2017 GP Skate America Ladies FS

[Mathman]

The fictional character Cinderella is 19. Bradie is 19, how appropriate.

Making Cinderella the oldest of all the Disney Princesses. (Snow White was 14.)

 

[Miss Ice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7OCljwGGGM Here is another version of Johnny's drama.

I would love to know what uncle Dick and Peggy Fleming have to say about the current skaters, especially Satoko, Marin, Higuchi, Medvedeva, Hanyu, Uno and the US skaters.

The same thing happened to Yuna Kim at Korean nationals 2013 but she kept on skating, and added a 3F-3T after popping her lutz because of the fall. Then she slayed the FS.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Making Cinderella the oldest of all the Disney Princesses. (Snow White was 14.)

Well, other than Tiana who was also 19. topic:

 

[Mathman]

So now Satoko must wait to see if Evgenia withdraws from the Final, right?

 

[beki]

Cinderella is at her debutant ball. I also don't understand why Angela Nikodinov's Cinderella, which was marvelous and not seen as immature, and Bradies, which is equally lovely and charming, are seen in so differently. To me they are are the same theme, two girls entering young adulthood at a great ball. Like Mai Mihara like last year, it is a snapshot of a moment in time - a young girl at a big dance. What bigger dance than the Olympic trials.

Nikodinov's version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qKyUKtxoU

A couple things about Angela's skate might contribute to a different impression. She used the Prokofiev music, which has more highs and lows, even an ominous undertone. She didn't smile the whole time. She was wearing the before costume, not a ballroom costume. She wasn't playing princess, she was showing vulnerability and lyricism. Her version shows us the underdog story, while Bradie's shows us the final celebration. It doesn't feel as earned.

Nothing wrong with liking Bradie's take, but I personally thought it was corny. Does it matter? She still skated well. Program choice becomes significant in making the final flight at the Olympics, but to make the American team what she has is enough.

 

[purplecat]

Angela skated her Cinderella program for two seasons, first season she wore "rags' Cinderella dress, second season she wore a princess dress similar to Bradie's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBnqG7Mj9Q

The first time I saw Bradie's Cinderella it felt a little "young" to me but this time I felt like it suited her. Same with Mai last year - the more I saw it, the more I enjoyed her program.

 

[Globetrotter]

Really? Javi prerotates his 3Lz?

I can't quite find it now on GS. There was a thread recently on prerotation on lutz jumps (I think it was BoP or Sam Skwanch) where they showed in slo-mo how the very good lutz jumps from Jin Boyang or Han Yan took off straight from the toe pick without the skater spinning on the pick. The very good lutz from ladies were also shown and Yuna Kim, Liz Tuks and Karen Chen barely turned 90 deg on their pick before launching and rotating. On the contrary, the not so goo ones like Shoma, Uno and Javi were showed havin their toe pick pre-rotating at least 180 deg or more on the ice before they are totally airborne which suggested that they cheated at least half a turn on ice and had less air time rotation.

 

[Tonichelle]

Well, other than Tiana who was also 19. topic:

Elsa is 21. She starts out as a princess in her movie.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Elsa is 21. She starts out as a princess in her movie.

I always forget about her lol!

 

[TT_Fin]

I watched the ladies FS yesterday afternoon our local time Eurosport. I could not see even at low motions that Satoko´s jumps were underrotate. The last turn might not have been 100 % full, but I think clearly enough according to rules. When the jump is just near 75 %, it is very difficult to see if it is UR or not, but I think Satokos were about 90 % and that is enough.

But where did Bradie come from? I liked her. I think have not heard about her before. And Kaori´s FP

 

[klutzy]

Jason was second at Nationals in 2014 and they didn't send him to Worlds. They sent Max, the bronze medalist. So placement at Nationals is not determinative. Polina won 4CC's with a score lower than Mirai's silver medal the following year. But the point is, she had no senior record at all when she was chosen for the Olympic team. If they were going to bump someone for 4th place Ashley, it should have been Polina. MIrai had had her ups and downs but she had won a Grand Prix medal that season and had won other senior international medals in the past.

Men's skating is a different issue than Ladies because of the quad. And Jason Brown *did* go to the Olympics that year. Polina Edmunds would have had international experience if the US had sent her to Junior Worlds after she won the Junior US title, which would have given her some senior assignments.

Mirai always has her ups and downs. It's great that she has a loyal fan base, but she doesn't have a record of coming through in a clinch. Even now, with a triple axel, she has major issues with the rest of her program that keep her out of the top flight. Or, if you want to flip this, a skater as experienced as Mirai *should* have been able to beat Polina Edmunds at Nationals that year. For that matter, she should have been able to place better than eighth at the Rostelecom Cup that season. The following year, she slid down to tenth in Nationals thanks to that infamous FS. Can you imagine if she'd delivered a FS like that at the Olympics? It could have happened. Just as a comparison, Gracie Gold's "awful" performance at Nationals last year landed her in sixth place.

Or, as you say below "Let the competitive results speak for themselves." Mirai's, that year, spoke for her. The hard truth is that she will never be a consistent skater. Ever. That means she'll have moments where she thrills skating fans, but she's not going to be treated by the skating federation the way she would if she were more reliable or known for delivering in a crunch. I wish her the best of luck and brilliant programs, but she's the *last* skater who should be given a pass over another skater. She's just too erratic.

