2024 Europeans: Men's thoughts?

[TontoK]

The backflip could be construed to say to his competitors, "hey, I can throw away two points intentionally, and I'm still not worried about losing to you." While it may be true, it's a little insulting.

On the other hand, it was obviously true, which may say a bit about the state of men's skating in Europe in general. As has been pointed out, he didn't "push the sport" when he was facing Ilia or the top Japanese men.

 

[el henry]

Probably a little arrogant because the win still wasn't 100% assured and a crash on the backflip would have dragged his score down even more.

My reaction to it was to laugh not get upset. It is pushing the sport forward too. People get upset when the sport is pushed forward.

I watched Terry Kubicka do a backflip. At the Olympics. "Legally". In 1976. I'm still not seeing where a move I first saw in competition 47 years ago pushes the sport "forward" .

But as I said in my first post, hey Adam's gotta do Adam. And I would like to hear what Adam has to say in French, maybe he misspoke, I am willing to hear more.

I do not get upset at all by progress: by the most beautiful and creative of spins, new and creative choreo and step sequences and most of all by the progress in blade to ice skills that makes figure skating the sport that it is and pushes the sport forward. Who could be upset by that?

 

[Skating91]

I watched Terry Kubicka do a backflip. At the Olympics. "Legally". In 1976. I'm still not seeing where a move I first saw in competition 47 years ago pushes the sport "forward" .

But as I said in my first post, hey Adam's gotta do Adam. And I would like to hear what Adam has to say in French, maybe he misspoke, I am willing to hear more.

I do not get upset at all by progress: by the most beautiful and creative of spins, new and creative choreo and step sequences and most of all by the progress in blade to ice skills that makes figure skating the sport that it is and pushes the sport forward. Who could be upset by that?

You make good points.

 

[cailuj365]

I thought the back flip was effective as part of the choreo sequence, but it would have been more of a statement and a thrill had he actually had a better skate. I also don't get how it really pushes the sport when we've seen it done for decades now by several skaters during exhibitions. It's not like it's a completely new element. I would rather see the quad axel get higher BV than the back flip become a legal element in competition. If it becomes legal, I could also see a scenario where many people do mediocre back flip attempts and replace actual moves in the field and choreography to give enough time to set it up. It could eventually lose its wow factor and become unoriginal over time.

Selevko was such a nice surprise. I loved seeing the mutual support of the Selevko brothers in the stands during their skates. Both the obvious concern from Aleksandr's skate when Mihhail was skating, and then Mihhail's happiness when Aleksandr got his FS scores.

Matteo's skate was all quality. Great end to his season.

 

[DancingCactus]

I like the backflip. I don't see how it is more dangerous than some other elements, so whatever.
He wouldn't be able to afford to do it at World's but that is hardly his fault, is it? How many skaters have there been in the history of the sport who were able to do 4+ quads, among them 4Lz and do some other amazing stuff? Not many. I think the European men are actually stronger than a few years before.

 

[2vjoe]

Adam Siao Him Fa defends European title

2024 European Figure Skating Championships: Men Adam Siao Him Fa of France defended his European title on Friday night in Kaunas, Lithuania. Aleksandr Selevko took the second spot on the […]

www.goldenskate.com

I was so inspired by many of the men's programs. Selevko really brought it and I hope he can stay consistent has he as so much potential! Siao Him Fa really fought but owned it!

And Samoilov is on his way up!

Hopefully Frangipani can let go and focus on worlds!

What are your thoughts on the Men's event?

Totally agree about Selevko! Hoping he can continue in this trajectory.

 

[lariko]

I dunno, so many skaters are doing rando cartwheels, so now we have rando backfips. It also carries a penalty of -2 unlike the cartwheel. If Adam wants to eat it, let him eat it. if more of them will start doing it in their search of signature moves...well, ISU might put a bigger penalty on it or allow it. Then the appeal will be about as much as a cartwheel. You can do it, sure.

 

[sadya]

Since the forbidden backflip is being done in competition, will we have the sitspin on knees Candeloro used to do? I have a faint memory of him doing it in competition even after it was forbidden, or is that a false memory? If people start doing sitspins on knees, what will the deduction be? Of will they make that legal now? There are slides, perhaps knee spins?

Not sure if I like the knee spin, but it was original (I think?) and I never was a fan of Candeloro, but did enjoy his 1998 LP (my favourite was his Euros performance that season).

Philippe Candeloro FRA - 1994 European Championships LP​

Philippe Candeloro FRA - 1994 European Championships LP

QB : 1st, SP : 7th, LP : 4th, 5th placeJan. 17th-23rd, Copenhagen, DEN

youtu.be

Perhaps we could have a separate thread to discuss what we think now of some forbidden elements from the past.

Back to topic: I wasn't amused by the backflip in competition either for reasons others have already stated. I sometimes rewatch the FS of Siao Him Fa during the GP series, I enjoyed that performance better than the one here. But what an exciting competition it still was!

And I finally realize who Frangipani reminds me of: Adrian Brody.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nice competition by Fa, Selevko and Rizzo!

Regarding the backflip in the routine I get what he means by pushing the sport. He’s normalizing moves that are even illegal elements. Skaters do moves where their body is temporarily inverted/upside down/facing the ceiling (like Aymoz’s aerial or Malinin’s butterfly twist). Doing a backflip in a competitive program isn’t new - doing a backflip in a competitive program at a prominent competition after attempting that many quads though?! Kudos to it.

