IOC circulate "reasoned" verdicts

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's been demonstrated that a single scratch could appear after closing the tube too tightly. Also more that one scratch is necessary to open it. Adelina's sample has normal level of salt. Basically they have nothing that proves doping charges.

I’m not holding my breath for Mr Tygart to apologize to Adelina but it would be a nice gesture IMO.

At least the IOC is helping clear the air and publicly giving her the benefit of the doubt even if they won’t release the details as to why. These people and their secretive ways! :gaah:

 

[luckyguy]

OK, so a month later we accidentally learned the name of an athlete who was declared innocent of any involvement. Hey, I wasn't involved either. Is this news?

The indiscretion which I mentioned in my post was really a news for me. I didn't know before that the IOC never published Sotnikova's name in their press releases about doping.

 

[karne]

I truly wish Adelina would lawyer up big time and then slaughter these people in court. She was already subject to abuse and threats for years merely for the crime of skating well, and then these incompetent morons had people slandering her with doping accusations too.

Even if she's healthy, I wouldn't be surprised if she walked away from the sport at this point. The sport doesn't seem to want her, after all.

 

[lyverbird1]

Wanting and wishing something to be true and being disappointed when it's not just because you didn't like the result is kind of desperate and sad. I didn't like the result but do I want it changed on this kind of basis? Nope.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

happy for her that she's been cleared
and can own her great Olympic
performances in everyone's eyes

Anyways, I think in that event it was the corrupt judging panel everyone had an issue with

Everyone? Please speak for yourself. I saw no 'corrupt judging'. The right women won gold, silver and bronze and in the right order. Adelina was the deserving winner on the night and I'm glad she's been cleared.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Everyone? Please speak for yourself. I saw no 'corrupt judging'. The right women won gold, silver and bronze and in the right order. Adelina was the deserving winner on the night and I'm glad she's been cleared.

I'm speaking for millions of people (and that's a fact) including a lot of big names in the sport

I think you're being forcibly naive here,
At least recognise that this was and is an issue,
Is that fair?

 

[YesWay]

I'm speaking for millions of people (and that's a fact) including a lot of big names in the sport

I think you're being forcibly naive here,
At least recognise that this was and is an issue,
Is that fair?

When it comes to figure skating, "millions of people" is meaningless.

Because "millions of people" have literally, no idea how figure skating is scored under CoP/IJS. Especially the millions who only watch figure skating once every four years, at the Olympics.

Yet, those same "millions of people"... despite not knowing anything about scoring... are nevertheless convinced that "scoring is wrong", whenever their favourite skater, or their national hero, doesn't win.

The scoring might be right, or it might be wrong... the point is, they have no way of knowing which it is. They simply choose whichever suits them (and their favourite skater).

Even on these boards, where you'd expect people to be more educated - whenever people speak of under/overscoring, or "skater X should get more/less PCS" etc, and I ask them to explain why... about 90% turn out to have essentially no knowledge whatsoever about rules, level criteria, GoE bullet points, PCS criteria etc etc. And of the remainder who have "some" knowledge, about 90% do not know how ISU judges actually assess skating according to the rules criteria etc.

Consequently, there are no more than a handful of people on these boards, who I personally have found to have anything even approaching a working knowledge sufficient to make a properly reasoned argument about scoring...

 

[haha123]

cbc,bbc,espn,german commentator,Italian commentator,chinese commentator, even the russian guy who commented with TAT, Василий Соловьев
they were just lack of expertise huh?

 

[YesWay]

cbc,bbc,espn,german commentator,Italian commentator,chinese commentator, even the russian guy who commented with TAT, Василий Соловьев
they were just lack of expertise huh?

Did you create that new account, just to show how little you understood of my post?

Should I laugh, or cry?
Or both?

 

[haha123]

not so sure why so u r so mad about newbie's comment. then why dont u help a newbie understand?

 

[Mista Ekko]

When it comes to figure skating, "millions of people" is meaningless.
Because "millions of people" have literally, no idea how figure skating is scored under CoP/IJS. Especially the millions who only watch figure skating once every four years, at the Olympics.(and their favourite skater).

I think you're giving yourself a lot of credit in saying all those people are clueless
Sure, A bunch of them probably are, But the numbers surrounding that event were outstanding

In my opinion, Every person who knows skating very very well would admit
that aspects of the scoring in that event were very untraditional for the sport
at the very least, If you can't admit that then you're probably convincing
yourself because that specific win just made you very happy

 

[Procrastinator]

I think you're giving yourself a lot of credit in saying all those people are clueless
Sure, A bunch of them probably are, But the numbers surrounding that event were outstanding

In my opinion, Every person who knows skating very very well would admit
that aspects of the scoring in that event were very untraditional for the sport
at the very least, If you can't admit that then you're probably convincing
yourself because that specific win just made you very happy

Actually, Adelina's win was precisely a function of a figure skating tradition: geographic block voting. The panels were mostly Eastern European, and resulted in overinflated PCS scores by 2-3 points. That said, Adelina would probably have won or come close to winning even with a "neutral" panel. Her GOEs were all spot on and made the difference over a sluggish Yuna.

