Copyright question re: Skate America videos on youtube

[fiercemao]

I find this very annoying. Some of the 'Skate America' videos have been taken off from youtube even the videos are not from NBC etc.

The youtube gives out such explanation:
"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by U.S. Figure Skating"

Why can U.S. figure skating claim copyright even the video rights apparently do not belong to them? Does this mean US figure skating can claim copyright even it's a home made video at such event?

Confused.

 

[MissIzzy]

They have exclusive streaming rights in the U.S. Therefore it is illegal to stream any piece of the event anywhere on the net Americans might see it.
Still I was hoping they'd let it be. They seemed to for Junior Worlds last year, and this isn't going to make them very popular.
A smarter thing would be to try to monetize, so all the Skate America vids could have ads slapped next to them and stay up, but there might be complications there, since technically the foreign TV stations have a claim on them too.

 

[antmanb]

I find this very annoying. Some of the 'Skate America' videos have been taken off from youtube even the videos are not from NBC etc.

The youtube gives out such explanation:
"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by U.S. Figure Skating"

Why can U.S. figure skating claim copyright even the video rights apparently do not belong to them? Does this mean US figure skating can claim copyright even it's a home made video at such event?

Confused.

It depends on what their contract with NBC says regarding prosecution for breach of copyright. If NBC fail to assert their right, then USFSA may assert it on their behalf and at their own cost.

Ant

 

[fiercemao]

They have exclusive streaming rights in the U.S. Therefore it is illegal to stream any piece of the event anywhere on the net Americans might see it.Still I was hoping they'd let it be. They seemed to for Junior Worlds last year, and this isn't going to make them very popular.
A smarter thing would be to try to monetize, so all the Skate America vids could have ads slapped next to them and stay up, but there might be complications there, since technically the foreign TV stations have a claim on them too.

No. The videos are not from a US TV station such as NBC, it's actually from a Chinese TV station CCTV5. The videos were not uploaded from U.S. to youtube, they are viewable to people in other countries.

I find your explanation very perplexing. Any American can and might access videos on foreign countries' websites, why the hell it's illegal for people in other countries to upload a video simply because Americans can and might see it?

It depends on what their contract with NBC says regarding prosecution for breach of copyright. If NBC fail to assert their right, then USFSA may assert it on their behalf and at their own cost.

Ant

The videos are from CCTV5, not NBC.

 

[jcoates]

Youtube also pulled down all of the videos posted by "tripleaxel96' yesterday. A real shame b/c they were a tremendous resource of world, olympic, national and grand prix competitions going back to the early 80's. Most of the content was from networks that don't even cover skating anymore. Just an awful overreach of authority.

 

[fiercemao]

Youtube also pulled down all of the videos posted by "tripleaxel96' yesterday. A real shame b/c they were a tremendous resource of world, olympic, national and grand prix competitions going back to the early 80's. Most of the content was from networks that don't even cover skating anymore. Just an awful overreach of authority.

It must be US figure skating association that's been playing this stupid game.

 

[antmanb]

The videos are from CCTV5, not NBC.

It doesn't matter. Skate America is put on and funded by USFSA (is that right?) in any event one of the many ways in which they make money out of it is by selling the intellectual property rights required to broadcast the event.

Think of it this way - in order to view the event you would have to buy a ticket. Unless you pay the fee you don't get to watch it. Sounds fair enough?

Now if anybody not able to attend the event wishes to see it, it could be taped. Ok but they get to see it without buying a ticket. Fair enough? I guess as a tv figure skating fan one might say yes, as the event organiser who makes their money primarily from people seeing the event not so. Event organisers therefore sell exclusive (no-one else including themselves can broadcast) sole (the person being granted the rights and themselves can broadcast) or non-exclusive (the event organiser reserves the right to grant as many people rights to braodcast as it likes) broadcast rights to the event.

Looking at it in this way you can observe many things. The first is that selling exclusive rights to one person usually means a bigger fee since no-one else will be allowed to broadcast. You can also see that the exclusive licensee would become fairly angry at having paid a big fee for the rights and find that someone else is broadcasting it. They might then go back to the event organiser and seek some clarification that they are not in breach of their exclusive contract by licensing it to someone else.

