2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating

[lariko]

At last the word was spoken - Valentin Piseev, the honorary president of RusFed, explained why men's discipline is lagging behind in Russia:

https://iz.ru/868988/valentin-piseev/masterstvo-na-prokat

Apparently the problem is that men are coached by different coaches and don't come under pressure of a day-to day internal competition (read: a-la Eteri's camp) so the solution is obvious: to bring them all together, let them fight against each other and see what happens.

He also made a promise which sounds more like a thread ''in some cases where the results are awaited for too long, there should be some radical measures taken''


Send them all to Siberia to toughen up!!!

Oh, boy. That’s it, he got it! The lenient attitude towards its athletes is what Russia had been known for for sooo long, right? Time to send all the boys to Eteri or at least threaten them regularly with being replaced by 15 yo girls if they don’t pull their socks up...

And, yes, training them above the polar circle on natural ice can only lead to a podium sweep. The sprints across the Bering Strait every time the quad did not turn out... facepalm.

 

[Tutto]

Oh, boy. That’s it, he got it! The lenient attitude towards its athletes is what Russia had been known for for sooo long, right? Time to send all the boys to Eteri or at least threaten them regularly with being replaced by 15 yo girls if they don’t pull their socks up...

And, yes, training them above the polar circle on natural ice can only lead to a podium sweep. The sprints across the Bering Strait every time the quad did not turn out... facepalm.

 

[Edwin]

No, there is some truth in his exclamation: athletes need competition and a competitive training atmosphere.

The idea af a national training camp each season to bring everyone together is practiced in many sports. Mostly team disciplines though, but also sports with an individual character will benefit.

A permanent national figure skating training and preparation center?

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

At last the word was spoken - Valentin Piseev, the honorary president of RusFed, explained why men's discipline is lagging behind in Russia:

https://iz.ru/868988/valentin-piseev/masterstvo-na-prokat

Apparently the problem is that men are coached by different coaches and don't come under pressure of a day-to day internal competition (read: a-la Eteri's camp) so the solution is obvious: to bring them all together, let them fight against each other and see what happens.

He also made a promise which sounds more like a thread ''in some cases where the results are awaited for too long, there should be some radical measures taken''


Send them all to Siberia to toughen up!!!

He should take note of Karoly's camp.
Oh wait....

 

[Edwin]

He should take note of Karoly's camp.
Oh wait....

Karoliy's Camps are a thing of the past I hope and never to be repeated again, ever, in any sport anywhere.

 

[flanker]

Oh, boy. That’s it, he got it! The lenient attitude towards its athletes is what Russia had been known for for sooo long, right? Time to send all the boys to Eteri or at least threaten them regularly with being replaced by 15 yo girls if they don’t pull their socks up...

And, yes, training them above the polar circle on natural ice can only lead to a podium sweep. The sprints across the Bering Strait every time the quad did not turn out... facepalm.

Well, mothers will probably soon scare naughty boys: "If you won't be a good boy, I shall send you to Eteri."

 

[lariko]

No, there is some truth in his exclamation: athletes need competition and a competitive training atmosphere.

The idea af a national training camp each season to bring everyone together is practiced in many sports. Mostly team disciplines though, but also sports with an individual character will benefit.

A permanent national figure skating training and preparation center?

I have an inkling that the Russian figure skaters have a dose of competitive pressure that could only be rivalled by that experienced by their counterparts slightly to the East and South. Not sure about the remuneration/prestige, but at a guess... not as high?

Also, well, the gentlemen have to stay in the game later and longer, so breaking psychologically maybe more of an issue.

On a serious note, I just did not like the sentiment that if the results are too long in coming, let’s take drastic measures. I like the athletes with the long shelf life more than the policy of finding the next lightest and tiniest kid they could find between the Gulf of Finland and Kamchatka.