 

[karne]

The panels were mostly Eastern European,

I feel like people who make these remarks don't read a lot about the politics of the world. Quite a few "eastern European" countries really don't like Russia. So I'm boggled that you automatically think "Eastern European = Russia".

Four years ago Adelina had the skate of her life, and rightly beat a skater who, though an extraordinary talent in the past, was at that time phoning it in. I've never had an issue with this result.

 

[Ares]

Everyone? Please speak for yourself. I saw no 'corrupt judging'. The right women won gold, silver and bronze and in the right order. Adelina was the deserving winner on the night and I'm glad she's been cleared.

I know it's beating the dead horse, especially if one is a fan of Adelina (you can be not it would be sweeping generalization) but just saying it as an example. Actually for me the winner was not Yuna Kim but Carolina Kostner (by slight margin) and I did not even like Kostner in that time, I had Adelina 3rd. I thought Kim could have done more to secure her position. I can trust that there were neutral observators who thought the verdict was fair in the heat of the moment esp. as Sotnikova landed 7 triples in FS that is 1 more than Yuna Kim in her FS but once you delve deeper into this subject you find that ....

There were way too many indications that point otherwise to simply ignore but each to its own. Everything she did received extra miraculous points boost vs Europeans / GP events including non-jumps that were executed exactly the same (even rewarded extra upgrade on step sequence that is hard to grasp), and that even without going to start going in depth about her unprecedented growth in PCS (also unsubstantiated for me even she admittedly had the best skates of her career, but still you can watch her programs side to side with previous outing and you hardly see any difference bar better jumps content). Also her jumps were very generously & softly evaluated, they overlooked UR, FLUTZ, upgraded step sequence for no transparent reason as she was getting LVL3 before everytime and some judges leniently treated her step-out on top of uncalled +2 +3 across the board on many jumping passes if we focus on LP alone. And to help her even more they lowballed little bit Yuna Kim, esp. in SP. You could say that something was in the air.

Sochi Olympics were held in Russia and as we know from those multiple doping cases and their widespread ways to circumvent it - they were willing to win at all costs. The make-up of tech panel including Mr Lakerkin who should have received ban for life years ago before Sochi at least for the biggest events, and few judges being there also fishy enough for me, some of them even had previous affairs behind them. It gets very clear once you make some research, watch programs again.

Also this picture of Alla Shekhovtseva hugging Adelina after we learned that she's an OGM is well ... suggestive to say the least (one of the judges who with the most certainty gave +3 on everything she could and the most exaggerated imaginable for her - there was some leak that proved but I can't find it back unfortunately, also curiously the wife of the director of the Russian Figure Skating Fed at that time), Mrs Shekhovtseva was at every single competition in which Sotnikova participated in this very season as far as I know.

 

[MsLayback]

Actually, Adelina's win was precisely a function of a figure skating tradition: geographic block voting. The panels were mostly Eastern European, and resulted in overinflated PCS scores by 2-3 points. That said, Adelina would probably have won or come close to winning even with a "neutral" panel. Her GOEs were all spot on and made the difference over a sluggish Yuna.

Absolutely!!! And another truth- Yuna made a made a big mistake in how she ended her association with Brian Orser.

 

[karne]

I know it's beating the dead horse, especially if one is a fan of Adelina (you can be not it would be sweeping generalization) but just saying it as an example. Actually for me the winner was not Yuna Kim but Carolina Kostner (by slight margin) and I did not even like Kostner in that time, I had Adelina 3rd. I thought Kim could have done more to secure her position. I can trust that there were neutral observators who thought the verdict was fair in the heat of the moment esp. as Sotnikova landed 7 triples in FS that is 1 more than Yuna Kim in her FS but once you delve deeper into this subject you find that ....

There were way too many indications that point otherwise to simply ignore but each to its own. Everything she did received extra miraculous points boost vs Europeans / GP events including non-jumps that were executed exactly the same (even rewarded extra upgrade on step sequence that is hard to grasp), and that even without going to start going in depth about her unprecedented growth in PCS (also unsubstantiated for me even she admittedly had the best skates of her career, but still you can watch her programs side to side with previous outing and you hardly see any difference bar better jumps content). Also her jumps were very generously & softly evaluated, they overlooked UR, FLUTZ, upgraded step sequence for no transparent reason as she was getting LVL3 before everytime and some judges leniently treated her step-out on top of uncalled +2 +3 across the board on many jumping passes if we focus on LP alone. And to help her even more they lowballed little bit Yuna Kim, esp. in SP. You could say that something was in the air.

