2023 Skate Canada: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Gilles and Poirier win fourth consecutive Skate Canada title

2023 Skate Canada: Ice Dance Canada’s Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier won their fourth consecutive Skate Canada title on Saturday afternoon in Vancouver. Lilah Fear and Lewis Gibson from Great Britain secured […]

www.goldenskate.com

What are your thoughts on Gilles and Poirier's new FD? It's supposed to show their dark side, but I could go darker

Which FD did you like the most?

It's going to be fun watching the three US teams from this event compete together over the next few years. Zingas/Kolesnik and Pate/Bye were pretty much tied in the RD with the Browns just over a point ahead.

I also enjoyed Lanaghan and Razgulajevs' "Lord of the Dance" routine!

 

[4everchan]

I enjoyed Piper and Paul's FD the most. I think it is my favourite program by them ever... even more than Evita or Vincent. I liked the juxtaposition of lyrical and sharp/dramatic movements representing how love and hate, and hate and love are coming from the same place. I was simply mesmerized and it's their first outing of the season.

I don't like Fear-Gibson's gimmicky program to Rocky. I am not sure what's so great about their elements for the judges to give such high GOE. I am honestly interested in finding more if there are ice dance tech experts here. Yes, entertaining. Yes, acrobatic... but yeah... It doesn't work for me.

The only other dance I really appreciated was Fabbri and Ayer's. The music is tacky but they are so well connected and to know that he is back from shoulder surgery and had six bolts in his bone and to see them skate like this : all my respect. I have been following them since their beginning so I have a special connection with them (call it a bias if you wish).

I am interested to follow how the rivalry within the USA teams will develop. My favourites among these 3 teams are Pate and Bye but I must be the exception here. I guess I am confused at this point as I don't have a clear favourite team among the top US contenders.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I absolutely love Piper/Paul. They are so creative. And, it's inspirational to see them continuing, especially after Piper's illness. I love their creative ideas. What a wonderful choice in Wuthering Heights (movie theme), in some ways reminiscent of their great Hitchcock program. Yet, altogether different too.

Hanretty said that some fans were comparing P/P's FD to V/M's Mahler. I wonder if they are talking about the darkness of the musical theme. Otherwise, I think each team and program standalone, and no need to make comparisons. P/P only remind me of P/P. I feel so privileged to watch them, and happy they are still skating.

I really like both of Chock/Bates' programs this season too. But with the creativity and emotion P/P bring, and with Worlds in Montreal, P/P have an excellent chance. Their scores were higher here than C/B's at SA. Knowing that programs evolve over the season, it will be incredible to see both teams at GPF and Worlds. Fingers-crossed that both teams remain healthy.

I'm not into the Italian team, so hopefully F-B/S are on point, and it looks like Fear/Gibson are coming on strong. Their FD is better than it was, and they are entertaining, but not my favorite dance programs this season.

SA and SC both had good ladies events, and outstanding dance events. SC had the better pairs competition, and SA, by a wide margin, had a better men's event.

 

[rain]

I am interested to follow how the rivalry within the USA teams will develop. My favourites among these 3 teams are Pate and Bye but I must be the exception here. I guess I am confused at this point as I don't have a clear favourite team among the top US contenders.

I think Green/Parsons are still ahead of the three teams we saw at Skate Canada. And I really like their FD this season, though others are rather lukewarm on it.

Of the three U.S. teams at Skate Canada it's no secret that Zingas/Kolesnik were by far my favourite. I thought they had the best material and "it" factor in spades. I enjoyed Pate/Bye and the Browns as well and they are all talented skaters, but I think Z/K are a cut above (though that's not how the judging went, lol).

 

[4everchan]

I think Green/Parsons are still ahead of the three teams we saw at Skate Canada. And I really like their FD this season, though others are rather lukewarm on it.

Of the three U.S. teams at Skate Canada it's no secret that Zingas/Kolesnik were by far my favourite. I thought they had the best material and "it" factor in spades. I enjoyed Pate/Bye and the Browns as well and they are all talented skaters, but I think Z/K are a cut above (though that's not how the judging went, lol).

I was on team CP but seeing them at CQÉ was a bit disappointing. Of course, it was super early in the season but Fabbri Ayer even beat them in the RD... There is something with GP that doesn't click for me. I really liked their pattern type seq in their RD at SKAM though. (opening element).