 

[LRK]

Trying to find the Next Big Thing as quickly as possible, and piling on the pressure and expectation as much as possible and as early as possible, hasn't exactly worked wonders as yet. The solution, obviously, is to add more of what already isn't working. Naturally.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I mean, they are already counting the days for Samsonov to turn senior. And I hope Eteri does something about his leg-wrap soon enough, because the moment he grows it's going to kill his fast rotation. Other than that, no surprise there. But how can people even think that the atmosphere in Russia is not one of fully-fledged competition all year round? The guys are killing themselves with jumps they can't even land, and daring to do programs that they surely can't compete with any level of consistency. What else do they need? Oh well, more pressure, I guess. That has been working wonders.

 

[ladyjane]

I'm feeling to be a bit of an anomaly here, but I felt the Russian men didn't do too bad at all. Their only problem (most of them) is inconsistency. Well, we've seen that happening with others in all disciplines too. Not just Russian men. But to be fair: Andrei did his job in all competitions. No medals but still a decent showing wherever he competed. Mikhail won a short at Europeans, and was 6th at worlds, Alexander became the runner up at Europeans and only had to let one of the legends in the sport get in front of him. Yeah, there were some negatives (poor Maxim) but on the whole, most federations would be pleased with such results. It's only the past succeses (Yagudin, Kulik, Pluschenko and Urmanov) that make so many be derivative now. No medals perhaps, but still pretty solid.

 

[lariko]

I'm feeling to be a bit of an anomaly here, but I felt the Russian men didn't do too bad at all. Their only problem (most of them) is inconsistency. Well, we've seen that happening with others in all disciplines too. Not just Russian men. But to be fair: Andrei did his job in all competitions. No medals but still a decent showing wherever he competed. Mikhail won a short at Europeans, and was 6th at worlds, Alexander became the runner up at Europeans and only had to let one of the legends in the sport get in front of him. Yeah, there were some negatives (poor Maxim) but on the whole, most federations would be pleased with such results. It's only the past succeses (Yagudin, Kulik, Pluschenko and Urmanov) that make so many be derivative now. No medals perhaps, but still pretty solid.

Yes, I mean, from the national POV, Canada dropped down to one, and I by whatever reason experience no burning need to expend the Internet space on a tirade about how hopelessly decent&unremarkable Nam is. Messing is the most entertaining human on skates. I have no desire to count down to Gogolev’s 16’s birthday or start worrying about his Germanoslavonic projected growth rate...

I figure that Russians that could replace their firstboy at a drop of a hat with a kid that gets into top ten, while worrying about not sweeping the other three disciplines have a Russia-specific problem.

No amount of pressure is going to make anyone sprout golden wings...

 

[bloomies20]

Russia is just looking for a quick fix for the Mens skaters. Doesn't it seem like every top male skater has been crushed by the weight of expectations since Yagudin and Plushenko? Nothing like putting more pressure on them as a solution.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Russia is just looking for a quick fix for the Mens skaters. Doesn't it seem like every top male skater has been crushed by the weight of expectations since Yagudin and Plushenko? Nothing like putting more pressure on them as a solution.

Too true! It's what ruined Artur Gachinski's career and it's so dumb that the Russian Figure Skating Fed can't seem to learn from it!

 

[Edwin]

FFKKR funding from the Sports Ministry most likely depends on successes achieved in either discipline.

Figure skating being a relatively expensive sport facilities and personnel wise, FFKKR needs a continuous stream of successes to keep the government money coming their way.

So that's probably why there is a large turnover in skaters every season. But since the number of young and teenage boys that compete in figure skating is very much smaller than girls, the adult men are required to stay longer on their blades, right?
I suspect it gets boring after a while, when you are the only adult skater at your rink, have other desires in life and perhaps other responsibilities too.

Hence the idea of a national training camp might not be so bad after all for the men. I think it will do all parties good, keeps everybody on their toes and best behaviour.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

If they would try to nurture the talent and improve the skaters without putting unnecessary pressure on them it would be good. But i bet this is a way for TAT to spread her unnecessary and unwanted opinions, for her and the federation to play favorites, support only the "rightful" skaters of Moscow and speak badly in press after the camp about every skater who doesn't take to their opinion and choreography....