It all depends on the terms of the NBC contract whether NBC will assert that their copyright is violated, or whether event organiser's copyright is violated.

In any event looking at the broadcast as above it should help to see that there are some parties with intellectual property rights over the broadcast and their rights are being violated.

And about the private spectator taping performances and then making them available online. I'd be almost certain that the event organiser or arena's policy (and the terms and conditions accepted in buying the ticket to attend) will clearly state that taping any of the performances is illegal.

Hope that helps a little to understand.

Ant

 

[MissIzzy]

I find your explanation very perplexing. Any American can and might access videos on foreign countries' websites, why the hell it's illegal for people in other countries to upload a video simply because Americans can and might see it?

I think most such sites belong to countries that don't necessarily recognize US copyright claims. I know Russia doesn't, so WebTV operates without worrying, and I think China may not either. But YouTube is an American website.
I, too, deeply mourned the lost of tripleaxel96, especially for the coverage of the Tonya/Nancy saga. There isn't likely to be anything like that uploaded ever again.

 

[turtle]

The entire post t

It completely makes sense to me. Icenetwork's revenue comes solely from people who pay $29.95 to watch those competitions that will not be broadcast on TV. If these people find out that the videos of the competitions will become available on youtube soon after, Icenetwork will lose a lot of potential customers. By the way I believe Icenetwork is owned by the USFSA.

 

[fiercemao]

This makes me angry. I may want to upload some Skate America videos to youtube soon to spoil US figure skating's party.

It completely makes sense to me. Icenetwork's revenue comes solely from people who pay $29.95 to watch those competitions that will not be broadcast on TV. If these people find out that the videos of the competitions will become available on youtube soon after, Icenetwork will lose a lot of potential customers. By the way I believe Icenetwork is owned by the USFSA.

It's NOT just about Americans. People in other countries can't even access icenetwork's GP events even if they pay the fees. The videos on youtube are NOT for American people alone! I'm still confused why a Skate America video uploaded from another country, let's say China, produced by CCTV5, would be taken down. If you look at youtube links carefully, they do mark something like www.ca.youtube.... or www.jp.youtube... etc.

 

[antmanb]

This makes me angry. I may want to upload some Skate America videos to youtube soon to spoil US figure skating's party.

It is obviously up to you what you decide to do but by doing so you are taking part in illegal activity. To some extent we all make these moral decisions - driving higher than the speed limit, breaching other people's intellectual property rights. Just always worth knowing all the facts when you make the decision

Ant

It's NOT just about Americans. People in other countries can't even access icenetwork's GP events even if they pay the fees. The videos on youtube are NOT for American people alone! I'm still confused why a Skate America video uploaded from another country, let's say China, produced by CCTV5, would be taken down. If you look at youtube links carefully, they do mark something like www.ca.youtube.... or www.jp.youtube... etc.

It might be (and i stress might, because as i've said all along it depends on what the contracts say) because CCTV5 were granted exclusive broadcast rights in China. The contract with CCTV5 will state this but also reserve USFSA right to grant such other licences in such other territories as it may wish and include in the definition of territory all web streaming. USFSA may then grant a further 15 exclusive licences to other broadcasters in other exclusive territories, including granting IceNetwork the exclusive broadcast rights for all internet and/or streaming.

If that is the case (and i stress the if because again it boils down to the contents of confidential contracts between the parties) then anyone who broadcasts the event (youtube in this case) is breaching another parties exclusive right to broadcast the event. IceNetwork if it is a youtube broadcast, or NBC if another US TV network decided to just run a broadcast on US TV.

Ant

 

[Tonichelle]

Realise too that it's obvious IceNetwork reads the message boards (I mean their articles are quoting people on the boards! they are reading!) and so whenever someone links to those vids it's that much easier for IceNetwork/USFSA to find them and report them. And they can find your info that much easier.
Big Brother skating style

 

[hrmsk8ngnutt]

Youtube also pulled down all of the videos posted by "tripleaxel96' yesterday. A real shame b/c they were a tremendous resource of world, olympic, national and grand prix competitions going back to the early 80's. Most of the content was from networks that don't even cover skating anymore. Just an awful overreach of authority.

