2023 Skate America: Men's Thoughts?

[throw_triple_flip]

A more sensible Ilia Malinin is a real threat. But still beatable.

I think Nika Egadze should use Vladimir Livintsev's choreographer.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Did not even know Skate America had happened. Feels like the promotion was worse than ever. No videos on ISU. Not even clips, and not much social media presence; normally things would normally pop up.

You must be in a geoblocked country. I watched via a VPN as there was no way to watch it in my country otherwise.


Maddeningly, the ISU website and social media were still claiming that it was available on Eurosport, when it wasn't as another company (who aren't showing it either!) bought the rights instead.

 

[lariko]

I'm not sure that's the case at all. He's been pretty adamant that his intended focus will be improved components and clean programs, at least early in the season. He's left the door open for jumping upgrades as the season progresses.

If anything, I'm sure that the powers (especially NBC) WANTED him to do the 4A. At any rate, the NBC clips I saw brought it up every other breath, when even a token bit of research would have made it plain that he wasn't doing it here.

He is adamant about it, because of the endless underscoring he was getting with his jumps. I would much rather see what nobody else does, than he lets go of it in favor of more choreo. The guy's jumping ability is out of this world, and seeing it live is amazing. I am sad they can't just let him medal with jumps. He should outscore everyone with them, period. His spins are better than pretty much everyone's in this event too. The kid is amazing and 310 is an underscoring compared for how much outside the normal range even of the top 5 he is. The height of each jump, the ease with which he does them, the beauty of air position, basically, if that's not 5/5 GoE, I don't know what the heck they even want!

 

[Arriba627]

Ilia can do incredible things in the air (what was that barrel roll thingy???),

If I understood correctly, Ilia invented that move and calls it the"raspberry". I guess Malinin means raspberry? (Someone please correct me if I have this info wrong?)

 

[Jeanie19]

He is adamant about it, because of the endless underscoring he was getting with his jumps. I would much rather see what nobody else does, than he lets go of it in favor of more choreo. The guy's jumping ability is out of this world, and seeing it live is amazing. I am sad they can't just let him medal with jumps. He should outscore everyone with them, period. His spins are better than pretty much everyone's in this event too. The kid is amazing and 310 is an underscoring compared for how much outside the normal range even of the top 5 he is. The height of each jump, the ease with which he does them, the beauty of air position, basically, if that's not 5/5 GoE, I don't know what the heck they even want!

I agree with you on this His 4A should be scored higher. It's amazing. His jumps and spins are so great that he should just focus on programs that match the beat of the jumps. I don't think he should focus on more choreography.

 

[lariko]

If I understood correctly, Ilia invented that move and calls it the"raspberry". I guess Malinin means raspberry? (Someone please correct me if I have this info wrong?)

Yes, his last name means Raspberry. So you can anglicize his name as Elijah Raspberry

 

[lariko]

I agree with you on this His 4A should be scored higher. It's amazing. His jumps and spins are so great that he should just focus on programs that match the beat of the jumps. I don't think he should focus on more choreography.

YES! That's what I am trying to say. He did it in gala, and it was perfect. His lutz should get 5s too, because it is so effortless, there is no prep, and it's just mind boggling that it doesn't. His jumps, his speed, his spins, his flexibility, all of it is great. He should be able to win easily on focusing on that, not getting 2s on his 4Lz, because 'oh, it's easy for Malinin'. And his 3A from spread eagle is an epic poem.

 

[labgoat]

Yes, his last name means Raspberry. So you can anglicize his name as Elijah Raspberry

Super fun fact.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I agree with you on this His 4A should be scored higher. It's amazing. His jumps and spins are so great that he should just focus on programs that match the beat of the jumps. I don't think he should focus on more choreography.

But the quality of that quadruple axel is variable. The one at Worlds rightly got less GOE than the one he landed at Skate America 2022.

 

[TontoK]

He is adamant about it, because of the endless underscoring he was getting with his jumps. I would much rather see what nobody else does, than he lets go of it in favor of more choreo. The guy's jumping ability is out of this world, and seeing it live is amazing. I am sad they can't just let him medal with jumps. He should outscore everyone with them, period. His spins are better than pretty much everyone's in this event too. The kid is amazing and 310 is an underscoring compared for how much outside the normal range even of the top 5 he is. The height of each jump, the ease with which he does them, the beauty of air position, basically, if that's not 5/5 GoE, I don't know what the heck they even want!

I agree with you that his jumps are incredible, and so are most of his spins (I think the sit position could be better... but whatever).

Ilia's going to win plenty of competitions. It's always dangerous to predict outcomes in a fickle and injury-laden sport, but we all probably see World and Olympic medals... maybe titles... in his future.

But if he wants to be an all-time great, he's going to need both technical ability and improved components. Winning just isn't enough to reach that level of legend. I could name off a half-dozen Olympic champions that aren't worth the bother to YouTube. I bet he wants more than that.

