ISU bans Russia and Belarus from competitions

[lariko]

Cha had two quads in the FS a 4T (which I think he fell on) and a beautful 4S. Grassl outscored him in the FS by about 5 points.

However Grassl was 9 points behind due to his SP, where he got a warning on both his lutzes and a q on his quad while Cha skated perfectly with a very nice 4S.

This doesn’t seem proportional and this is, again, a loss of a competitions on SP. If one perfect quad is enough, which is what I am seeing from this Olympics, I wish it was more consistent rule application, because then there should be some hope for Russians eventually, once the ban is lifted, and if there is any sport left in Russia, because it’s the multiple quads that they cannot achieve.

But if Grassl also can’t win, there is pretty much nothing really good that could happen in this Worlds from my perspective. It is for another thread, though. The removal of Russians/Belorussians didn’t impact my favorite non-Russian skaters at all. Those who were likely to do well, would do so regardless. None of them is going to get something Russians could have had otherwise.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

thank you for this one. It made me feel even more depressed on this awful morning as a fan and as a person.

Sorry that wasn't the intent, just a bit of humour.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Brendan Kerry trains in Russia, but he is an Aussie citizen, also Sara H and Kirill K who train with Zhulin, but they are Spanish citizens

Not sure where Brendan is at the moment, but Sara and Kirill (and his family) have just relocated to Madrid and will train there till further notice.

 

[Erin9]

The dangers of publicly speaking out against the war and Putin is real. Ask the 7000+ detainer Russians who protested...

Fair point- regarding skaters- or anyone- protesting. I’ve wondered: what happens to them after they’re detained?

 

[Erin9]

Well, that will destroy the one remaining good thing, the access to sports Russian kids have. Part of the reason there are so many skaters in Russia is that there is a good access to start, at least at first. It’s not true, however, that parents don’t pay, plenty of them do. Like I said, I’d rather Canada didn’t close sports schools due to the lack of funding either…

That’s sad. Is that really about the only good thing- access to sports?

I knew skating had long been popular in Russia. I didn’t know exactly what drove it- beyond a long tradition of excellence. Thanks.

 

[Arigato]

Well firstly you’re comparing two very different competitions.

I assume that was meant to be cheeky humor, even though I didn't laugh. Personal scores are relevant regardless of who is in the building at the same time as another skater. Further, Ilia has a well-established international history of lackluster PCS in the 70's. And I'm being more than generous in choosing the word lackluster to describe it. Lucky him. It's Friday and I'm in a good mood.

Are you honestly musing that a quad less Brown managed to beat Malinin

Let's leave out Brown, if you like. My observation would still be: "What a crappy score for a program with 4 quads."

And FWIW it was kind of a bad look that Brown lost to a two-fall Hanyu and a one-fall Cha but Brown’s relative lack of tech difficulty does make it easier to explain to people.

Have you ever considered the cause for your obsession with Hanyu from thread to thread? His falling twice at an event is no more relevant to this discussion than Patrick Chan's falling twice at an event. As for yet another "bad look" comment coming from you, try and find the root cause for that as well. It seems to be personal.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I assume that was meant to be cheeky humor, even though I didn't laugh. Personal scores are relevant regardless of who is in the building at the same time as another skater. Further, Ilia has a well-established international history of lackluster PCS in the 70's. And I'm being more than generous in choosing the word lackluster to describe it. Lucky him. It's Friday and I'm in a good mood.


Let's leave out Brown, if you like. My observation would still be: "What a crappy score for a program with 4 quads."



Have you ever considered the cause for your obsession with Hanyu from thread to thread? His falling twice at an event is no more relevant to this discussion than Patrick Chan's falling twice at an event. As for yet another "bad look" comment coming from you, try and find the root cause for that as well. It seems to be personal.

LOL nice to see you're in a good mood! But well-established history? Come on - be fair, Malinin has literally had 3 international senior competitions, and this is a hybrid junior-senior season for him at that and he hasn't even had a senior season. And lackluster PCS in the 70's? As mentioned, he's not even really a senior yet, and at the most recent junior Worlds, nobody got in the 80's on PCS, including a certain "lackluster" Yuma Kagiyama - who only started scoring in the 80s when he turned senior.