Sochi Olympics were held in Russia and as we know from those multiple doping cases and their widespread ways to circumvent it - they were willing to win at all costs. The make-up of tech panel including Mr Lakerkin who should have received ban for life years ago before Sochi at least for the biggest events, and few judges being there also fishy enough for me, some of them even had previous affairs behind them. It gets very clear once you make some research, watch programs again.

Also this picture of Alla Shekhovtseva hugging Adelina after we learned that she's an OGM is well ... suggestive to say the least (one of the judges who with the most certainty gave +3 on everything she could and the most exaggerated imaginable for her - there was some leak that proved but I can't find it back unfortunately, also curiously the wife of the director of the Russian Figure Skating Fed at that time), Mrs Shekhovtseva was at every single competition in which Sotnikova participated in this very season as far as I know.

Addressing a few of these, though I don't know why I bother wasting my breath.

- It is entirely possible to get a level 3 step sequence all season and then get it called level 4. How? You skate it well. A skater at Adelina's level isn't choreographing a deliberate 3. They're choreographing a 4. It's just that ice is slippery, and one slip or skid, even if barely noticeable to the naked eye, can be enough to bump you down to a 3. So Adelina getting a 4 is not fishy; it just means she got it right.

- So the tech panel was a lenient one. Not my favourite kind of tech panel but they were the same to everyone. Other skaters got away with mistakes too. And I seem to recall Yuna having at least one UR jump that either wasn't called or got treated rather leniently. The point is, a lenient tech panel doesn't mean they're cheating. It means they're lenient. Still won't be as bad as the TPs they've had at US Nats.

- It's the Olympics. Scores go high. You have the skate of your life, they're gonna go higher. You phone it in, they're gonna go lower. Simple.

- Ah, is this the bit where the KONSPIRACY! people start claiming that because the data and replay operators were Russian it's PROOF! ? I'm not aware of any issues with Lakernik on the panel. You know there were three of them, right? He could easily be overruled by the other two.

- And last of all, the hug argument. Sorry that an over-excited 17 year old who just had the skate of her life and won the biggest event of her career was jumping around hugging everybody in sight and Alla happened to be one of them. Sorry that Alla is a respected judge who happened to fill quite a few of Russia's randomly drawn judge spots. Oh, wait, I forgot! She was the director's wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife! Of course! Mustn't forget the entirely sexist argument that she meekly obeys his every command. Of course, this argument never mentions that the actual KSU president was on the judging panel in Vancouver. But Alla is is wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Actually, Adelina's win was precisely a function of a figure skating tradition: geographic block voting. The panels were mostly Eastern European, and resulted in overinflated PCS scores by 2-3 points.

This is actually incorrect. There was 1 Eastern European judge on the SP panel (SLO) and 4 in the LP (SLO, RUS, EST, UKR). The LP obviously leaned a lot Eastern European than the SP panel, but the relative PCS marks awarded to the top 3 skaters were roughly the same across both programs.

 

[OS]

Good grief Karne is at this again?!! Aren't you tired of this?? You are more obsessed about this than any Yuna fan I know.

It is not about who can be the loudest mouthpiece or be the most obnoxious 'debater'. Sochi was a shameful debacle in full witness of the world beyond figure skating. I have no doubt how history will judge how everything went down there, for who's benefit and purpose... As for figure skating, the result will continue to be controversial in the years to come, beyond our lifetime.

The fact majority of Chinese forums and many members of the press (Germany, Britain, US, Italy, even Japan!!) disagreed with the result is already good enough for me. If it all comes down to democracy in sheer numbers, China makes up the majority

What I will say is this. Figure skating is made of BOTH art and sport, and certainly, BOTH should be treated with equal respect and accuracy, not at the expense of another. Feigned ignorance is plain laziness and deliberate ineptitude, anyone doing so, out of spite is complicit in dishonesty. Put it this way... good quality work should be the best balance of both, never ONLY one side only when suited. Quality is not built overnight... nor do they change overnight, only quality of opinions can change overnight with tainted motivations. The fact there doesn't seem to be credible judge panel selection process or vetoing check says a lot about the backwards management of this sport and its care for equality and true fairness. That's all...

[url]https://www.olympic.org/ [/URL] knows how to celebrate and respect its greatest champions. I am pretty happy about it.

As for Adelina, I wish her luck. It is unfortunate with what happened, but I thought they only know which sample to mess with if the athletes manage to disclose the actual security code only known to them during testing?

 

[el henry]

I understand that this thread is related to Sochi and the doping scandal, but.....

Is there any way to please stop rehashing, over and over and over and over again, the ladies’ 2014 OG results?

Or at least have their own dedicated thread, so that people who care, can discuss it there?

Thank you.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

This is actually incorrect. There was 1 Eastern European judge on the SP panel (SLO) and 4 in the LP (SLO, RUS, EST, UKR). The LP obviously leaned a lot Eastern European than the SP panel, but the relative PCS marks awarded to the top 3 skaters were roughly the same across both programs.

Also, SLO is not an Eastern European country, to be precise