2017 Skate Canada Challenge

[4everchan]

omg.. not another scary lift??? there's beauty and the beast (ballet) on tv.. maybe i should just watch that instead... those guys are hot, strong and half nude... and well the music is good lol

Wow, Kirsten was smiling. 1/2Lo jump combo?! Did that last lift count? SBS jump issues but the throws were good as was the death spiral for KM-T/MM.

 

[TGee]

Here are pre-novice pair winners Brooke McIntosh/Brandon Toste's SP to "Sirtaki" that had them in 2nd with 29.75 points: http://dai.ly/x548djl
And their FS, which had them in first with 49.26, for a total of 79.01: http://dai.ly/x549knn?start=663

Their coach is Andrew Evans, who used to be Julianne Séguin's partner.
I think they're super cute and talented too. Both are skating singles as well right now.

Who knew a 2Tw2 could be adorable....?:hap93:

And again kudos to all the Pre-novice pair teams and their coaches who made for an event that was a very unscary pleasure to watch!:2thumbs:

 

[4everchan]

okay.. i am going to watch benett and MTM2.0... wish me luck finding them

 

[SarahSynchro]

Who knew a 2Tw2 could be adorable....?:hap93:

And again kudos to all the Pre-novice pair teams and their coaches who made for an event that was a very unscary pleasure to watch!:2thumbs:

Oh dear, are pre-novice pair events usually scary to watch? :hopelessness:

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

They should ideally be working on SBS triple jumps for the SP. They do a 3T+2T+2T in the FS so I'll just be quiet and look

.

It is not allowed in junior short program.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

The Georges-Ethier competition is essentially a subsectional for the pre-novice , novice and junior ladies. Only the junior ladies compete in 1 group there. The pre-novice and novice ladies are separated into several groups and the top 96 pre-novice, top 40 novice and top 24 junior go on to sectionals. The pre-novice and novice qualify on their TES.

You were implying they were not competiting against each often. This is one opportunity. Are you looking for events where there is only one group? It would be very difficult with over than 200 pre-novice ladies...

As for the US versus Canada, I am well informed... That is said, it is good info for other Goldenskate members.

 

[SarahSynchro]

At first I was a bit sad to find out Julianne and Charlie have abandoned their Skokiaan short program, as I really liked it. However, last year I was obsessed with their Cirque du Soleil SP and I'm ecstatic to hear they've brought it back! It'll be amazing to see it at 4CCs and Worlds, since injuries ended their season after nationals last year, they never really got to give that program the mileage it deserves.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

The problem with the Boys/Eddy siblings is that she can't jump at all. She often struggles to even rotate a double flip. And obviously those issues will relate to the throws as well. They always had a great twist though.

He cannot jump as well. I have more faith in her future jumping abilities than his. She has charisma and speed. With a good jumping coach, she could become a very great pair skater.

She is obviously focusing more on singles as she won the Quebec sectional competition and has added a loop to her singles.

Nope. And she had been on and off with the loop for two years. It's not that brand new. She is back tomaingles since she switched coaches. Gauthier and Marcotte encourage their skaters to do a singles session per day, in the days where your world champions do SBS triple lutz...

 

[TGee]

Oh dear, are pre-novice pair events usually scary to watch? :hopelessness:

No, but some GS colleagues who have found watching some of the seniors teams from countries with less depth in pairs scary, and asked for reassurance yesterday when we encouraged them to take a look at our up and coming pairs...

While we do see the occasional failed pairs element, it's clear that all of these young skaters are in good hands with their coaching teams.

And this is so important as Skate Canada encourages sections without significant pairs programs to develop in this area.

 

[TGee]

You were implying they were not competiting against each often. This is one opportunity. Are you looking for events where there is only one group? It would be very difficult with over than 200 pre-novice ladies...

As for the US versus Canada, I am well informed... That is said, it is good info for other Goldenskate members.

While I think that Nadster has a point that large fields with numerous flights with many groups each mean that the top skaters may not see each other directly at the early competitive, I see different issues as the challenge for the women's program in Quebec.