 

[4everchan]

I will add one thing about Fear-Gibson. With ice dance, there is a trajectory over the season. Some programs keep growing on us. I feel that with the gimmicks, it gets old really quickly, I have already seen them compete twice this season and I am over it. I cannot imagine how it will be come March.

 

[auser]

My favourites among these 3 teams are Pate and Bye

Haha currently watching their RD on repeat and dancing along.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yes @gsk8, the U.S. dance teams at SC were close. The Browns and Pate/Bye have improved quite a bit, especially the Browns. They were truly not at their best at 2023 U.S. Nats-- they finished in 9th place. They looked slow, and Oona especially didn't seem at her best. Her costume didn't look good on her either. But now, Oona looks better. They are both much faster, and their programs are wonderful.

The Browns were fortunate to get assigned to SA. Initially, they only had the SC assignment, but they looked good at summer comps, and were given the TBD at SA. This meant back-to-back comps, but it worked out very well for them. They rose to the occasion, and skated even better at SC, and were rewarded. I thought Pate/Bye were slightly over-scored at Autumn Classic, so it's not surprising they scored a bit lower at SC. They do have good programs, which they perform well. I was not surprised to see Zingas/ Kolesnik surpass P/B in the FD. It was the mistake by Zingas in the RD which had them behind. Had Zingas not made the mistake, Z/K may have been slightly ahead of the Browns in the end.

It is definitely going to be interesting in dance at U.S. Nats because there are way more teams than just the three at SC who are close in ability. Z/K came on strong last season, which was amazing since Zingas does not have a lot of dance experience. This year, may end up being sophomore blues for Zingas. But the U.S. judges greatly rewarded Z/K in their Nats debut (3rd in RD, and 4th overall). It was as if the judges couldn't wait to anoint Kolesnik (former World junior champion with Avonley Nguyen). It had been a long wait after the surprising Nguyen/ Kolesnik split.

What I think will be the impact of the Browns' success is more teams asking I.AM, "Can you help us on a part-time basis, while we keep our main coaches?" Because that is what the Browns did, and I.AM agreed. I.AM do not accept everyone who asks though, so they must have felt the Browns are worth helping, and it looks like bingo on all counts.

 

[kenboy123]

May Gilles/Poirier get the world gold they couldn’t get last year after a derailed season in which they were on the way to dominating…

 

[rain]

What are your thoughts on Gilles and Poirier's new FD? It's supposed to show their dark side, but I could go darker

Which FD did you like the most?

It's going to be fun watching the three US teams from this event compete together over the next few years. Zingas/Kolesnik and Pate/Bye were pretty much tied in the RD with the Browns just over a point ahead.

I also enjoyed Lanaghan and Razgulajevs' "Lord of the Dance" routine!

To answer your questions: I love G/P's new FD. It's everything. It's haunting, beautiful and wonderful.

I've already said my piece about the U.S. teams, but Zingas/Kolesnik are my favs of the three who competed here.

Found Lord of the Dance dated, but liked Footloose, lol.

Really, Piper and Paul were the undisputed stars of this show.

I'm disappointed that nobody has done any Billy Joel for the 80s rhythm dance.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think Green/Parsons are still ahead of the three teams we saw at Skate Canada. And I really like their FD this season, though others are rather lukewarm on it.

Of the three U.S. teams at Skate Canada it's no secret that Zingas/Kolesnik were by far my favourite. I thought they had the best material and "it" factor in spades. I enjoyed Pate/Bye and the Browns as well and they are all talented skaters, but I think Z/K are a cut above (though that's not how the judging went, lol).

It's really going to be a toss-up in dance at U.S. Nats, after C/B in first. I haven't heard if H/B are coming back or not. I think Christina C has improved a lot, and maybe Anthony P is in a better place after his surgery. But, other than the U.S. giving C/P pecking order status, I see C/P being behind Green/Parsons, and possibly behind Zingas/ Kolesnik (this time overall). Pecking order status may keep C/P ahead of the Browns and Pate/Bye, but the latter two teams may have better programs than C/P this season. Plus, I do not see Anthony having improved much, despite Christina looking so much better after working with Scott Moir.

Another big factor is the rivalry between Flores/Desyatov and new team, Wolfkostin/ Tsarevski (who used to skate with Flores). I like F/D better because they bring emotion, chemistry, and talent. W/T are great technicians, but I do not yet feel any great connection from them, or 'grab your heart' emotion. Whether F/D and W/T can pull up over McNamara/ Spirodonov, and Bratti/ Somerville, is going to be fascinating to watch. I do not think the latter two teams are as well-matched as the former.

