Ladies SP

[Frenchie]

I knew I shouldn't have looked at the judges scores!!:curse:
Since the videos are up, would someone please have 2 looks and explain this to me:
a) Alexia Paganini DID NOT lose a point for time violation. Link to the end of her SP
b) Dasa Grm DID get a time violation. Link to the end of her SP
(would still have been a catastrophy and no shot at Olympics, but she'd have been 4 places higher with that point, and she'd then have skated her FS 1 group and 68 minutes later.
Thanks!

Isadora looked great in the SP!! :yay:

She really did. I thought she deserved way higher PCS marks. :agree:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

She really did. I thought she deserved way higher PCS marks. :agree:

I added a little rant to my post above

 

[enzofv]

I'm so happy for Isadora!!

 

[pearly]

I knew I shouldn't have looked at the judges scores!!:curse:
Since the videos are up, would someone please have 2 looks and explain this to me:
a) Alexia Paganini DID NOT lose a point for time violation. Link to the end of her SP
b) Dasa Grm DID get a time violation. Link to the end of her SP

Maybe Dasa's music time was off? Now note that the last time I read the rulebook regarding music and skating time was probably about 15 years ago (pre-IJS even), but there are a lot of rules regarding how long you can wait before you start moving, how long you can stop in a program etc.

ETA: I think hr music time might be the problem. It starts at 0:08 and ends at 3:05, which means her music is 2 minutes and 57 seconds long. The maximum music time is 2:50.

That's a very bad mistake on her coaches' side (if this is really the case).

 

[vavavoom]

I am so glad I decided to watch it, and dare I say.. almost in full. I believe I only missed the Greek entrant and a few others were not in full. What an interesting event. As expected, it was less predictable than men.

I predicted 4 out of 6 of my initial bets. I missed Lindfors and Williams and instead had Galustyan and Yu.

I actually thought Craine would win it after last week's Ondrej Nepela/Lombardia. She is gorgeous, but I am not a fan of this type of programs.

Matilda was absolutely gorgeous and I would have put her first. Let's face it, Joshi is inconsistent and while she would have been in contention, you just never know what could have happened. Here, I was more confident she was going to deliver.

Ukraine, Switzerland and Brazil. Great job! Very smooth all over the place. I think Alexia was probably expected to end up higher than 5th among qualifying countries.

I do think Viveca was overscored. I simply do not think her program flows well, but good for her!

Shuran is gorgeous, she REALLY has a shot. Her short was not as good as at Worlds, but I have a feeling she will get the spot.

Alisson Krystle acquired a certain maturity that I adored, she looks like a different skater (in a good way).

Joanna from Hong Kong was a major and very pleasant surprise.

Anastasia was underscored! Her skating skills are through the roof! She has a difficult beginning of the season and needs to focus big time before tomorrow.

Daša and Niki unfortunately had issues with nerves, I am so sad their Olympics dream 2018 is 99% over.

This is the first time I saw Thita, her program flows so well. I hope she could qualify for WC in the future.

 

[Frenchie]

Maybe Dasa's music time was off? Now note that the last time I read the rulebook regarding music and skating time was probably about 15 years ago (pre-IJS even), but there are a lot of rules regarding how long you can wait before you start moving, how long you can stop in a program etc.

ETA: I think hr music time might be the problem. It starts at 0:08 and ends at 3:05, which means her music is 2 minutes and 57 seconds long. The maximum music time is 2:50.

That's a very bad mistake on her coaches' side (if this is really the case).

Thanks! But she's skated that programme like this for the whole of last season, and never got that penalty...
Since it pains me so to have seen her skate like this today, here's the same programme, just beautiful and clean: Cup of Tirol 2017 Ladies SP Dasa GRM
(If she had gotten that score here, she'd be in 3rd place!)

And for Paganini? They've been so picky with so many skaters when they finished just a little after the music. Not here? Oh well...

 

[Chemistry66]

Thanks! But she's skated that programme like this for the whole of last season, and never got that penalty...
Since it pains me so to have seen her skate like this today, here's the same programme, just beautiful and clean: Cup of Tirol 2017 Ladies SP Dasa GRM
(If she had gotten that score here, she'd be in 3rd place!)

And for Paganini? They've been so picky with so many skaters when they finished just a little after the music. Not here? Oh well...

At the link you posted, she started moving at 0:32 and finished at 3:22 which is 2:50 exactly, hence no penalty. Time requirements are 2:40 +/- 10 seconds, from start of motion to stop.

 

[karne]

Since the videos are up, would someone please have 2 looks and explain this to me:
a) Alexia Paganini DID NOT lose a point for time violation. Link to the end of her SP
b) Dasa Grm DID get a time violation. Link to the end of her SP
(would still have been a catastrophy and no shot at Olympics, but she'd have been 4 places higher with that point, and she'd then have skated her FS 1 group and 68 minutes later.

