China Will Not Host ISU Events in 2018-19

[Xen]

there's been a lot of talk about this in Chinese baidu bars and such, so far it sounds like a lot bigger issue than just figure skating.
But for those who are wondering how big a deal speed skating/short track is in China, it's kind of the equivalent to badminton in the summer games.
Or, for those who still don't grasp how severe an issue that ruling was in women's team relay, let's put it this way:

Hockey-imagine about mid way through the gold medal game vs Russia, a referee calls a player on the canadian or USA team. But rather than just that 1 player being benched, the entire canadian or USA team is benched. The canadian/USA coaching team have 30 minutes to file a complaint, and they try to, only to find that the entire referee team for the match are engrossed in a giant meeting that lasts over half an hour. And when you appeal, you are told by the sport's international governing body that you ran out of time to file. And to add to the problem, when asked in a press conference, the IOC Rep says, "It's not our decision, it's up to X governing body and we don't deal with the specifics."

Well, I imagine that would go over well.

 

[Kelti]

The problem with the CHN men's judge is not only the national bias but him/her scoring way out of the "corridor" from the rest of the panel scores. Like others have said, plenty of judges are guilty of bias but they tend to stay within the margin. The ESP judge for instance was the only one to put Javi first on the SP but only by less than a point. The CHN judge ran away from the corridor and never looked back. ISU just had to single him/her out.

The issue with Chinese judge Chen Weiguang is not only due to her out of whack scoring at the Olympics, if you do a search on her judging history, she was placed on every single international competition that JIN was on in the 2017-18 season, and here is a quick summary of deviation on her scoring comparing to the actual score in these comps:

Score Deviation (SP, LP, Total)
2018 Olympics
Jin (+9.43, +23.25, +32.68)
Fernandez (-3.93, -15.85, -19.78)
Uno (-2.37, -11.69, -14.40)

2018 Four Continents
Jin (+5.13, +10.92, +16.05)
Uno (-3.78, -11.71, -15.49)

2017 GPF (Jin WD)
Chen (+2.31, +0.08, +2.39)
Uno (-1.35, -4.36, -5.71)
Kolyada (-1.92, -5.70, -7.62)

2017 Skate America
Jin (+3.46, +14.99, +18.45)
Yan (+0.71, +4.02, +4.73)
Chen (-3.24, -0.92, -4.16)

2017 Cup of China
Jin (+3.19, +13.58, +16.77)
Fernandez (-2.42, -6.99, -9.41)
Kolyada (-0.03, -7.08, -7.11)

2017 Finlandia
Jin (+6.40, +12.39, +18.79)
Zhou (+3.19, +7.72, +10.91)
Kolyada (-1.25, -3.45, -4.70)

2017 Worlds
Jin (+6.59, +7.16, +13.75)
Uno (+2.39, -14.21, -11.82)
Chan (+0.77, -5.48, -4.71)
Fernandez (-0.07, -1.85, -2.55)
Hanyu (+0.91, -1.87, -0.96)
Chen (+2.07, -2.02, +0.05)

2016 Cup of China
Jin (+4.21, +5.10, +9.31)
Chan (-1.76, -5.05, -6.81)

Honestly I'm more surprised how she did not get an investigation earlier

 

[chopinskate]

post

Wow, that's kind of hilariously bad. She can't even play a good game with the system. She does indeed deserve investigation.

 

[apple123]

The Chinese judge is not the only one. Other judges did the same or even worse. You just didn't pay attention. For example, Sharon Rogers from the US in ice dance judging. Figure skating judging has been like this for a long time.

 

[chopinskate]

The Chinese judge is not the only one. Other judges did the same or even worse. You just didn't pay attention. For example, Sharon Rogers from the US in ice dance judging. Figure skating judging has been like this for a long time.

I don't disagree. I just said that that particular judge does indeed deserve investigation. She did, however, score waaaaay out of the corridor.

I do wonder if the ISU has the same excuse to just investigate this one judge because of all the times they did it, though. The other judges might have the excuse of not being at an unbroken string of competitions where their country's top athlete was competing. But I have not looked into it at all. Even if the US judge wasn't at a string of competitions, she still likely has a history that deserves scrutiny (and the Olympic scoring was egregious anyway).

 

[xeyra]

I don't disagree. I just said that that particular judge does indeed deserve investigation. She did, however, score waaaaay out of the corridor.

I do wonder if the ISU has the same excuse to just investigate this one judge because of all the times they did it, though. The other judges might have the excuse of not being at an unbroken string of competitions where their country's top athlete was competing. But I have not looked into it at all. Even if the US judge wasn't at a string of competitions, she still likely has a history that deserves scrutiny (and the Olympic scoring was egregious anyway).

Possibly the fact they scored like this in two back to back competitions they judged on (4CC and Olys men) might have made it too obvious not to review. I remember commenting about them re: 4CC, back before the Olympics, as well.

They weren't the only ones that might have deserved a review/disciplinary action; they were just the most blatant about it.

