2021-22 US Ice Dance

[labgoat]

H/D and C/B look to be virtually interchangeable this season, as there is no clear US No. 1

I am beginning to wonder if this is a good thing. Keep them close so that whichever one hits higher levels at any given event can take the lead.

 

[dancelion21]

I am beginning to wonder if this is a good thing. Keep them close so that whichever one hits higher levels at any given event can take the lead.

It may be an issue for the bronze medal race against G/P. I'm not sure USFS or Marie-France has the political clout to keep both American teams ahead of G/P when all of Skate Canada's energy is focused on pushing G/P to bronze. Whereas if they picked one team to push, I feel reasonably confident that IAM can keep the American team in the bronze medal position.

 

[labgoat]

Unfortunately I couldn't watch the competition, but I'm amazed that no one here is commenting about Green & Parsons being 4th at Skate Canada, well ahead of the Brits (though it looks like they underperformed?). Did anyone watch and have something to say about the programs?

I think you'll find our comments in the Skate Canada thread.

 

[chuckm]

It may be an issue for the bronze medal race against G/P. I'm not sure USFS or Marie-France has the political clout to keep both American teams ahead of G/P when all of Skate Canada's energy is focused on pushing G/P to bronze. Whereas if they picked one team to push, I feel reasonably confident that IAM can keep the American team in the bronze medal positio

Funny, I thought that Ice Dance medals went to the teams that skated best on the day. The idea that a federation can "push" their skater onto the podium seems a bit shady to me.

 

[ucrgirl]

Funny, I thought that Ice Dance medals went to the teams that skated best on the day. The idea that a federation can "push" their skater onto the podium seems a bit shady to me.

Shady but it seems true. (Or it seems like a plausible explanation to me.)

 

[moonvine]

Funny, I thought that Ice Dance medals went to the teams that skated best on the day. The idea that a federation can "push" their skater onto the podium seems a bit shady to me.

No. No they don’t. Not at all. If they did, I would enjoy ice dance a lot more.

 

[moonvine]

Shady but it seems true. (Or it seems like a plausible explanation to me.)

It’s both shady and true.

 

[dancelion21]

in the Rhythm Dance at NHK, Chock and Bates scored a personal best of 86.02, only 0.31 lower than Sinitsina/Katsalapov and 4/7 judges had them in first place in the rhythm dance. This is the highest rhythm dance score among the North American ice dancers so far. This is great news for Chock/Bates, and if they skate well in the free dance, an upset is possible.

Also minor side note, but the tech box went a little insane during their rhythm dance. Madison's PSt was entered as a PStLW instead of getting a level, then the tech caller typed in a circular step which they didn't do at the time, a curve lift, and then an invalid curve lift before the tech box just froze. They thus had an incredibly long and nervy wait for scores as the tech box has to fix itself.

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

skatingscores.com

 

[labgoat]

in the Rhythm Dance at NHK, Chock and Bates scored a personal best of 86.02, only 0.31 lower than Sinitsina/Katsalapov and 4/7 judges had them in first place in the rhythm dance. This is the highest rhythm dance score among the North American ice dancers so far. This is great news for Chock/Bates, and if they skate well in the free dance, an upset is possible.

Also minor side note, but the tech box went a little insane during their rhythm dance. Madison's PSt was entered as a PStLW instead of getting a level, then the tech caller typed in a circular step which they didn't do at the time, a curve lift, and then an invalid curve lift before the tech box just froze. They thus had an incredibly long and nervy wait for scores as the tech box has to fix itself.

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

skatingscores.com

I noticed something on SinKats curved lift that was different from test skates. Nikita supported Vika at the waist partially obscured by the skirt (which was new). Is this him just protecting his back or does this change the level or value of the lift in any way.

Also can you comment on the height differential between Chock & Bates as to how it might affect a teams speed and compare both teams speed. Do differing heights affect speed or tracking?

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

I noticed something on SinKats curved lift that was different from test skates. Nikita supported Vika at the waist partially obscured by the skirt (which was new). Is this him just protecting his back or does this change the level or value of the lift in any way.

Also can you comment on the height differential between Chock & Bates as to how it might affect a teams speed and compare both teams speed. Do differing heights affect speed or tracking?

The fact that Madi is so small does impact speed but allows them to have more innovative lifts.

 

[theblade]

Madi is both petite in stature and lightweight with small, defined muscles (I've met her in person, thus seen her up close in relation to my kid's proportions). It does impact the physics of the lifts that Evan can achieve with her. (That being said, she appears "big" due to her personality and confidence.) What's interesting about Evan is that he is tall and rangy, but seems to have the lean strength that I often associate with athletes who specialize in rock climbing. He is a tremendous lift partner; always lifting Madi with confidence and an ease that doesn't feel forced. (Some guys on the ice really look like they're hoisting their partners up - it's so important to develop lifts that a pair can successfully execute with a deft touch. I like the lifts that the Italians and the Brits do.)

As for speed, I've seen some diminutive ice dancers with tremendous speed and power. As if they were born with it and got the technical training to fully exploit their power of the blade. I've also seen some tall, slow skaters. Guess it just depends.

With that score at NHK, Chock and Bates must feel tremendous personal momentum. Between the French and Russian teams (ostensibly battling for gold) it will be interesting to see what the American and Canadian teams can do to impact this (along with the Italians).