It's about the time, not the music. Senior Ladies' SP is 2:40 +/- 10s. Programs are timed from when the skater starts moving to when the skater stops. Nothing to do with music length. If Dasa was longer than 2:50 and Alexia was shorter, that's why.

 

[Chemistry66]

It's about the time, not the music. Senior Ladies' SP is 2:40 +/- 10s. Programs are timed from when the skater starts moving to when the skater stops. Nothing to do with music length. If Dasa was longer than 2:50 and Alexia was shorter, that's why.

Honestly though I just looked at Dasa's Nebelhorn video and she starts moving at 0:15 and stops at 3:05 which is 2:50 exactly. I can't see Alexia's video (says it's blocked in my country) but I can see why Frenchie may have a legit point here even if it originates from the wrong interpretation of the time violation rule. Can't speak for Alexia's skate, but Dasa's penalty is awfully touchy.

 

[karne]

Honestly though I just looked at Dasa's Nebelhorn video and she starts moving at 0:15 and stops at 3:05 which is 2:50 exactly. I can't see Alexia's video (says it's blocked in my country) but I can see why Frenchie may have a legit point here even if it originates from the wrong interpretation of the time violation rule. Can't speak for Alexia's skate, but Dasa's penalty is awfully touchy.

I just ran the programs using the stopwatch on my phone. I got 2:51 (just) for Dasa. Alexia's was blocked for me but IIRC the angle she finished on suggested that she did finish before 2:50 even if she ran out of music.

 

[Chemistry66]

I just ran the programs using the stopwatch on my phone. I got 2:51 (just) for Dasa. Alexia's was blocked for me but IIRC the angle she finished on suggested that she did finish before 2:50 even if she ran out of music.

Yeah, Dasa's time count is close. If they gave her the penalty it's overtime. But I can see where the confusion about why she was penalized came in, because it was so close to the limit.

 

[Frenchie]

It's about the time, not the music.

My bad, I thought that these days, you get a time violation deduction if you finish moving 2 seconds after the music ends, even if you don't exceed the allowed time limit.

 

[Chemistry66]

My bad, I thought that these days, you get a time violation deduction if you finish moving 2 seconds after the music ends, even if you don't exceed the allowed time limit.

Nope.

ISU deductions chart

 

[karne]

My bad, I thought that these days, you get a time violation deduction if you finish moving 2 seconds after the music ends, even if you don't exceed the allowed time limit.

Nope. Though this is why it's not usually a great idea to cut the music hard up against the limit if you can help it.

 

[Frenchie]

Nope.

ISU deductions chart

Thanks, but the link doesn't work for me. I tried finding that chart by myself, but with no success.
I found some other interesting stuff like the Technical Panel Handbook, the Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution and the SPECIAL REGULATIONS & TECHNICAL RULES .
Can you help me find that deduction chart?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Thanks, but the link doesn't work for me. I tried finding that chart by myself, but with no success.
I found some other interesting stuff like the Technical Panel Handbook, the Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution and the SPECIAL REGULATIONS & TECHNICAL RULES .
Can you help me find that deduction chart?

Is this it?


http://www.isu.org/inside-single-pa...-deduction-chart-who-is-responsible-2016/file

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Thanks, but the link doesn't work for me. I tried finding that chart by myself, but with no success.
I found some other interesting stuff like the Technical Panel Handbook, the Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution and the SPECIAL REGULATIONS & TECHNICAL RULES .
Can you help me find that deduction chart?

Just wanted to let you know that your problems opening the PDF is not a symptom of the recent ISU website re-design (for a change!), because it is opening for me.

http://static.isu.org/media/1018/sandp-deduction-chart-2016.pdf

I use Firefox, and there was a long time there that it wouldn't open PDF's for me. But that got fixed in an update a couple of months ago. So, if you are using Firefox too, it mightn't be a bad idea to try running an update and see if that will help.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Frenchie]

Is this it?


http://www.isu.org/inside-single-pa...-deduction-chart-who-is-responsible-2016/file

I don't think it is. This one says who of the referees is responsible for what type of penalty, but there isn't much detail: "-1.0 up to every 5 sec. lacking or in excess".

 

[Frenchie]

Just wanted to let you know that your problems opening the PDF is not a symptom of the recent ISU website re-design (for a change!), because it is opening for me.

http://static.isu.org/media/1018/sandp-deduction-chart-2016.pdf

I use Firefox, and there was a long time there that it wouldn't open PDF's for me. But that got fixed in an update a couple of months ago. So, if you are using Firefox too, it mightn't be a bad idea to try running an update and see if that will help.

CaroLiza_fan

Thanks, will do!