IOC issues recommendations on RUS/BLR athletes

[Rikku]

I mean, the door swings both ways. The same way Bach is criticizing 'the west' with "We have not seen a single comment from them about their attitude about the participation of athletes whose countries are involved in the other 70 wars and armed conflicts in the world.", the same way one could say the IOC itself has a double standard by not excluding/giving neutral status to those 70 countries. After all, it's not a race to the bottom wherein places 2-70 get off because they're runners up.

I'm aware that this is unrealistic. I'm just thinking Bach/the IOC doesn't have any moral high ground calling out others for double standards.

 

[Amei]

Competing without a flag is fine for tennis players... They compete for themselves, week in week out. Competing at the Olympics is different. It's always been about the greatest pride of representing your own people and country, once or twice in a lifetime for most. The climax is standing on the podium with your national anthem played. I am not so sure Russian athletes are that thrilled with the IOC's proposal here. Actually, quite the opposite... but I am not a Russian athlete so I won't make any assumptions on how they feel.

Also, let's not forget that ROC was already competing as neutrals before the ban... so returning there, as the situation is very different, seems ludicrous.

Well I think we might be talking 2 separate things, sorta. It's not just the Olympics they are banned from, its also leagues/organizations like the ISU that is the primary source of competition year in and out for these athletes. Will some perhaps balk at the neutral status, perhaps and that will be their choice, I won't think more or less of them, but I'm sure that there are some that will be completely willing to compete as a neutral athlete if that means they have a chance, does that mean they hate their country or are unpatriotic, no it means they want to continue their international career. There's a decent number of skaters competing internationally for a country other than the one they were born, train or reside in or all 3 of those.

 

[Amei]

I mean, the door swings both ways. The same way Bach is criticizing 'the west' with "We have not seen a single comment from them about their attitude about the participation of athletes whose countries are involved in the other 70 wars and armed conflicts in the world.", the same way one could say the IOC itself has a double standard by not excluding/giving neutral status to those 70 countries. After all, it's not a race to the bottom wherein places 2-70 get off because they're runners up.

I'm aware that this is unrealistic. I'm just thinking Bach/the IOC doesn't have any moral high ground calling out others for double standards.

It is a double standard and for that I do feel sorry for the Russian and Belarusian athletes....but its better than where they were last week.

 

[4everchan]

Well I think we might be talking 2 separate things, sorta. It's not just the Olympics they are banned from, its also leagues/organizations like the ISU that is the primary source of competition year in and out for these athletes. Will some perhaps balk at the neutral status, perhaps and that will be their choice, I won't think more or less of them, but I'm sure that there are some that will be completely willing to compete as a neutral athlete if that means they have a chance, does that mean they hate their country or are unpatriotic, no it means they want to continue their international career. There's a decent number of skaters competing internationally for a country other than the one they were born, train or reside in or all 3 of those.

The point of the IOC statement is to allow athletes to compete in qualifying events prior to the games. Otherwise, they cannot even take part. The IOC is trying to sell the neutral athletes deal to convince sport federations that it is okay to allow athletes back. Forget the ISU for a while... figure skaters could be the last ones back in... as the athletes can qualify at the last moment....though Sebastian Coe probably will keep track athletes out of World athletics competitions even longer..

 

[midori green]

It surprises me that there isn't something written about "If a country initiates an armed conflict during the Olympic Truce, it will be banned from participating in events for x amount of time." Is the Olympic truce more of a suggestion than a rule? (It doesn't really surprise me.) I think the timing is what prompted the ban and sets it apart from the other ongoing conflicts.

 

[moonvine]

Why would Russia send athletes under these conditions?
"athletes who have not supported the war etc" Makes no sense for Russia to send athletes who do not "support their government's action"
So of course, it's unacceptable.

They can't have Russian passports the way I read it. So are they in fact Russian athletes anymore?

 

[anonymoose_au]

I wonder how this would work, because the audience can bring as many flags as they want to and how would the Ukrainian skaters feel about that.

Actually at the Australian Open the Russian flag was banned although, there were Russian's competing as neutrals there. I suspect the IOC would (or could?) put such a rule for the the Olympics too.

 

[icewhite]

They can't have Russian passports the way I read it. So are they in fact Russian athletes anymore?

Why did you read it that way? I didn't read it like that at all.
In that case it wouldn't make any sense indeed, but it isn't said anywhere.

The interest the Russian state could have is to hope that the situation is only temporary and that some of their top athletes are more inclined to stay Russian and to stay in the sport instead of retiring. Of course it might not necessarily be the ones they like to have as puppets.

Bach and the IOC are of course only interested in their own money and power, which is heavily linked to the IOC... if China invades Taiwan and the world truely falls into two halfs, which is not very unlikely at this point, if Russia and China organize their own games, the IOC becomes irrelevant. So they have to find a way to keep it together for their own sake. Looking at the reactions of everyone I think they won't succeed, though, doesn't look like a "compromise" can be found. To be honest it is almost funny how my twitter, because I follow a lot of Ukraine-supporting sources, is full of "this is a terrible win for the Russian propaganda" and then I see Russians go "this is unacceptable and humiliating, no way". I mean, it simply can't be both.