 

[labgoat]

Madi is both petite in stature and lightweight with small, defined muscles (I've met her in person, thus seen her up close in relation to my kid's proportions). It does impact the physics of the lifts that Evan can achieve with her. (That being said, she appears "big" due to her personality and confidence.) What's interesting about Evan is that he is tall and rangy, but seems to have the lean strength that I often associate with athletes who specialize in rock climbing. He is a tremendous lift partner; always lifting Madi with confidence and an ease that doesn't feel forced. (Some guys on the ice really look like they're hoisting their partners up - it's so important to develop lifts that a pair can successfully execute with a deft touch. I like the lifts that the Italians and the Brits do.)

As for speed, I've seen some diminutive ice dancers with tremendous speed and power. As if they were born with it and got the technical training to fully exploit their power of the blade. I've also seen some tall, slow skaters. Guess it just depends.

With that score at NHK, Chock and Bates must feel tremendous personal momentum. Between the French and Russian teams (ostensibly battling for gold) it will be interesting to see what the American and Canadian teams can do to impact this (along with the Italians).

I wondered when tracking on different lobes, if the smaller partner often feels like they are chasing the other. Marie-France would've have had a similar problem. Is there the perception that the smaller one is weaker? Most of their competitors are closer in size. Is Madi faster or slower than say Kaitlin Hawayek or Lilah Fear? I've seen posts suggesting the much smaller girls are hidden behind the guys so you can't see they are weaker. It may be true in some cases and unfair for others since you can't change your height.

 

[rinkside_user]

Sorry in case it was already asked but do I understand correctly Chock/Bates are technically in the GPF and chances are only mathematical that they won't make it? Papadakis/Cizeron and Sinitsina/Katsalapov will surely win their respective events, 2nd can be Stepanova/Bukin, Guignard/Fabbri, and Gilles/Poirier but not all three of them, obviously - which means one of these 3 teams will have lower ranking than 2 silvers and not make it - thus C/B are in. (If S/B will be second, they will have 2nd and 3rd places and they are out, if they are 3rd, they will have 2 bronzes and they are out.) Right? Please somebody confirm, thanks!

 

[dancelion21]

Chock/Bates scored 124.76 in the free dance at NHK after Evan had a fluke fall at the very beginning of the program on a transition. This is a higher FD score than what H/D got at Italy last week even with the -1 fall deduction. Their total score was 210.78, which is higher than the scores that H/D got at Italy or SkAm, but about 0.2 lower than what G/P got at Skate Canada.

Sorry in case it was already asked but do I understand correctly Chock/Bates are technically in the GPF and chances are only mathematical that they won't make it? Papadakis/Cizeron and Sinitsina/Katsalapov will surely win their respective events, 2nd can be Stepanova/Bukin, Guignard/Fabbri, Gilles/Poirier but not all three of them, obviously - which means one of these 3 teams will not make it and C/B are in. Right? Please somebody confirm, thanks!

C/B are not mathematically in the Grand Prix Final, but in all reasonable scenarios, they will be in the Grand Prix Final.

I believe only if both S/B win their event would C/B be squeezed out of Grand Prix Final since 1+3 is worth more than 2+2. However, that seems incredibly unlikely when S/B are competing against P/C and G/P at IdF.

 

[rinkside_user]

C/B are not mathematically in the Grand Prix Final, but in all reasonable scenarios, they will be in the Grand Prix Final.

I believe only if both S/B win their event would C/B be squeezed out of Grand Prix Final since 1+3 is worth more than 2+2. However, that seems incredibly unlikely when S/B are competing against P/C and G/P at IdF.

That's exactly what I meant and what I calculated, thank you. I also edited my post in the meantime to make it clearer but yeah, exactly my argument. Thanks!

 

[Seven Sisters]

I wondered when tracking on different lobes, if the smaller partner often feels like they are chasing the other. Marie-France would've have had a similar problem. Is there the perception that the smaller one is weaker? Most of their competitors are closer in size. Is Madi faster or slower than say Kaitlin Hawayek or Lilah Fear? I've seen posts suggesting the much smaller girls are hidden behind the guys so you can't see they are weaker. It may be true in some cases and unfair for others since you can't change your height.

I don’t think the relative placements depend on height, they depend on which partner is the stronger technical skater. Naturally it is in every team’s best interest to have the stronger skater in front of the weaker one facing the judges as they do their technical elements.

It’s also very telling when a team places their most difficult elements in a corner of the rink as far away from the judges as is decently possible. This kind of screams that they are not so confident in what they are doing

 

[dancelion21]

In additional ice dance news, the Olympic channel will be doing a series on six of the ice dance teams at IAM! Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue will both be featured in the series, which premieres on November 23. This will certainly be an insightful look into the training environment at a school with so many top teams.

https://twitter.com/Olympics/status/1459465060070432768

 

[Lutzedge]

Madison Chock fell in the past at 4CC. Evan fell here at NHK. But luckily for both of them, they weren't on scored elements.

 

[dancelion21]

Madison Chock fell in the past at 4CC. Evan fell here at NHK. But luckily for both of them, they weren't on scored elements.

I'm hoping that they got their mandated fall out of the way. There seems to be a pattern that every two seasons, C/B will fall on something ridiculous. Of course the infamous fall at the 2018 Olympics in the 2017-18 season, Madi falling on nothing at 4CC in the 2019-20 season, now Evan falling on nothing at NHK Trophy in the 2021-22 season. Hopefully they can be clean from this point on in the season!

 

[ManyCairns]

Even though Evan got tripped by an invisible alien at NHK, C/B's free is really growing on me! I hope they can regain their National title and do amazing at Olys and Worlds. Go Madi and Evan!