2018 Skate America Ladies Short Program

[yume]

Most of scores are low but not a bad event. Prettt skates, no many falls. I agree with PCS placements. Satoko and Kaori delivered the best.
But the TES..... It always amaze me to see that in an event with strict panel, where almost everyone get dinged by URs calls, Satoko gets no carrots. Her URs issues are not really that bad then.
Some were really robbed on GOEs.

 

[SXTN]

I am disgusted by the GOE for Satoko. She performed double jumps.

I am so sorry for all the other skaters in this event who actually jumped and got carrots and lowballed GOE.

 

[Interspectator]

I just finished watching the Japan broadcast which focused mostly on Samodurovna and last group.

Understandably, there is a lot of discourse on Satoko's jumps and the scoring thereof, but I just want to say, how about that musicality? How about those spins, that flow and movement of the upperbody to the music? Skating skills, emotion and patience with the music and lines that I could watch for days and days and days. That was the highlight of the competition so far for me.

I don't agree with the way Satoko jumps. -Neither does Satoko... that's why she's trying to change it. I didn't see much improvement this time around. Looked like the usual kind of jumps to me. JMO. So, yes, I'd ding her Flip for sure and get the GOES down to 0 on most of her jumps...
But I'd also give her the kind of PCS that would rival that of world champions and Olympic champions. Skaters should be scored on what they put on the ice.

Satoko Rant Over.

Kaori is so good! But this music is just not her. All her energy has no where to go in this muted music. The power in her skates seem to be fighting with the program. But I love to see her skate. And her smile at the end. Aaaah. Love her.

Samodurovna was a nice surprise. Young, but with potential. The program could use a little more fire and less repetitive movements of the hands, but I'm looking forward to her Free skate!

Bradie was a revelation at ACI. I still think her improvement continues apace. Perhaps the pressure of suddenly being a co-favorite at Skate America gave her nerves? She seemed to be more tentative after the first mistake. But good job keeping the mistakes to a minimum. Where she stands, she has a shot at the medals still.

Laurine is a favorite of mine, but I LOATHE 'Egyptian' styled programs. The end. Happy that she performed well though.

 

[draqq]

After watching it multiple times at x0.25 speed, I think Miyahara's 3Lz+3T is within the quarter. However, the 3F I think should have been marked <. I do see pre-rotation on her jumps where she does about 50-75% of a turn while she's still picking on the ice, but until the technical panel cares about pre-rotation, it's only the quality of the landing that matters.

 

[draqq]

What can I say... the tech panel's work was unfair... because Satoko did UR her jumps visibly... The judges scores were weird.... giving Polina -4 for that outstanding 3Lz3T is a crime to the sport! How come and UR jump is -4? Isn't that too much? Not to mention UR which are not visible in real skate...
Is it so hard to stipulate the rules and judge accordingly? Why does someone give +1 and another one giver -4... What is this?
Kaori is the real winner today.

The -4 was indeed weird. Maybe the American judge saw a weird landing that didn't happen? That said, the -4 gets nixed since it's one of the two lower scores for GOE on that jump.

 

[yume]

I just finished watching the Japan broadcast which focused mostly on Samodurovna and last group.

Understandably, there is a lot of discourse on Satoko's jumps and the scoring thereof, but I just want to say, how about that musicality? How about those spins, that flow and movement of the upperbody to the music? Skating skills, emotion and patience with the music and lines that I could watch for days and days and days. That was the highlight of the competition so far for me.

I don't agree with the way Satoko jumps. -Neither does Satoko... that's why she's trying to change it. I didn't see much improvement this time around. Looked like the usual kind of jumps to me. JMO. So, yes, I'd ding her Flip for sure and get the GOES down to 0 on most of her jumps...
But I'd also give her the kind of PCS that would rival that of world champions and Olympic champions. Skaters should be scored on what they put on the ice.

Satoko Rant Over.

Kaori is so good! But this music is just not her. All her energy has no where to go in this muted music. The power in her skates seem to be fighting with the program. But I love to see her skate. And her smile at the end. Aaaah. Love her.