For figure skating it seems most probable to me that either the ISU on its own allows Russian athletes back because they are running out of money, or that the Russians make their own competitions and the ISU is done, with maybe a new, or several new organizations taking its place.

 

[JimR]

Credit to FIFA for stripping Indonesia of the rights for the U/20 World Cup due to to take place soon, because of their attitude towards Israel competing. I understand that in a predominantly Muslim nation many would take exception to the actions committed against their Palestine comrades over many decades, but the Israeli players cannot be held responsible. It is ridiculous, and rightfully stripped of the event. If only other sporting bodies like the IOC and ISU could show the same clarity as FIFA.

 

[lariko]

I would wait for ISU to make the call. The JGP starts in August, so I hope to hear one way or another soon to find out of Russian teens will be competing.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

or that the Russians make their own competitions and the ISU is done, with maybe a new, or several new organizations taking its place.

^^ This sounds the best. ISU being done, or let them go back to only repping speed skating. Let figure skating create competing divisions (as in baseball and basketball) that are talent-based. Let Russia do its own thing, and those Russian athletes who want to move on to compete elsewhere, let that continue to happen. Having more variety and various competitive divisions can offer skaters more opportunities to compete.

 

[4everchan]

If the figure skating section of the ISU thought it were to be advantageous to leave the ISU ... don't you think it would have done it already? Just saying...

 

[4everchan]

I would wait for ISU to make the call. The JGP starts in August, so I hope to hear one way or another soon to find out of Russian teens will be competing.

it may be before that... my guess would be that when GP assignments are made in june, there will be a good idea of the ISU's decision... however, I don't think anything will be settled until some other issues are solved.

 

[4everchan]

Here is a response to the readmission of Russian and Belarusian fencers

Fencing event in France canceled after Russians readmitted

PARIS (AP) — A fencing World Cup in France was canceled on Friday after the international governing body voted to let Russians compete.

apnews.com

 

[Magill]

Here is a response to the readmission of Russian and Belarusian fencers

Fencing event in France canceled after Russians readmitted

PARIS (AP) — A fencing World Cup in France was canceled on Friday after the international governing body voted to let Russians compete.

apnews.com

Germany and Denmark already cancelled their events as well. Poland issued rules for the participation of Russian and Belarussian athletes in the fencing event held in April, maybe the first set of rules for an actual event after IOC had published its recommendations. According to these, R&B fencers wishing to compete would have to submit a signed statement saying they did not support the war in Ukraine, were not associated to Putin's regime and were not employed by military or special forces and their agencies. Poland reserved the right to check the truthfulness of these statements and claimed they were perfectly following IOC recommendations. Russia announced the rules were "humiliating" and "unacceptable" and they would not send their athletes to the event.
Actually it is based on more than one media piece, but here comes just one of them, not to link too many
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/sports/ar...to-olympic-qualifier-in-poland_6021464_9.html

 

[4everchan]

TaeKwondo.

Russian athletes set to return in taekwondo at world champs

GENEVA (AP) — Russian athletes are set to compete again in taekwondo at next month's world championships, the sport’s governing body said Monday.

apnews.com

 

[4everchan]

So, leaving it up to federations will become a huge mess.... some will do it... others won't... so now the discrimination will be not on passport but on the sport practiced .

 

[Magill]

So, leaving it up to federations will become a huge mess.... some will do it... others won't... so now the discrimination will be not on passport but on the sport practiced .

And it may also depend on the host countries for particular events as it seems each of them can set their rules themselves...

 

[lariko]

it may be before that... my guess would be that when GP assignments are made in june, there will be a good idea of the ISU's decision... however, I don't think anything will be settled until some other issues are solved.

There is probably more flexibility in JGP assignments, but we also saw GP assignments pushed far into July, so I still think ISU will have to announce their position soon to shape the next season. Once they do, we'll know. In respect to JGP, I wonder if the sign off of non-suport of the Russian governement is required from the young athletes themselves or their guardians? Because anyone under the age of 18 can't either legaly support or be employed by the armed forces. Interestingly, that might send ISU right back to the legal responsibilities for the wrongdoing by the underage athletes. I am also wondering if it might finally lead to capping JGP eligibility to 18 years... but then, there is pairs and dance. Interesting conundrum.

 

[4everchan]

There is probably more flexibility in JGP assignments, but we also saw GP assignments pushed far into July, so I still think ISU will have to announce their position soon to shape the next season. Once they do, we'll know. In respect to JGP, I wonder if the sign off of non-suport of the Russian governement is required from the young athletes themselves or their guardians? Because anyone under the age of 18 can't either legaly support or be employed by the armed forces. Interestingly, that might send ISU right back to the legal responsibilities for the wrongdoing by the underage athletes. I am also wondering if it might finally lead to capping JGP eligibility to 18 years... but then, there is pairs and dance. Interesting conundrum.

I agree with that for the kids, they cannot possibly be active in the war... but yeah... for pairs and dance, that may be another story.
I tend to think that the ISU will wait that other issues are solved first... and also, that they will not make a rule for JGP different than a rule for GP... or else, we will face ageism I mean at some point, let's hope that the situation gets better and that all these wonderful athletes can compete together fairly and happily.