Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

[Eleanor]

I think I have finally made up my mind about P/C's programs.

Frist, the short dance. "One, two, three, bend, one, two, three, stretch" is an obsession. This program is amazing. Excellent choice of music, great costumes, funny choreography and as always, they nail the interpretation. I have no doubt this program will be a hit at worlds and one of their iconic performances.

Now, the free dance..Well, well, well, let's start with the music. I am not a great fan of the poem. I think the program would actually work better without it. Arnalds' music is so organic, crystalline and light. To me, the poem makes it heavier. I like the program as it is but IMO it could be better.
As for the choreography, I like pretty much everything. The first lift is gorgeous and once again Gabby shows an incredible ability to let Guillaume guide her. Her body is so relaxed, sharp and in unison with the music. The straight line lift is another gem. I ADORE the first position of the lift. A bit surprise by how simple they finish it. Let's see if it evolves. The stationary lift is by far my favorite moment of the program. It goes so well with the music, it has a difficult original entry with the ina bauer and Gabby's position is once again mesmerizing. The first moment I really felt something watching the program.
What I don't like though are the static choreographies in the program. It's déjà vu, it's the "vulgar" contemporary, what we are fed of regularly. I definitely don't enjoy it. Ksenia Moustafaeva worked with a Paris Opera etoile before the olympics games in Rio. She had a ball routine on In the middle. It was an interesting approach to work with a professional ballet dancer who probably danced this piece on stage. I wish they had done the same. They are world champs and the next legend of the sport. I am sure they can find a choreographer like Forsythe, Pite, Kylian, Teshigawara or others to work with them. They are not skating, they are dancing on the ice. They can surely work with non skaters to come up with a real, original contemporary work.
But overall, I really enjoy both programs. They are incredible. We are so lucky to be here to witness their glory.

 

[cuiniel]

No, the Choreo elements are all fixed at Level 1 (ie they're 'unlevelled elements') - the same as the Choreo Sequence in singles skating and pairs. They're assessed purely on how well they're performed, not on what contortions the skaters work through to show how skilled/flexible they are.



Difficulty. vs performance quality is a reasonable way to think of it. For example, in a set pattern, the level indicates how many of the key points the skaters hit - 0 is Base level, one is Level 1, two is Level 2 etc. That gives them their base value for the element. It's determined by the technical panel. The GOE is determined by the judges and indicates how well they think the skaters performed each element. With the current scale of GOE values (how many points you get for each extra GOE point), that means that a Level 2 Finnstep pattern that misses two keypoints but is performed lightly and quickly, with character and in a way that suits the music can outscore a Level 3 Finnstep that gets three keypoints out of four but is performed slowly, heavily or laboriously, or in a way that doesn't suit the music (my personal way of thinking of it is that in ice dance, the more something looks like work, the lower its GOE should be).

It's the same thing for spins, lifts and step sequences: the technical panel assesses the difficulty of each element and calls the level where one is required, and at the same time the judges assess the performance of each element independently of whatever its level might be (IIRC they don't even find out what the levels are unless something comes up for review after the end of the program?).

Thanks so much! Much obliged.

 

[Maybeyesmaybeno]

In my opinion the RD program will be absolutely great, one day, if they work really hard on the steps sequences, on the hips movements and on Gabriella’s technical precision. But there is still quite some work to refine it and make it iconic. Nevertheless, the idea is good, the program gives joy despite it is actually unfinished.

On the contrary, the FD is already quite sophisticate, even though there is still a bit of thinking to make concerning the one foot and the circular step sequences.
I don’t think the problem is to like or dislike the poem. The poem is THE BASE of the program, what gives the idea, the atmosphere and the construction of the dance. The music added is actually second in the project. If they were skating on this music alone, it would be a Build a home 2. And their ambition was much more than just showing how fluid and light, they can skate on an atmospheric music without beat or clear rhythmic section. They have already demonstrated they can do it many times, too many times maybe, since Build a home. Nobody ignores or doubts they can dance on this type of music.