While Ian Somerville is a superb ice dancer, Bratti is not at his level (plus, she seems to have grown slightly taller). Ian should have stuck with his original partner, who he grew up competing with. I loved Lorraine McNamara with Quinn Carpenter. But since Quinn retired, it's nice Lorraine found another partner. While Spirodonov has improved, he and Lorraine are not the best physical match.

Anyway, I agree with you @rain that Z/K are great and their programs are wonderful, but after the mistake in the RD, I think they were a bit tight in the FD. That's why I say, after making such a great splash in her debut with Vadym last season, Emilea will have to overcome sophomore season blues. It's amazing how fast she took to ice dance, but she's still learning and gaining experience.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

To answer your questions: I love G/P's new FD. It's everything. It's haunting, beautiful and wonderful

Edit: Sorry @rain. I see now that you are referencing Gilles/ Poirier, not Green/ Parsons.

I am glad that Green/Parsons went back to the aesthetic they are so good at. This FD looks good on them, but some fans are making inevitable comparisons to their amazing 2021 - 2022 FD. I like this FD, and I don't think comparisons are needed. But, while the new FD is lovely, it does not have the same amazing impact. But that's okay. They are trying to regain their footing after losing so much momentum last season.

While Gr/Pa are excellent ice dancers, last year's programs were too generic, which had fans buzzing in a negative way and that hurt their standing. Starting this season off with problems in their RD, was also not helpful. But, they changed it for a new RD immediately, which is interesting because they didn't make huge changes last season when they received lots of criticism for their FD being a step backward.

At this stage, I think Chock/ Bates are definitely hoping to stay for another Olympics, though they are taking it one year at a time. For Piper & Paul, I wonder if they win Worlds in Montreal whether they will retire? I suppose they may continue to another Olympics, as long as they remain healthy, which will be great to see happen. I feel like raving over P/P's new programs, but steady as we go.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I also enjoyed Allison Reed/ Saulius Ambrulevičius. I like the story concept of their FD, and they look very good together. It's so nice to see them medal. And I was touched by Allison looking up and throwing a kiss to her deceased brother, Chris (who used to skate with sister, Cathy).

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

Joining in the praise for G/P's new FD, because, wow! It was great! The twizzles coming straight out of the choreo step were so unexpected; normally you see teams setting up for the twizzles, but not here. I really like their new combo lift too. Can't wait to see the program improve over the season, and hopefully see them gain a bit more speed in places.

I don't like Fear-Gibson's gimmicky program to Rocky. I am not sure what's so great about their elements for the judges to give such high GOE.

Agreed. I complained about the insane GOE C/B got on their wobbly lift last week, but, to me, F/G's combo lift was equally unstable (and Lewis' face during the lift clearly showed he thought so too!) but they still received +3.70 from the judges, which utterly baffles me.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Piper and Paul. First obvious thing was the innovative holds they used when skating close. It felt a lot like traditional ice dance reinvented.

It was so dramatic! I thought certain parts were a choice (like stopping between the twizzles), but choreographically it all worked. And actually it fit the music well, and they regained speed nicely after. I'll have to think about whether or not I like it personally but it deserves the GOE!

The dance spin... wow, I've never seen one that creative. The lifts etc this season bought a lot of creativity that they lacked last season as well.
I can't tell skating speed across the ice (I'll need a fancam for that), but they definitely delivered here what they do best.

Do I see them challenging for a world title?
100% yes.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Joining in the praise for G/P's new FD,

I'm sure you mean P/P (Piper/Paul) not G/P (Green/Parsons).

Edit: Oh boy, G/P and the original G/P (aka P/P), are both G/Ps.

 

[Skater Boy]

I enjoyed Piper and Paul's FD the most. I think it is my favourite program by them ever... even more than Evita or Vincent. I liked the juxtaposition of lyrical and sharp/dramatic movements representing how love and hate, and hate and love are coming from the same place. I was simply mesmerized and it's their first outing of the season.

I don't like Fear-Gibson's gimmicky program to Rocky. I am not sure what's so great about their elements for the judges to give such high GOE. I am honestly interested in finding more if there are ice dance tech experts here. Yes, entertaining. Yes, acrobatic... but yeah... It doesn't work for me.