Also, just an FYI, there are other elements in a program other than those 4 jumping passes, and sometimes just because a skater lands X number of quads doesn't mean they'll score higher than if they performed with X-1 or X-2 quads executed. I'll illustrate this by continuing my obsession with Hanyu from thread to thread, and pointing out that he scored 187.37 at the 2016 GPF FS with 3 quads, 194.08 at the 2015 GPF FS with 2 quads, and 219.48 at the 2014 GPF FS with 3 quads. How was it possible for him to get 219.48 with 3 quads and 187.37 with 3 quads?! Well, look at the rest of the protocol, and the other elements. After that, under -5/+5 system... Hanyu landed 4 quads at WTT and got 200.49, and landed 4 quads at Worlds and got 223.20. At the 2019 GPF, Hanyu landed 5 quads and got 194.00 points - a month earlier at NHK with 4 landed quads he got 195.71.

Point being, you can't just look at the number of quads. Malinin had a UR fall on his quad lutz, and a q called on his 4T, which dropped the GOE. Had Malinin done everything else cleanly, then yeah, I might have wondered why a program with 4 quads scored "only" 176.14 points (which is more than seasoned veteran seniors' seasons best FS like Messing, Aymoz, Aliev), but of course I wouldn't just count the quads I would look at overall execution of all elements. 176.14 isn't chump change for someone who has never had an international GP. Had he landed the quad lutz cleanly, as he can, he would have one of the top 10 freeskate scores of the season. Also, let's be honest, if Malinin had scored PCS over 80, you'd then gripe that it was overscored (which of course I would surmise you will be doing when Malinin actually starts his first full senior season and getting PCS in the 80's), but when it's under 80 you muse that it's a lacklustre score because it's only in the 70's. FYI, half the senior guys at Worlds 2021 didn't clear 80 PCS.

 

[Arigato]

LOL nice to see you're in a good mood! But well-established history? Come on - be fair, Malinin has literally had 3 international senior competitions, and this is a hybrid junior-senior season for him at that and he hasn't even had a senior season. And lackluster PCS in the 70's? As mentioned, he's not even really a senior yet, and at the most recent junior Worlds, nobody got in the 80's on PCS, including a certain "lackluster" Yuma Kagiyama - who only started scoring in the 80s when he turned senior.

Leave out all the jumps. Be honest. Have you seen the skating?

<snipped the obsession>



Point being, you can't just look at the number of quads.

I don't.

Malinin had a UR fall on his quad lutz, and a q called on his 4T, which dropped the GOE. Had Malinin done everything else cleanly, then yeah, I might have wondered why a program with 4 quads scored "only" 176.14 points (which is more than seasoned veteran seniors' seasons best FS like Messing, Aymoz, Aliev), but of course I wouldn't just count the quads I would look at overall execution of all elements. 176.14 isn't chump change for someone who has never had an international GP. Had he landed the quad lutz cleanly, as he can, he would have one of the top 10 freeskate scores of the season. Also, let's be honest, if Malinin had scored PCS over 80, you'd then gripe that it was overscored (which of course I would surmise you will be doing when Malinin actually starts his first full senior season and getting PCS in the 80's), but when it's under 80 you muse that it's a lacklustre score because it's only in the 70's. FYI, half the senior guys at Worlds 2021 didn't clear 80 PCS.

If you are going to hurt my eyes with all that minutiae, I have no choice but to fight back.

Spoiler

 

[macy]

This is rather at this point. There are other threads to discuss brown vs malinin.

 

[karne]

Not sure where Brendan is at the moment, but Sara and Kirill (and his family) have just relocated to Madrid and will train there till further notice.

Brendan is at home. He is giving a seminar in Adelaide this weekend, I believe.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Brendan is at home. He is giving a seminar in Adelaide this weekend, I believe.

That's a relief!

Harley Windsor is still in Moscow though...he just posted an Insta story from there the other day, hopefully if he needs or wants to get out he'll be able to, although I'm not sure how.

Anyway my point was more that even if the ISU scraps the 1 year wait to change countries it won't be as simple as a promising Russian Junior deciding to represent Uzbekistan or something. They will probably need to leave Russia altogether, which will mean leaving family behind.