Samodurovna was a nice surprise. Young, but with potential. The program could use a little more fire and less repetitive movements of the hands, but I'm looking forward to her Free skate!

I'm all for giving Satoko 35+ PCS. She has the skating that deserve that kind of score. I'm all for for praising her qualities and her wish to improve her jumps.
I'm just not for scoring her like she has no flaws on jumps and as if she was the best jumper. Her scoring 73+ in SP is not a problem. It's her scoring that with 39 TES, the best TES that is the problem. Scoring that with 35 TES and 38 TES would have been more accurate.
I just want that scores show the flaws and qualities of the skater. And not show that he's the best everywhere when it's not the case.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm all for giving Satoko 35+ PCS. She has the skating that deserve that kind of score. I'm all for for praising her qualities and her wish to improve her jumps.
I'm just not for scoring her like she has no flaws on jumps and as if she was the best jumper. Her scoring 73+ in SP is not a problem. It's her scoring that with 39 TES, the best TES that is the problem. Scoring that with 35 TES and 38 TES would have been more accurate.
I just want that scores show the flaws and qualities of the skater. And not show that he's the best everywhere when it's not the case.

I think we agree. :agree:

 

[zounger]

I liked Bradie's music and program. A bit unfortunate about the loop combo, but whoever tries loop combos has my biggest admiration. They are risky as hell. Her final combination spin goes very well with the music and can be a wow factor when the program will be clean. She also looked a liitle slower than usual.

 

[TheBallerina]

Some random thoughts after watching the ladies SP:

1. Sofia! Sofia! I was so delighted to see her perform so confident at her first senior GP; she's a great skater and this 3rd place after SP makes me so proud of her. Sofia has the capability to skate clean in the FS, so she has definitely the chance to keep her spot on the podium and that would be a great accomplishment for her. Great job, go Sofia, get that medal! :clapper:

Satoko's program is beautiful, her airy movements are sublime so she 100% deserves the highest mark on PCS, no doubt about it, maybe in some components I would have liked to see even a higher mark. BUT: if the tech panel was so strict with other skaters, during the entire competition, they should have been with Satoko, too. It's not fair to her competitors.

Kaori was great, she had such a confident skate! About Bradie...the 3Lz+3Lo is a very tricky combo, you need a tough mental to be able to land it in competition, because the slightest axis deviation or insecurity will compromise it. I am sure she is able to land it in training, but she needs the same level of confidence in competition, too. Otherwise, I love her program choice, very original and this style realy suits her.

I am very sad for Polina and Loena..:sad21:

 

[Tolstoj]

Judging for the TES had to be like "let's forget all the rules and praise only the skaters we love", otherwise i've soo many questions about Satoko TES.

At some point today i'll post a thread about dissecting and analyzing Satoko Miyahara's jumps (i was planning to do yesterday but then my internet stopped working), because this has been a recurring theme on selected events, and i'm shocked there are so many youtube videos and discussions on the internet about other skaters jumps, but barely any buzz about Satoko, which is one of the most questionable jumper maybe ever (considering she is a top contender), you have everything here:

- wrong edge (flip)
- prerotations
- underrotations
- blade assist (lutz)
- awkward free leg position on the landing (lutz)

Even if you give a pass to all of this, still i can't understand the GOE when the first bullet for those is "very good height and very good distance" and Satoko has neither of those, or "very good body position" when Satoko on the 3F is like \, not straight at all, or again, the ugly landing position on the lutz.

If we want to be precise, according to the rules when the prerotation is that clear (as it is on the flip) should be called as cheated take-off and that's a downgrade.

That plus the outside edge, technically that should have been a 3Fe <<.

 

[chloepoco]

Well, that didn’t take long for all the Satoko bashing to start.

 

[Tolstoj]

Well, that didn’t take long for all the Satoko bashing to start.

It's not bashing, at least mine is just confusion, because i see the skater and i see none of the rules getting applied.

Why judges forgive everything to her but at the same time decide to apply everything for the rest of the field? i don't understand.

If you want to give a pass (and you shouldn't, otherwise why these rules exist?) at least do it for every skater, and not just the one you like the most.