You don’t have to like the poem to appreciate this dance. This is an incredible attempt to push the boundaries of moving the entire body, on the ice while skating. Moving freely and generating changes of rhythms without any help of the music is the challenge of this program. Which means, they have to use the rhythm of the words and create their own changes of rhythms. The static part of the program is essential because it shows how they are able to develop a different body langage which is no longer fluid and soft but jerky, staccato.

In fact, I really don’t understand why some are so obsessively obsessed by the poem. If the poem is good or not, if it is pretentious or not, is totally out of interest. This is the sound of the words which builds the langage of the dance. This is the meaning of the poem which gives the atmosphere and the narration of the dance. You cannot conceive the project without the poem because it is the root, the identity of this creation.

I hope when they will return to a real music piece, they stop with this sort of non music to go back and confront themselves with strong and powerful music, with all they have learned meanwhile in this process. But this year, going back to a normal “ let’s dance fluid and light on an unstructured piece of music boringly hypnotising” would be just a regression even compared to the narrative work they achieve last year on the less exciting piece of folk guitar I could expected.

 

[cocotaffy]

They danced the one foot sequence right in front of me and I thought it was gorgeous, the unison and upper body work looked great. No idea why she got lvl 2. There was a moment where I thought her toepick got close to the ice but I'm pretty sure it didn' touch it. Probably a flat edge somewhere. Maybe the Flutzes and Waxels sisters will talk about it on their podcast, they know their stuff.

It's out just scroll down a bit https://flutzescast.wordpress.com/about/

 

[Bcash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaKWR8vQsg

ISU post competition interview with Gabi and Guillaume.

 

[Gotlev]

It's out just scroll down a bit https://flutzescast.wordpress.com/about/

I'm confused.
They are totally not talking about the Italian tech controller.

It's extremely frustrating to listen to them without being able to follow all the technical stuff fully, because I feel like missing out on so much. But until yuna13 pointed out that this is the same person that created chaos at Europeans three years ago, my thoughts were exactly the same as the Fluxels's: the Italians should have been 2nd, as their levels were the best of all.

Clearly, that's coming from a perspective that levels are given in a neutral and "absolute" way: they're the objective truth that is not to be questioned.
Now there's the obvious possibility that it might not exactly be like that occasionally, and that this might have been such an occasion, given the chaos three years back with the same person. Now how can these extremely knowledgeable and fully up-to-snuff girls not know or have noticed that? It makes a big difference in making sense of these strange scores, where the team with the highest levels comes in third...

 

[yuna13]

The nationality of the tech controller is not always mentioned in ice dance event conversation.
I can't remember if the Fluxel's talked about skate canada UK tech controller but ice dance fans did talk about it. Some people thought that F/G high tech score might be because of uk's controller.

The ISU publish the nationality of the panel of judges but not of the tech panel!!
I only talked about it here cause i didn't want P/C fans to be worried. Also the performance of G/F despiste marco injury was great. i didn't wan't to bring negativity to their score cause they have all my respect and admiration to skate well in those circumstances.

Now i 'm pretty sure that the day Gabriella and Guillaume will be at a competion where David Molina is the tech controller, his nationality would be mentioned. I'm sure TSL and skating fans will talk about it. Even if he does not have Cesaro track record people will questioned his judgement.

 

[floatingworld]

https://youtu.be/3Yjdo6bVWY0

 

[dorispulaski]

Their IdF Gala
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI6bmHOQKHE

 

[Maybeyesmaybeno]

https://youtu.be/3Yjdo6bVWY0

Thanks a lot for the NBC comments.

I’m curious to hear the CBC ‘s ones. Have some doubts there are as enthusiastic.

 

[Fortuna]

Thanks a lot for the NBC comments.

I’m curious to hear the CBC ‘s ones. Have some doubts there are as enthusiastic.

If it’s Carol Lane doing the commentary you can be pretty sure the tone will be a bit snide and that she’ll take pains to point out the mistakes. Even when she comes up with positive remarks it always sounds as though she’s damning them with faint praise. I have never been able to figure this out.