So much competition from a very young age as seems to be popular in Quebec favours the early developers, and can shut out those who are latest in peak growth and puberty. But skating, like gymnastics and diving, favours in he long run the girls who are latest in peak growth and puberty....less early polish, but achieving much higher specialized technical skills before their growth spurts.

Sport Canada and Skate Canada are posting the science on this, but it will mean a major shift in thinking. More training and less competitions in the earliest years, focusing on tech skills over pretty polished skating, to ensure the triples start to be trained within the window.

NB Peak height velocity in girls hits on average at about 11.5 years, but can be as early as 8.5 or as late as 14 or even older as we see in the Russian ladies.

 

[TGee]

I wanted to raise a cheer to note that we have two days of SC Challenge 2017 to go and there have already been over 6000 views on this thread!

So good to know there is interest in the future of Canadian skating!!!

 

[4everchan]

watched benett: i like that he is doing 4t in short and 4s in the long... trying to develop both jumps

too bad nam withdrew from this... i feel he needs some mileage with his programs... but too soon from nhk i guess

celestino : i have a soft spot for him but he has a lot to do jump wise....

how many qualify for nationals????

pairs...

MTM2.0

i think it's smart for them to do the 2a-1/2l-3S... when they don't pop it. (i mean popped the axel but the timing was great for a combo... and of course no turn out please)...

i don't understand their layout though... why finish with two lifts when that's their weakness? he must be dead and then he needs to lift back to back? nope...

doesn't make sense to me... people have been talking a lot about ostiguy not being good enough for brasseur.. but really... at this point is marinaro really a good enough partner for kirsten? i know she's had a concussion and that they are just starting to get back but I don't see where they can get from here to where mtm 1.0 ever was...

on top of the weak lifts and twist....they still use the 2 easier throws... gives them a low BV no room for error...

Okay i am done... too tired to watch anymore.. fell a sleep three times in MTM2.0 LP and had to rewind it

 

[Mango]

I'm so glad to see that you guys like Brooke and Brandon too. I watched them at Thornhill and I was just was so happy. Former pairs skaters make good coaches, it seems. Bruno, Andrew, Bryce...

Okay i am done... too tired to watch anymore.. fell a sleep three times in MTM2.0 LP and had to rewind it

That is some good honesty. Totally agreed about KM-T/MM's layout. They need to move lifts earlier into the program. I'm not sure what people think of Michael, but his lifting in the 2nd half is hard to watch. Maybe he just needs some time. How long after a concussion can you start training lifts again? He may be really out of practice. Bruno looking at him in the kiss and cry like "What did you do dude?"

Chiquita are the rules at QC sectionals different than at Challenge/Nationals? They actually did a fantastic 3T+2T+2T at Championnats A. But the combo at Challenge...yeah. The Boys-Eddy siblings had a rough FS and still beat Brasseur/Ostiguy. On one hand I'm happy SC is not inflating them to high heaven. On the other I'm concerned. Maybe they're just having a off competition. The strange thing though is that I expected Justine to be tired from double duty (singles & pairs). But it was Mathieu who made mistakes. Well, Matte/Ferland and Walsh/Michaud look ready to take the top two spots at Nationals so we won't need to worry about B/O at Junior Worlds this year.

TGee if what you're describing is true then Canada needs to move to a format similar to Japan's. Where levels are split not by skill, but by age. So pre-novice would be equal to Japan's Novice B, for skaters under 10 years of age, and novice would be equal to Japan's Novice A, for skaters 11 & 12. Then when you hit 13 you have to skate junior. But are most pre-novice skaters under 10 years old? I think they're more likely to be juvenile skaters at that age. Well, regardless of how they split it if they do it by age then it will make the girls up their TES before they have to skate junior. I don't think we'll see those teen aged novice ladies doing only doubles.

I so want to believe that Marjorie and Zach could hit that score in an international event. I kind of wish Skate Canada could send their junior ice dance top 5 (after the FDs) to an international event in February. Just to see if they could score the same internationally, and who deserves those 2 spots for JW. Well, I should say, who deserves the second spot. L/L are safely in first.