I can even understand things like the status of a skater, but still it's hard to give a pass to soo many mistakes.

 

[yume]

Honestly, i'm shocked to see Marin with 30 TES. When Satoko has 39. I get that Satoko has higher BV and Marin lost some points on spins, but i thought the difference would be like 3-4 points.

 

[zounger]

Everyone was afraid of the PCS manipulation but looks like TES will be the winner.

 

[mikeko666]

Changing rules means nothing if rules are not applied to all competitors equally. It looks like the tech panel applied last season's rule only to Satoko.

 

[largeman]

At some point today i'll post a thread about dissecting and analyzing Satoko Miyahara's jumps (i was planning to do yesterday but then my internet stopped working), because this has been a recurring theme on selected events, and i'm shocked there are so many youtube videos and discussions on the internet about other skaters jumps, but barely any buzz about Satoko.

Huh? Are you looking at the same “internet” as me?

If we want to be precise, according to the rules when the prerotation is that clear (as it is on the flip) should be called as cheated take-off and that's a downgrade.

Unfortunately, that’s not how the current judging system/standard works. The best bet on the application of the “cheated takeoff” rule is when someone actually does a toe axel where the “skating foot” takes off forwards (which we rarely see). If you want to apply it to any toe jump that has 180 degrees of prerotation based on the picking foot takeoff point, you will be looking at downgrading at least 80% of 3Lz and 3F jumps done by ladies today.

Of course, Satoko’s 3Lz and 3F are not just 180 degrees prerotated... they are easily 270 degrees prerotated, or even worse. My point is there is currently no rule you can ding such jumps with and that’s the issue.

 

[Tolstoj]

Huh? Are you looking at the same “internet” as me?



Unfortunately, that’s not how the current judging system/standard works. The best bet on the application of the “cheated takeoff” rule is when someone actually does a toe axel where the “skating foot” takes off forwards (which we rarely see). If you want to apply it to any toe jump that has 180 degrees of prerotation based on the picking foot takeoff point, you will be looking at downgrading at least 80% of 3Lz and 3F jumps done by ladies today.

Of course, Satoko’s 3Lz and 3F are not just 180 degrees prerotated... they are easily 270 degrees prerotated, or even worse. My point is there is currently no rule you can ding such jumps with and that’s the issue.

I mean you go on youtube and the most popular rants on figure skating are about Medvedeva's flutz, blade assist on Shoma's quads, Sotnikova vs Yuna... from the same 2-3 channels. But everyone stop complaining about the judging when it comes to Miyahara which has even bigger issues in my mind, i don't get it.

180° prerotation is acceptable, but 270°+ is almost like one revolution done on the ice.

But again, even if you pretend she has no issues, what about the GOE? no height and distance, no good landing position, no good position in the air, but she gets +3 anyway.

 

[mikeko666]

While I take the fact that the current judging trend couldn't care less about pre-rotation, I still can't guess a justification that Satoko's 3Lz+3T received GOE comparable to Kaori's 3F+3T. The difference between them should be more obvious when you watch them live than on TV or PC screen.

 

[largeman]

I mean you go on youtube and the most popular rants on figure skating are about Medvedeva's flutz, blade assist on Shoma's quads, Sotnikova vs Yuna... from the same 2-3 channels. But everyone stop complaining about the judging when it comes to Miyahara which has even bigger issues in my mind, i don't get it.

180° prerotation is acceptable, but 270°+ is almost like one revolution done on the ice.

But again, even if you pretend she has no issues, what about the GOE? no height and distance, no good landing position, no good position in the air, but she gets +3 anyway.

On these very forums there were threads created regularly complaining about her jumps starting in 2015-16... Jumpamatron videos and gifs were dedicated to her jumps after every competition... Here’s one from me showing one of the more extreme offenses: https://imgflip.com/gif/20psz6

After a while, I (and some others who were vocal about this since the beginning) just ran out of things to say, I guess

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I missed this one, but how does Satoko have no URs when literally almost every other skater has at least one? How does this happen?