The funny thing is that the ISU might make illegal elements a greater deduction if skaters can still win with them. But they won’t penalize errors or sufficiently reduce prescribed PCS thresholds if skaters commit multiple major errors.

 

[Seven Sisters]

With apologies to Selevko, I thought the best moment was Rizzo facing down the prospect of this being the last skate of an injury-shortened career, by delivering that beautiful, emotional skate to Fix You—bit of irony there.

If this proves to be the last time we see you compete, Matteo, this is the one we will remember you by.

 

[gsk8]

To be clear, I'm not a "hater" of the back flip, but it doesn't seem appropriate to do in competition. It's an illegal element (in competition) and I think it sends a negative message?

But that's just me being a boomer

 

[4everchan]

People are so quick to deem a skater arrogant! How about he knew that with the elements he brought to the table he would have a comfortable advance? Even if he didn't skate particularly well, he chose to add a measure of fun (recklessness maybe) to his performance. Not my thing, if I am honest but I do not see arrogance as the motivator. Adam is a performer and like all successful skaters has a healthy dose of sef-assuredness. This is imo what Kevin is mostly missing these days: self-doubt won't bring you to the podium.

If you are referring to me I said : i don't like arrogance but I didn't say that Adam was arrogant. It's a nuance that is important to clarify. A move can appear cocky or arrogant. It can give that impression. That doesn't mean the human IS arrogant.

Pushing the sport : I think Adam does it tons with his step sequences for instance. I think he should be advocating for better reward of everything legal that he does with his blades on the ice, rather than Bonaly it up.

As I said, Adam is my second favourite skater at this point (Uno is my favourite). I don't like him less because of the backflip. It won't make me like him more either but I just think that accepting to take a deduction on an illegal move sends the wrong message to his competitors and fans. His intentions may be noble, the perception though, is something else.

 

[peepsquick]

If you are referring to me I said : i don't like arrogance but I didn't say that Adam was arrogant. It's a nuance that is important to clarify. A move can appear cocky or arrogant. It can give that impression. That doesn't mean the human IS arrogant.

Pushing the sport : I think Adam does it tons with his step sequences for instance. I think he should be advocating for better reward of everything legal that he does with his blades on the ice, rather than Bonaly it up.

As I said, Adam is my second favourite skater at this point (Uno is my favourite). I don't like him less because of the backflip. It won't make me like him more either but I just think that accepting to take a deduction on an illegal move sends the wrong message to his competitors and fans. His intentions may be noble, the perception though, is something else.

I wasn't targeting you or anyone specifically @4everchan ... just reacting to what I read in a lot of posts. Thank you for differentiating between the action and the skater. Most people do not. I am not particularly wooed by his decision to do the backflip but I think that given the number of quads he brought to the performance and the fact that only one skater was left after him, he took a very calculated risk, not an "arrogant" one. Worlds will be a different matter. I do not sense an upward curve ...
I love Shoma as well and I hope he can finish the season in beauty.

 

[rabidline]

Regarding the backflip in the routine I get what he means by pushing the sport. He’s normalizing moves that are even illegal elements.

If Adam really means it as something to push the sport, then in my opinion he should have made the backflip an official part of his FS program choreography this season, and did it in every FS in every competition he entered this season, regardless of how he did and scored in the SP, and take all the deductions.

He didn't, and we can see which competitions where he didn't do it, even when he skated a cleaner FS than at Europeans.

I appreciate the backflip as an emotional, joyful release for Adam after navigating a tricky big competition as a huge favorite for the title. And I'm happy to see it appreciated by the crowd. But Adam doesn't do backflips when Ilia, Shoma and Yuma are skating in the same competition with him, so I don't see where he's pushing the sport beyond getting his well deserved exposure as a social media viral sensation.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

I don't see the problem with the backflip, he has points to spare, so go for it dude.

I remember medvedeva used to do an extra 8th triple at the end of her program, just because she could and had no real competition

 

[Anna K.]

So I guess I am the only one who initially mistook Adam's backflip for a legit part of the program that organically fitted in the musical build at the end and later discovered with surprise that, no, there hasn't been a rule change regarding backflips.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I like the backflip purely for publicity. Instagram blew up, and it attracted lots of non skating fans. But part of that was due to the fact it's illegal and he did it anyways.

Regarding difficulty - I know some people who can do backflips of varying quality, some of them haven't landed all double jumps. It's not difficult, just dangerous to get wrong (and for me was quite jarring in the performance, almost breaking the 4th wall. But that might just be down to lack of prevelance of backflips)

 

[Skating91]

It's probably not much more dangerous than many pairs elements

 

[4everchan]

It's probably not much more dangerous than many pairs elements

I am not a skater but i would imagine that some pair elements are more dangerous based on the collateral damage a mistake can create.

 

[noskates]

Kurt Browning had to quit doing the backflip because he had a back injury resulting from it. It is dangerous. and I believe I was the first to use the word "arrogant" and I haven't used that word for a skater since Plushenko retired. I think an "in your face" move that is legitimately illegal isn't exactly a warm and friendly nod to your competitors. It sends a negative message.