I don't think we're going to see any of our Russian favourites until the ban is lifted and it's not clear how long that will be.

 

[Ziotic]

That's a relief!

Harley Windsor is still in Moscow though...he just posted an Insta story from there the other day, hopefully if he needs or wants to get out he'll be able to, although I'm not sure how.

Anyway my point was more that even if the ISU scraps the 1 year wait to change countries it won't be as simple as a promising Russian Junior deciding to represent Uzbekistan or something. They will probably need to leave Russia altogether, which will mean leaving family behind.

I don't think we're going to see any of our Russian favourites until the ban is lifted and it's not clear how long that will be.

As this war gets messier, I don’t think we see any Russians for at least two seasons.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Please stay on topic in this thread,

All further posts that are off topic may be removed and warned.

 

[beachmouse]

The Middle East 3, Turkish and Egypt Air are all keeping flight schedules into Russia the last I heard. And will likely stay that way in some form to allow Russians back into the country and foreign nationals to leave. (Russian carriers into those countries are kind of problematic because many of them use leased aircraft from EU companies and sanctions terminated those leases along with their insurance, so even if S7 was willing to fly into Istanbul or Cairo, they need to be very careful not to use an aircraft that could be repossessed at a foreign airfield over the expired lease)

And now there is something even weirder than a global skating championship with no Russian ladies- the possibility of a Rhythmic Gymnastics World Championship with no Russia. FIG starts a ban of Russian and Belarusian gymnasts at the conclusion of the current World Cup stop in Qatar-

International Gymnastics Federation bans Russian and Belarusian athletes

Following an emergency meeting, the International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) Executive Committee has announced that it is banning Russian and Belarus...

www.insidethegames.biz

 

[lariko]

Anyway my point was more that even if the ISU scraps the 1 year wait to change countries it won't be as simple as a promising Russian Junior deciding to represent Uzbekistan or something. They will probably need to leave Russia altogether, which will mean leaving family behind.

Let the ISU scrap it first, then let the families decide what they can or might do. At this point, as rightly noted, there is no reasons to lift the ban. The sooner there is at least a possibility of livelihood elsewhere, the more options there is for seniors or juniors to have a successful life. To be honest, I would put my money on skipping time now, even if it is the full 2 years, for a long-term gain, unless the specific athletes are strongly invested in one political side or another of the internal conflict. Put blankly and cynically, career prospects, professional skating or alternatives, will always be better outside of Russia after this war, no matter the outcome and timeline.

 

[Reynnou]

And now there is something even weirder than a global skating championship with no Russian ladies- the possibility of a Rhythmic Gymnastics World Championship with no Russia. FIG starts a ban of Russian and Belarusian gymnasts at the conclusion of the current World Cup stop in Qatar-

International Gymnastics Federation bans Russian and Belarusian athletes

Following an emergency meeting, the International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) Executive Committee has announced that it is banning Russian and Belarus...

www.insidethegames.biz

It's a shame they didn't ban them sooner that would have prevent that disgusting behavior by one of the the russian gymnast competing at Doha. He covered the Russian gymnastics federation insigna (they had to since FIG ban the Russian and Belarus flag/insigna) with a "Z" (symbol for the russian invasion of Ukraine).

https://twitter.com/Pamchenkova/status/1500173611654656000

There was ukrainian gymnasts competing and he shared a podium with one of them Ilya Kovtun (who won btw).
Being a former gymnast myself I have been following gymnastics for as long as I can remember and it's a friendly community with lot of camaraderie between gymnasts (especially the men). I have never seen something like this. Absolutely disgraceful !

 

[Placebo11]

you know, Federer and Djokovic were not at the Australian Open this year and it was a thrilling competition.

But Nadal was there and won.

 

[karne]

But Nadal was there and won.

To the absolute delight of the Australian crowd. We love Nadal anyway, but the fact he called out Djokovic for being a bleep bleep bleep certainly increased the endearment.

 

[ElenaNikitaFan]

my comparision was simply about the quality of the competition. Not about what the athletes live. Someone brought up the "imagine tennis without the big stars", well, we just had that, and it was great.

Nope, Nadal was there and he even won

 

[reneerose]

I guess if Worlds is still happening then boy are they maybe going to have to up the security?