- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
No.Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.
No.Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.
In the real world, we are not talking about Sara Brightman and Celtic Woman striking deals with PBS, broadcasting their music and receiving million in return in royalties and concert revenue and promotion and fame. That's for sure. But the concept of payola is not new, legal or otherwise. Pleanty of DJs took money to broadcast songs to boost the artist's popularity so they could sell more 45 rpm records. The issue of lawyers arguing that NBC et al made money off of one of their client's tunes is ludicruous, but that is what non criminal law is all about. Using the "law" to make money. And bully and intimidate. See the poor figure skater needing a tune to skate to? Wait, they didnt cross the T or dot the I. Wack 'um! Mention THEM in the lawsuit as well as NBC and USFS....follow the money....Probably not all of it, which wouldn't be the music causing problems for stored streams with copyright claims being made. But the idea that those music companies should pay figure skaters who have a generally a very small niche market they touch to use copyrighted music with the idea that it would net a positive return for attracting people to their artists that would recoup the music company's cost is where I think people are getting blinded by their own figure skating fandom.
I am not sure what Lyrics have to do with anything. When Sarah Brightman took Ennio Morricone's beautiful "the Mission" music Gabriel's Oboe and hired an Italian lyrisist and made Nella Fantasia, she had to beg Ennio for the rights.....Not since they started letting the skaters use music with lyrics.
Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.
Yeah, sorry. Admittedly, I forgot to bring up modern movie score soundtracks. Those wouldn't be in the public demain either, so what we would be stuck with are the warhorses, and even if I like some warhorses (Nutcracker), I love modern music, too, and would prefer if more of it was used.I am not sure what Lyrics have to do with anything. When Sarah Brightman took Ennio Morricone's beautiful "the Mission" music Gabriel's Oboe and hired an Italian lyrisist and made Nella Fantasia, she had to beg Ennio for the rights.....
I think that public domain music would often equal the warhorses that many fans complain about...
I am blown away....if you use a Nutcracker that was recorded in 2020, its "protected".!!!!Yeah, sorry. Admittedly, I forgot to bring up modern movie score soundtracks. Those wouldn't be in the public demain either, so what we would be stuck with are the warhorses, and even if I like some warhorses (Nutcracker), I love modern music, too, and would prefer if more of it was used.
Which is fair enough, surely?I am blown away....if you use a Nutcracker that was recorded in 2020, its "protected".!!!!
Yeah, I'm sure it's relatively costly to produce the stream. I just get frustrated, because obviously they need to make money, but also, if they wall everything off, no one will watch anything and then they REALLY won't make any money.And its fine if people vote with their dollars and chose not to watch something for money. Right now, since this is a closed business, we have no idea how much it costs ISU to create the feed it sells to countries willing to pay for it. Charging the little guy out in internet land is just another profit stream for them.....I have a hard time believing that it will bring in much and that it will force people to give up their VPNs and buy Peacock and stay up all hours to watch.......but it is clear that some bean counter feels this is the correct path. We are just not privy to where the beans come from and go at this time.....
ITA. Youtube needs to move its HQ to a PO box in Switzerland like so many other companies....the Swiss are very accomidating...low corporate taxes, etc. That is why Nestle moved....if WMG wants to sue a Swiss company for music violations, bring it on.....what will happen is exactly what happened when the Wright Brothers tried to sue Europe for making airplanes....squat.Yeah, I'm sure it's relatively costly to produce the stream. I just get frustrated, because obviously they need to make money, but also, if they wall everything off, no one will watch anything and then they REALLY won't make any money.
Yes, I agree. I just dont agree that music should be protected for 50 years after the artist dies....JMTCWhich is fair enough, surely?
The heirs of that artist would disagree.Yes, I agree. I just dont agree that music should be protected for 50 years after the artist dies....JMTC
The artist themselves might as well, given that it is their artistic property, they usually want to leave something to their family etc, and other forms of willed property don't suddenly belong to the public when we die. I don't think 50 years is unreasonable myself (ps, and most of the modern music the skaters seem to be going for is by living artists anyway?)The heirs of that artist would disagree.
No one can argue against that. No one can argue that makers of music, whether THEY buy the music and record it with THEIR instruments, or whether they wrote or recorded the music in the first place. The point of contention is, how long is the contract to use the music good for, basically. Now Peacock has on demand, if only for a day or so. While ISU youtube is still subject to getting wacked. You will note of course the oddity that Peacock can broadcast Shoma Live and then NBC rabbit ears can broadcast it "live" days later....The artist themselves might as well, given that it is their artistic property, they usually want to leave something to their family etc, and other forms of willed property don't suddenly belong to the public when we die. I don't think 50 years is unreasonable myself (ps, and most of the modern music the skaters seem to be going for is by living artists anyway?)
If skaters and the ISU want to use someone else's legal property, they have to be willing to pay what said someone else is willing to sell it for. That's only fair.
No one can argue against that. No one can argue that makers of music, whether THEY buy the music and record it with THEIR instruments, or whether they wrote or recorded the music in the first place. The point of contention is, how long is the contract to use the music good for, basically. Now Peacock has on demand, if only for a day or so. While ISU youtube is still subject to getting wacked. You will note of course the oddity that Peacock can broadcast Shoma Live and then NBC rabbit ears can broadcast it "live" days later....
WMG and the other two need to come up with a new music contract for skaters and broadcasters that lasts a season...what did Mai say she did? 10 events? WMG needs to keep pace with current technology. This is not rocket science....
I don't know the actual amounts but I remember Yuzuru sympathizing with young skaters in Japan over the music copyright problem in some interview. He said that when he was still a young skater he would skate his program only 3-4 times with his real music outside of competitions as they were not able to afford paying the copyrights. I understand in Japan you would have to pay copyrights even for playing music aloud at the rink for training? Or maybe he trained at the times when the rink was open to the public as he was a child then? IDK. Anyway, he said that's why he learnt to memorize his music for practice, sing it to himself etc. He sounded like it was really A LOT.Oh I can definitely empathise with what you say (it isn;t only TV and streaming either, when I bought the last Yuzuru DVD, the only program that was not on it was Let's Go Crazy, which undoubtedly was because of a copyright ban and yes, I did something of a rant about it to myself. Even if Prince's estate have eased off in Yuzu by by now, my DVD feels incomplete.) It's why we get covers, but let's be honest, the covers are seldom if ever as good and therefor do seem a bit... shabby.
There should be a solution but to be even more honest, WMG is not exactly starting from the position of strength, since the music the skaters want to use is seldom by artists/estates who need to cut such a deal and so can ask any price they want. Does anyone know what sort of money is offered?
Ouch! That would really hurt (and explain why public domain music/warhorses will never wholly go out of fashion....)I understand in Japan you would have to pay copyrights even for playing music aloud at the rink for training? Or maybe he trained at the times when the rink was open to the public as he was a child then? IDK.