I was wondering what happened to his videos. He spent a lot of time posting them. There were many rare clips such as Surya's French themed program from 91 NHK - which may have been the only time she skated it because she competed with last season's program at Skate America, Skate Canada, and Trophee Lalique, then showed up at Euros and Olympics with the bullfight themed program. And putting together all the fluff pieces from the 92 and 94 Olympics - some I didn't even catch!!! This is very disappointing. :no: :disapp:

Herm (sk8ngnutt)

 

[jcoates]

This goes beyond the USFSA (if indeed they are the culprits) cracking down on sharing content they have broadcast rights to for a recent event. Skating is a shrinking sport in the mass media market. True and even casual fans have little access to performances outside of live events if standards like this are maintained. Many people who prefer pre-CoP skating may wish to reminisce by looking at favorite performances from years past through youtube or other sources. It maintains some level of grassroots or even viral marketing for the sport.

Lord knows the networks have little interest in preserving the history of the sport if there is no profit in it for them. The fact that every major broadcast network has a claim to some competition content going back nearly 50 years means they could all do this if they wished, even if they never plan to redistribute it for broadcast or sale. The USFSA and ISU, which should be acting as the guardians of the sport , has done little to preserve and share these memories outside of the occasional videotape or DVD package (at a cost!). However, so many other memories get left by the wayside like worlds and Euros and grand prix events. Really short sighted.

 

[fiercemao]

Realise too that it's obvious IceNetwork reads the message boards (I mean their articles are quoting people on the boards! they are reading!) and so whenever someone links to those vids it's that much easier for IceNetwork/USFSA to find them and report them. And they can find your info that much easier.
Big Brother skating style

This is so disgusting. If we can identify whoever with icenetwork/USFSA did this, I wouldn't mind people digging out the history of this person and publicizing it. Dig out any dirt on this person, period. It really makes me mad.

 

[Tonichelle]

why is it disgusting if they have an exclusive contract?

it's not like this 'rule' is new to the public - photogs for years have not been able to sell their photos taken at a USFSA event due to the contracts out - they put a reminder/notice in the programs and on the tickets.

ignorance of the law/rule does not mean you should be able to bypass it.

 

[fiercemao]

why is it disgusting if they have an exclusive contract?

it's not like this 'rule' is new to the public - photogs for years have not been able to sell their photos taken at a USFSA event due to the contracts out - they put a reminder/notice in the programs and on the tickets.

ignorance of the law/rule does not mean you should be able to bypass it.

No. Again, those videos are not from any American TV station. People from other countries are a right to watch them on youtube.

 

[Tonichelle]

not if they - the international television networks - have a contract with the USFSA that says otherwise. (which I imagine they do) - and they were probably using the US camera feed, just dubbing their own commentary. Therefore it is not their exclusive property.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Youtube also pulled down all of the videos posted by "tripleaxel96' yesterday. A real shame b/c they were a tremendous resource of world, olympic, national and grand prix competitions going back to the early 80's. Most of the content was from networks that don't even cover skating anymore. Just an awful overreach of authority.

Ugh, that's terrible. They had so many great, essential videos.

Anyone remember emdiaz? That person had a ton of skating videos and their account was suspended nearly 2 years ago.

It's really horrible, people who try to erase this historical documentation.

The Skate America thing I can understand.

But, I don't see anyone trying to release a definitive DVD of the 1980 Olympics or 1990 World Championships or anything like that. The censorship is an outrage.

 

[Wrlmy]

Thanks god I subscribed to Ice Network. But what about worlds? Olympics? Do I need to wait months for NBC to release DVD package to watch great moments again? I don't understand how NBC can claim right to every footage of the event.
Although, If NBC payed that much money to ISU to such extent, that is not necessarily a bad news I suppose.