The only other dance I really appreciated was Fabbri and Ayer's. The music is tacky but they are so well connected and to know that he is back from shoulder surgery and had six bolts in his bone and to see them skate like this : all my respect. I have been following them since their beginning so I have a special connection with them (call it a bias if you wish).

I am interested to follow how the rivalry within the USA teams will develop. My favourites among these 3 teams are Pate and Bye but I must be the exception here. I guess I am confused at this point as I don't have a clear favourite team among the top US contenders.

I agree for the most part. I like G and P generally over the years. I do think they need to figure out why their pcs and goes aren't getting the mscores because considering the missed levels by Gibson and Fear it is rather "scarey" how close they are. Their FD needs work to get the GOE's and even more conviction and smoothness. Maybe it is the expectation from C and B or the days of Krylova and Bestmianova but we need more emoting from both G and P. That being said I find them m ore genuine than Chock and Bates. But honestly I don't see the judges giving it to them over C and B. After last year and the scores given to C and B I find it hard that in the big events D and B would lose. I liked all the young American teams. I am not sure who will end up on top. I do think H and B have lost a lot of ground and wonder if they really will come back or even be missed other than their fans. All these American teams have potential.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I agree for the most part. I like G and P generally over the years. I do think they need to figure out why their pcs and goes aren't getting the mscores because considering the missed levels by Gibson and Fear it is rather "scarey" how close they are. Their FD needs work to get the GOE's and even more conviction and smoothness. Maybe it is the expectation from C and B or the days of Krylova and Bestmianova but we need more emoting from both G and P. That being said I find them m ore genuine than Chock and Bates. But honestly I don't see the judges giving it to them over C and B. After last year and the scores given to C and B I find it hard that in the big events D and B would lose. I liked all the young American teams. I am not sure who will end up on top. I do think H and B have lost a lot of ground and wonder if they really will come back or even be missed other than their fans. All these American teams have potential.

Fear Gibsons were always going to be close, no matter what Piper and Paul did, because that's generally how ice dance works. The scores are almost decided in advance and worked backwards - I mean look at worlds last year, Chock/Bates getting PB with a fall.
But unless Piper and Paul make bad errors, they are head and shoulders above all the current montreal teams (apart from maybe FB/S who aren't getting the same political support). Will have to wait till GPF to see Piper and Paul vs Charlene and Marco (assuming Charlene and Marco keep it clean - NHK will be a bloodbath so any mistake could keep a team from the GPF), but with the direction the scoring is going at this stage Piper and Paul will probably be ahead (Although I still maintain Charlene and Marco have the best skating skills in the world right now).

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

utterly baffles me.

It's the old figure skating political pecking order kicking in, which is rather notorious in ice dance. A lot of times judges seem to stick with chosen teams who are good, who tend to deliver, and who have top standing.

Apparently, judges don't always take off for minor miscues that don't detract from a program. I forget which team (maybe it was Reed/Ambrulev; Edit: It was Lilah Fear, as remarked by Mark Hanretty), but there was a slight leg adjustment during a twizzle sequence, which was not marked down.

I thought certain parts were a choice (like stopping between the twizzles), but choreographically it all worked.

Yes, amazing creativity, as always, from Piper/Paul. They take risks, and it is paying off so well with this WH program. I love it. @GoneWithTheWind mentioned P/P maybe needing to work on increasing speed in certain areas. I tend not to notice their weaknesses when I watch P/P. I am just mesmerized by their creativity.

There are so many unexpected things about this new FD. That wowza, highly difficult change of direction on their curve lift near the end of the FD, is genius!!!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

"I am not sure what's so great about their elements for the judges to give such high GOE..."

This comment in regard to Fear/ Gibson, is exactly how I feel about the high GOE given to Sota Yamamoto on his jumps. While he is great in his ability to land quads, he telegraphs in a jerky way (probably his way of finding rhythm for the takeoff). Sota is certainly a hard worker and admirably ambitious, but I am not drawn to his skating. His jumps to me do not look pretty, but he gets the job done in landing quads, which judges love. It would have been great had Sota skated a clean fp, but he made too many errors. The judges gave him high GOE on his first jumping passes because they thought he was going to deliver throughout. That high GOE gave him the win.

Fear/Gibson get high GOE because they are entertaining to watch, good at what they do (they have improved over the years -- Lewis has always been very good), and they have the I.AM. magic and political backing.

I think F/G have made changes to their FD that work well. But it is not my favorite program this season. Plus, not one of the best they have done. Still, it works better than it did at the beginning of this season.