 

[klutzy]

It's the music. One is ballet music by a great 20th century composer; the other is a somewhat insipid film score to a cartoon.

That said, I think Bradie's is a well-choreographed piece that works for her and tells its story--the tick-tock section helps. Also *she* clearly likes it and that's a big plus.

And it's not Moulin Rouge, Carmen or Swan Lake. So props for that.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

It's the music. One is ballet music by a great 20th century composer; the other is a somewhat insipid film score to a cartoon.

That said, I think Bradie's is a well-choreographed piece that works for her and tells its story--the tick-tock section helps. Also *she* clearly likes it and that's a big plus.

And it's not Moulin Rouge, Carmen or Swan Lake. So props for that.

And then there's the 2015 live action Disney film "Cinderella" which is what Bradie's using for her LP.

 

[charlotte14]

I can't quite find it now on GS. There was a thread recently on prerotation on lutz jumps (I think it was BoP or Sam Skwanch) where they showed in slo-mo how the very good lutz jumps from Jin Boyang or Han Yan took off straight from the toe pick without the skater spinning on the pick. The very good lutz from ladies were also shown and Yuna Kim, Liz Tuks and Karen Chen barely turned 90 deg on their pick before launching and rotating. On the contrary, the not so goo ones like Shoma, Uno and Javi were showed havin their toe pick pre-rotating at least 180 deg or more on the ice before they are totally airborne which suggested that they cheated at least half a turn on ice and had less air time rotation.

Google shows all the results very fast: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59436-Pre-rotation&p=1435318&viewfull=1#post1435318

 

[klutzy]

And then there's the 2015 live action Disney film "Cinderella" which is what Bradie's using for her LP.

Which is a version of the original animated film score. As I say, I actually think it's a good program for her, but musically it's lightweight.

 

[matcha]

Elsa is 21. She starts out as a princess in her movie.

Also Giselle in Enchanted is older, but she's not included in the Disney Princess line-up because Disney don't want to have to pay Amy Adams through the nose to use her likeness~

 

[crazydreamer]

Google shows all the results very fast: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59436-Pre-rotation&p=1435318&viewfull=1#post1435318

Some of those on the bad list don't even look like toe pick jumps in slo-mo. It's like they step/turn into the jump. Some of the "best" in the world get a 90-180 degree advantage on rotation by doing this, and it is shameful that the judges do not account for it.

Since the judge's don't, it would be helpful if commentators like Tara and Johnny would point this out to audiences in slo-mos, to put some pressure on the judges.

 

[Ender]

Some of those on the bad list don't even look like toe pick jumps in slo-mo. It's like they step/turn into the jump. Some of the "best" in the world get a 90-180 degree advantage on rotation by doing this, and it is shameful that the judges do not account for it.

Since the judge's don't, it would be helpful if commentators like Tara and Johnny would point this out to audiences in slo-mos, to put some pressure on the judges.

Those jumps are not even toe jumps anymore since they use full blade to take off. Someone joked that those technique should be called “Floop”. But many of ladies jump that way. And some men jump that way. Ironically, they still get full BV and GOE for those “toe jumps”.

I highly doubt that Tara and Johnny ever look at these bad take off in slow motion. Every time they comment it’s mostly about “pristine technique” and “like landing on a soup”. Needless to say, poor the skaters with good take off technique.

 

[jenaj]

Men's skating is a different issue than Ladies because of the quad. And Jason Brown *did* go to the Olympics that year. Polina Edmunds would have had international experience if the US had sent her to Junior Worlds after she won the Junior US title, which would have given her some senior assignments.

Mirai always has her ups and downs. It's great that she has a loyal fan base, but she doesn't have a record of coming through in a clinch. Even now, with a triple axel, she has major issues with the rest of her program that keep her out of the top flight. Or, if you want to flip this, a skater as experienced as Mirai *should* have been able to beat Polina Edmunds at Nationals that year. For that matter, she should have been able to place better than eighth at the Rostelecom Cup that season. The following year, she slid down to tenth in Nationals thanks to that infamous FS. Can you imagine if she'd delivered a FS like that at the Olympics? It could have happened. Just as a comparison, Gracie Gold's "awful" performance at Nationals last year landed her in sixth place.

Or, as you say below "Let the competitive results speak for themselves." Mirai's, that year, spoke for her. The hard truth is that she will never be a consistent skater. Ever. That means she'll have moments where she thrills skating fans, but she's not going to be treated by the skating federation the way she would if she were more reliable or known for delivering in a crunch. I wish her the best of luck and brilliant programs, but she's the *last* skater who should be given a pass over another skater. She's just too erratic.

I don't see the distinction between men and women. Polina hasn't turned out to be consistent, either. She lucked into Worlds in 2015 because Karen was too young. The USFSA bet in on an unknown to be their future. They lost that bet.

 

[labgoat]

Also Giselle in Enchanted is older, but she's not included in the Disney Princess line-up because Disney don't want to have to pay Amy Adams through the nose to use her likeness~

Lets not forget Nancy Kerrigan's Beauty & the Beast