 

[noskates]

Wanted to add one more comment. I do think Ilia has improved incredibly in his performance skills. Saw on Wiki that he graduated from high school this year and is attending - or going to attend - The School of Dance. I think this is a really positive move on his part and I think Raf has had a big influence on his skating. At this point in time - IMO - a clean Ilia will be very hard to beat. And that's even without the 4A.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Wanted to add one more comment. I do think Ilia has improved incredibly in his performance skills. Saw on Wiki that he graduated from high school this year and is attending - or going to attend - The School of Dance. I think this is a really positive move on his part and I think Raf has had a big influence on his skating. At this point in time - IMO - a clean Ilia will be very hard to beat. And that's even without the 4A.

There are dance majors and a few dance studios at the campus of GMU (I myself took 3 dance classes there when I was getting my BS in biology).

There is a school of dance there, however, the article that was posted in his fan fest didn't say he was doing a major in it. Just that he was taking a dance class. Just for clarity.

 

[lariko]

I agree with you that his jumps are incredible, and so are most of his spins (I think the sit position could be better... but whatever).

Ilia's going to win plenty of competitions. It's always dangerous to predict outcomes in a fickle and injury-laden sport, but we all probably see World and Olympic medals... maybe titles... in his future.

But if he wants to be an all-time great, he's going to need both technical ability and improved components. Winning just isn't enough to reach that level of legend. I could name off a half-dozen Olympic champions that aren't worth the bother to YouTube. I bet he wants more than that.

He is already a legend. Chances are he will remain the only men who landed 4A.

 

[Warwick360]

You must be in a geoblocked country. I watched via a VPN as there was no way to watch it in my country otherwise.


Maddeningly, the ISU website and social media were still claiming that it was available on Eurosport, when it wasn't as another company (who aren't showing it either!) bought the rights instead.

On youtube? Or elsewhere?

But it's not just that. Just not a single clip or promo on youtube either. Great way to have the people following the sport.....I think not.

I really hope the other grand prixs won't be so strict on videos being on youtube or other social platforms.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

On youtube? Or elsewhere?

But it's not just that. Just not a single clip or promo on youtube either. Great way to have the people following the sport.....I think not.

I really hope the other grand prixs won't be so strict on videos being on youtube or other social platforms.

Yep. Youtube. Last year and the year before i could watch most of the grand prix on youtube without a VPN. But Skate America was always geoblocked. I'm hoping it's the same again this year, as watching on the youtube app on my tv is easier than messing around with my rubbish slow laptop and a hdmi cable (and i don't have to worry about an idiot dog knocking the laptop onto the floor!)

Skate Canada international might be on Dailymotion like it was last year, so there's another option for that.

 

[chuckm]

But the quality of that quadruple axel is variable. The one at Worlds rightly got less GOE than the one he landed at Skate America 2022.

That's true of a lot of triple axles landed by many of the men. But I Ilia is the ONLY one doing 4a.
I looked at the protocol for Worlds 2023, and the tech team took no deductions for the 4a. GOE is given out by the judges. How many of the judges from Worlds 2023 have even seen a 4a live?

Only one judge (LAT) gave the 4a -1 GOE. ITA gave it +3, and TUR +1. All the other judges gave it a 0.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

That's true of a lot of triple axles landed by many of the men. But I Ilia is the ONLY one doing 4a.
I looked at the protocol for Worlds 2023, and the tech team took no deductions for the 4a. GOE is given out by the judges. How many of the judges from Worlds 2023 have even seen a 4a live?
5
Only one judge (LAT) gave the 4a -1 GOE. ITA gave it +3, and TUR +1. All the other judges gave it a 0.

Sorry, that's ridiculous.

GOE is meant to be about quality. A poorer quality jump is a poorer quality jump, no matter what the jump is or how many people do it.
Judges have specific guidelines about how to judge a jump- it doesn't matter if they've not seen a quad axel before, because they know what a good quality jump is meant to look like.
He got almost zero GOE for the one at worlds because it wasn't of good quality. The one at Skate America 2022 was better, hence the higher GOE.

He already gets rewarded for trying it with the base value.

Edit. Below is a link to ISU communication 2558. Contains all the info on jump GOE. Page 9, there's a table which has the reasons for GOE reductions on elements. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...gQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0GwBlcyxS_aiu0GfCZLKai

 

[DancingCactus]

I'm probably going to summon a few people with pitch forks, but I don't think Ilia's jumps look all that beautiful half of the time. He sometimes has incredible height but something about the landings of maybe his body position just doesn't look aesthetically pleasing to me. Hell knows I never liked Nathan Chen but his jumps were prettier.

 

[moonvine]

Ilia's shown it's only a matter of time before he'll be universally recognised as the best male skater of all time. He really is something else.

I think Dick Button is the best male skater of all time. So the recognition won’t be universal

 

[moonvine]

This makes me so happy to hear, thank you for the in-person reports. Kévin has always worn his emotions on his sleeve, and to see those be happy emotions is gratifying.

At least he didn't depend on your kindness for a French flag this time, I presume . Also to see all the French flags and Pride flags in the audience after his skate.

I flew after both skates. First time I have seen him in person and it was amazing.