 

[ancientpeas]

Surely while KMT was off with the concussion MM should have have been working on his strengthen and conditioning? and his jumping? He scares me. I really think he's going to drop her hard one of these days and so it doesn't make for enjoyable skating for me. I'm going to need to feel confidence in MM's ability to do the lifts and twist before I'm comfortable watching them. And the program is boring. I wish she'd chosen Mervin to be honest. Or just stayed with Dylan for this quad. At least neither of those guys make me think they are going to drop her on her head.
Reagan and Jones looked good to me. They are coming along. They are certainly an attractive looking pair with their long lines.
Super rough outing for R/W. Falls on the jumps, problems in the spins and a weird fall from him. But I think this team has a lot of potential and time to iron out the kinks.

Too bad about S/B not skating but I guess with the GPF they have bigger fish to fry. The other team didn't skate the long?

 

[TGee]

TGee if what you're describing is true then Canada needs to move to a format similar to Japan's. Where levels are split not by skill, but by age. So pre-novice would be equal to Japan's Novice B, for skaters under 10 years of age, and novice would be equal to Japan's Novice A, for skaters 11 & 12. Then when you hit 13 you have to skate junior. But are most pre-novice skaters under 10 years old? I think they're more likely to be juvenile skaters at that age. Well, regardless of how they split it if they do it by age then it will make the girls up their TES before they have to skate junior. I don't think we'll see those teen aged novice ladies doing only doubles. .

Actually, quite the opposite! :noshake:

Regrets that I'm not expressing this very well...

The sports science is telling us that strict age based systems favour early developers which is exactly the WRONG thing for the acrobatic early specialization sports like gymnastics, diving, and figure skating.

The science says that you want the late developers to be encouraged because they are the ones most likely to achieve the elite level skills. But they are also less likely to have as good coordination etc. at early ages, so technical benchmarks tied to early ages actually weed out those the system most needs to retain.

If a country has a very genetically homogeneous population where on average you could say that you want to target late developing girls with peak height velocity (PHV) at say 13 years instead of 11, you could keep novices from competing until 13. But when a population is genetically diverse, even the average vs late vs early differ by ethnic group. And then we have the issue of the ISU age breaks being absolute.

So Skate Canada is trying to work around that while moving to a biologically paced system.

We are currently moving from an age based system to one that reflects biological development level. We want coaches to be aware that flexibility and jumps need to be developed very young in girls relative to their expected time for PHV.

But that means, as in gymnastics and as in the Russian ladies program, coaches need to start looking for the girls from families that on average mature later. We want the girls who may be relatively behind at 10, but have another 4 to 5 years to get the tech. And coaches need to help their families understand that even if their girls aren't progressing as fast, they have long run potential. On the other hand, the coaches need to be honest with families so that they understand the real prospects for a girl who has been doing well but who has finished growing by 10, and hasn't got a triple.

---------------------------

Here's a short piece from Sport Canada's Sport for Life info on developmental/biological age.

http://canadiansportforlife.ca/ten-key-factors/more-developmental-age

 

[TGee]

Too bad about S/B not skating but I guess with the GPF they have bigger fish to fry. The other team didn't skate the long?

I suspect that Julianne Séguin and Charlie Bilodeau wanted to take advantage of Challenger to give the Cirque du soleil SP a competitive outing before using it in the GP Final...

Wonder if they always planned to withdraw...

 

[olayolay]

Yeah, Alicia Fabbri's gonna need a taller partner. At least she has lots of time to find one.

 

[jlmart]

Stephen Gogolev is in first with a score of 76.24. Six left to skate

 

[TGee]

Stephen Gogolev just scored 76.24 in the junior men SP.

3A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lo with +GOE, STSQ3, 2 level 4 and 1 level 3 spins.

Stephen will have his 12th birthday this month I believe.

BTW, regarding the discussion below, this does NOT imply he is an early developer. If anything he seems on the small side for age, and may have a great deal more time remaining to lay down greater specialized skills before peak growth velocity. Just truly exceptional.....

 

[4everchan]

that's higher than the senior SP.... and actually higher than some of the flawed senior SP we saw on the GP this year... good job Stephen.