 

[floatingworld]

https://youtu.be/js_uraHqNXc

 

[floatingworld]

https://youtu.be/js_uraHqNXc

 

[floatingworld]

Sorry for the double posting above. The first one did not appear immediately that I thought it failed to go through. I reposted a couple of minutes after. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to delete one through my phone.

 

[Maybeyesmaybeno]

If it’s Carol Lane doing the commentary you can be pretty sure the tone will be a bit snide and that she’ll take pains to point out the mistakes. Even when she comes up with positive remarks it always sounds as though she’s damning them with faint praise. I have never been able to figure this out.

I have noticed... even if English is not my idiom, as you’ve probably noticed (sorry), I’ve always heard “ these kids are not legitimate. In fact they are not creative or innovative. They always skate the same, the same way. They are able to skate perfectly well what they know how to skate but cannot skate anything different. Lot of fluidity but no rhythm. Lot of lightness but no feelings, no passion. Unable to tell a story.”
The very first year, Guillaume was good enough but Gabriella just intelligent enough to know how to skate with him. Mozart’s music explained the success. The “vehicule” deserved the world championship, not Gaby and Guillaume. But last year, when they finally proved they even could tell a story, she found out a new reason to minimise their work with the “brand” idea. I’m just curious to find out which kind of new perfidious case, she has found to convince herself and whoever else ready to hate them, that they are not so good.
So if you can find her friendly and impartial comment of the season, I’m curious, impatient, expecting the worse with an indulgent big smile on my face. Personal perverse but innocent pleasure.

 

[Bcash]

Carol Lane is the worst, all those backhanded compliments and barely concealable snarks, not just on P/C. But she also isn't worth our time. Don't know why CBC allows coaches of current competitors to commentate.

 

[peepsquick]

Thanks @ Floatingworld for the post! The Oly Channel commentary is from Ben Agosto and Tanith White, right? They are not quite on board with the RD yet ... IT's early days anyway and it does need some work.
Is there a commentary from them on the FD?

 

[Fortuna]

Carol Lane is the worst, all those backhanded compliments and barely concealable snarks, not just on P/C. But she also isn't worth our time. Don't know why CBC allows coaches of current competitors to commentate.

I think this apparent bias in favour of her own skaters wouldn’t be so bad or so obvious if her co-commentator, Kurt Browning, weren’t so mealy-mouthed. Although he’s a former champion and a knowledgeable resource in his own right, his comments are always very safe and never contradictory to hers. it’s almost as if he’s afraid to voice an opinion of any kind. All in all, there’s much more meaningful commentary elsewhere.

 

[Bcash]

Thanks @ Floatingworld for the post! The Oly Channel commentary is from Ben Agosto and Tanith White, right? They are not quite on board with the RD yet ... IT's early days anyway and it does need some work.
Is there a commentary from them on the FD?

What Tanith said was what many of us here have pointed out too, which is that it could gain more complexity in the actual steps, in the midline in particular but also the transitions like Tanith pointed out.

For example, after the mid-line and before the fast tempo picks up again, they were basically gliding on flat edge for about 2-3 seconds. Choero-wise I also prefer the deep lounge they did during the slow section at French Masters, in stead of the straddling lift they did here.

 

[Maybeyesmaybeno]

I think this apparent bias in favour of her own skaters wouldn’t be so bad or so obvious if her co-commentator, Kurt Browning, weren’t so mealy-mouthed. Although he’s a former champion and a knowledgeable resource in his own right, his comments are always very safe and never contradictory to hers. it’s almost as if he’s afraid to voice an opinion of any kind.All in all, there’s much more meaningful commentary elsewhere.

I agree on both points: Kurt Browning and meaningful commentary elsewhere but what we call “le grand public”, the ordinary (?) public in Canada, will not check for another commentary. That is why it is always interesting to know what the main public knows and how he is prepared to receive dancers from elsewhere. Reputation especially in dance is part of the perception, we like it or not.