Like look how even the former skaters who should know better (Plushenko and Yagudin) are talking about the male skaters. Especially funny i find when some female skaters who didn't get but little success at the adult level and are struggling with a lot of problems themselves are talking about Kolyada (yup, i speak about Radionova and Leonova here).

With a constructive and positive atmosphere such a camp could be great. But Russian federation, Piseev, TAT and constructive and positive?

 

[Edwin]

TAT here, TAT there, TAT left, right and center, TAT everywhere.
I do wish they get rid of her, for she is a relic of the past and an obstacle in the path of progress.
Her patriotic and one sided comments and conservative opinions IMO belong in the past.
It is time for FFKKR to rejuvenate and for Perviy Kanal to find a younger, contemporary anchor person for their FS broadcasts.

TAT was a ice dancer, right?
So she feels she has credentials to criticize on males singles other than being the resident busybody?

 

[coldblueeyes]

I think it will do all parties good, keeps everybody on their toes and best behaviour.

Keep who on their toes and best behavior? Because from all the top men, pretty much all of them worked their butts off these past seasons. Results might not have been what was expected, but at no point they stopped training and wanted to up and leave for the holidays--with a few exceptions.

Kolyada got bronze at Worlds and GPF last season, and this season he got free trips to the hospital two times already, yet he still competed the most among the top men, and ranked the best at Worlds. Samarin got a silver at Euros, decent results during the GP season, but he's not been known to be any better at dealing with pressure, and his crazy layouts, hence what happened at Universiade/Worlds. On the other hand, Lazukin had very modest results during the first half of the season, but still managed to put down decent skates in three competitions in a row by the end of the season. Kovtun for his part seemed to be on an upward trajectory, but he's still Kovtun, what else can you expect from him. And lastly, Voronov was the best Russian skater during the first half of the season, as it's been the case even last season, but his results during Nats didn't help him back then, and this year with an injury, his season was over.

The guys are putting in the work, they are out there doing the best they can. It might not be what the fed wants, but maybe they should have more attainable goals? Especially when it comes to their burning desire for multiple quads. It's one thing to make a montage of your beautiful quads in training, but a whole other thing to compete them--and I'm talking mostly about Kolyada and his landed quads and 3A combos from training, which never really amounted to anything in competition.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

. It's one thing to make a montage of your beautiful quads in training, but a whole other thing to compete them--and I'm talking mostly about Kolyada and his landed quads and 3A combos from training, which never really amounted to anything in competition.

Do we have such a montage with Kolyada? I saw a lot with Aliev and Samarin, but none of Kolyada! Normally when he is in public practice he hardly shows what he can... Show them

 

[coldblueeyes]

Do we have such a montage with Kolyada? I saw a lot with Aliev and Samarin, but none of Kolyada! Normally when he is in public practice he hardly shows what he can... Show them

Not a montage per se, but there are a bunch of training videos of him doing his three quads, and then a 3A-eu-3S he wanted to add to his programs before his stay in the hospital during Nats. And I didn't want to bring other skaters here for obvious reasons.

 

[anonymoose_au]

TAT here, TAT there, TAT left, right and center, TAT everywhere.
I do wish they get rid of her, for she is a relic of the past and an obstacle in the path of progress.
Her patriotic and one sided comments and conservative opinions IMO belong in the past.
It is time for FFKKR to rejuvenate and for Perviy Kanal to find a younger, contemporary anchor person for their FS broadcasts.

TAT was a ice dancer, right?
So she feels she has credentials to criticize on males singles other than being the resident busybody?

Pairs actually, but I gotta agree...her comments regarding other skaters physiques are way overboard.

Although now I'm wondering just how old TAT is, she's gotten be in her 70s by now surely?