 

[chopinskate]

Possibly the fact they scored like this in two back to back competitions they judged on (4CC and Olys men) might have made it too obvious not to review. I remember commenting about them re: 4CC, back before the Olympics, as well.

They weren't the only ones that might have deserved a review/disciplinary action; they were just the most blatant about it.

Not just two, apparently.

Agreed.

 

[Henni147]

The Chinese judge is not the only one. Other judges did the same or even worse. You just didn't pay attention. For example, Sharon Rogers from the US in ice dance judging. Figure skating judging has been like this for a long time.

I have to remember Yuzu's 4CC LP 2017 again. It appeared as if J1-J4 had been watching an entirely different program than J5-J9:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/fc2017/fc2017_Men_FS_Scores.pdf
(Esp. that yolo 3A at the end received 5x max. GOE +3. J4 couldn't agree and gave 0 lol.)

Aye, the points from the Chinese judge are questionable, but which one's is not tbh?

 

[chopinskate]

News: http://www.xinhuanet.com/sports/2018-06/13/c_1122980636.htm

 

[synteis]

We all know that for a sport based on math, the ISU really struggles with it but having a spreadsheet that tracks the deviation of judges from others at the same comp shouldn't be beyond them. Hire an undergrad in stats and comp sci, I'm sure they can set one up. And then if judges have a clear pattern of deviation (they could even have an internal cutoff for what that means!), they can ding them. But alas, that would be sensible and would involve math.

 

[synteis]

News: http://www.xinhuanet.com/sports/2018-06/13/c_1122980636.htm

Based on google translate, that sounds much more like this is something the ISU dinged them for which is surprising giving the POVs here and elsewhere.

 

[chopinskate]

But alas, that would be sensible and would involve math.

And ten extra bucks. They can't have that.

 

[Shanshani]

We all know that for a sport based on math, the ISU really struggles with it but having a spreadsheet that tracks the deviation of judges from others at the same comp shouldn't be beyond them. Hire an undergrad in stats and comp sci, I'm sure they can set one up. And then if judges have a clear pattern of deviation (they could even have an internal cutoff for what that means!), they can ding them. But alas, that would be sensible and would involve math.

Don't even need to hire anyone. I posted this earlier, but here it is again (judge deviations for 2018 Olys).

 

[synteis]

Don't even need to hire anyone. I posted this earlier, but here it is again (judge deviations for 2018 Olys).

Oh, I think you did a great job. I meant like your spreadsheet exactly but for every judge and every competition. Ideally you'd even have a spider which automatically took the data from each event as it happened and automatically assigned it. They could even use ID numbers for each judge to remove that immediate bias on the part of the person who managed it. Gosh, it could be such an elegant piece of code. I'd do it on R I think.

 

[Shanshani]

Ah, ok. I don't know how to program, but it shouldn't be a particularly difficult thing for someone who does. It's a pretty mechanical process.

 

[synteis]

Ah, ok. I don't know how to program, but it shouldn't be a particularly difficult thing for someone who does. It's a pretty mechanical process.

It absolutely isn't. I assume that skatingsscores for instance has a spider which does just that with the protocols. I mean theoretically, the data should already be on the ISU servers because I assume that it like goes from the tablet/computers that they use to a data sheet so that the protocols can then be made.

 

[apple123]

Based on google translate, that sounds much more like this is something the ISU dinged them for which is surprising giving the POVs here and elsewhere.

I guess you don't know the art of words in Chinese. There are so many subtle things among the report which point to the conflict between ISU and CSA. As far as I know, CSA wouldn't make the conflict official at the moment. I bet they have a different tone when they directly negotiate with ISU.

 

[Shanshani]

News: http://www.xinhuanet.com/sports/2018-06/13/c_1122980636.htm

My Chinese kinda sucks, so I'm not sure, but it sounds like China fed is saying that they can't host the competition because they need to prepare for Beijing (google translate confirms), both in terms of preparing the competition venues as well as the Chinese national teams (? don't really get this--why would hosting be a problem for preparing the teams. Money maybe?). It says that they arrived at this decision after careful deliberation, and then told the ISU, who understand and support the Chinese fed's decision.

 

[Xen]

The article has a part that says, the related person stated that "after a comprehensive evaluation" the "events have not been meeting the expectations/expected results of the ISU, the Chinese Ice Skating Association and the Chinese figure skating association." That and if you combine it with the earlier lines about how "2018 is a year of expanding basics" and how China will continue to "go outwards" to "fit in with the scene of international sports training"-it's pretty clear.

 

[cohkaix]

My Chinese kinda sucks, so I'm not sure, but it sounds like China fed is saying that they can't host the competition because they need to prepare for Beijing (google translate confirms), both in terms of preparing the competition venues as well as the Chinese national teams (? don't really get this--why would hosting be a problem for preparing the teams. Money maybe?). It says that they arrived at this decision after careful deliberation, and then told the ISU, who understand and support the Chinese fed's decision.

Pretty much, yes. And sounds like since the major competition venues will undergo renovations, they can't make a better coordination work for other places to uptake these major competitions. In the end the choice is to turn down hosting major events. (not sure how convincing the reason is...but finally they give some explanations)