- Joined
- Oct 6, 2023
- Country
-
this thread gives me a headache, anxiety, and arthritis all at once.
ISU proposals: Jumps, spin for 2024-25
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
This is the second time I have had to fact check someone in this thread.
The top 12 finishing Russian men in the free skate at the Russian championship had one fall.
The top 12 finishing international men in the free skate at the world championships had five falls.
If I go to the top 13 for the international men, it is seven falls.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Country
-
Is any sport, or for that matter art, or for that matter entertainment in general, logical?
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
*Three falls
Ilya Yablokov (9th overall, 12th in the Free) fell twice, and Mark Kondratiuk (10th overall, 7th in the Free) once.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
The last person I need to "fact check" my posts is you.
First of all I didn't even state "Russian men fall the most" and especially not "the top 12 Russian men fell more often at their last nats free skate than the top 12 men in their free skate at last worlds". You are disputing something I didn't say.
Secondly your numbers are wrong.
Thirdly you conveniently chose the top12, not the top 17, which would have made the most sense since there were 17 finishers at Russian nats - which would, I think, increase your fall statistics by 7 in the free skate of last Russian nats. You also conveniently chose the free skate only, leaving the splatfest that was the short program of that event in the shadow.
I love watching the Russian men and I have no intention of disregarding their abilities or talking about this off topic anymore, but don't call what you do "fact checking".
Let's make a deal, I don't react to your posts anymore, you don't react to mine.
That's my error. One fall in the top 11 of the free skate. Three in the top 12.*Three falls
Ilya Yablokov (9th overall, 12th in the Free) fell twice, and Mark Kondratiuk (10th overall, 7th in the Free) once.
Very impressive consistency.
I've acknowledged my error it was top 11 with one fall not top 12, but still an impressive three in the top 12.
You said So many men going for Lutzes and Flips when they already have huge problems of landing easier layouts. I interpreted it to mean they fall a lot with easier layouts. I thought to myself, I'll do a quick fact check to see if this matches reality. I picked the free skates of the two most important competitions because this would be most representative and it showed up as three falls in the top 12 of the Russian comp (only one in the top 11), and five falls in the world's event. Don't forget the top 12 of world's included a skater who can only jump triples, therefore the chances of falling are drastically reduced (this should be excluded from the calculation), whereas there's no-one at Russian nationals without a quad so you would normally expect more falls.
I just thought it was interesting. Much like someone implied in the Russian competition it's a splatfest, but I looked it up and in the top 13 not a single fall from a triple, but two in the worlds' women's event. There were 3 falls from quads, so virtually identical except the quads have only ever been attempted in competition by few senior women in history.
Perception does not always equal reality. I always like to find out these things for myself.
It's all in good nature too. Don't feel like it's an attack it's just a continuation of a discussion.
Last edited:
I'm confused. Does this mean that a skater can do three quad toes?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
No. And that's my pet peveve on this subject. Having taught graduate courses on logic, axiomatic systems and foundations of mathematics for many years I cringe when people say things like, "Logically, there should be 6 jumping passes instead of 7," or."Logically, the ISU ought to penalizes falls more heavily."
Words like "shoulld" and "ought" are not part of the lexicon of logical inference. Just leave out the word "logically" (or replace it with "I think that") and the sentences are is fine.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
As far as I can tell that part of the propsed changes has not been explained in detail yet. I think that we will have to wait and see what is intended.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Country
-
10 pages already for a proposal we aren’t sure will pass through or not. Only on GS. Lol.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I guess we figure that if we wait for the proposal to pass it will be too late to gripe. So we have to take our shots now.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2014
AbsolutelyI guess we figure that if we wait for the proposal to pass it will be too late to gripe. So we have to take our shots now.
I'm sure someone from ISU responsible for the media relationships is reading our posts 
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
- Country
-
Threads will do this until summer competitions start. It's normal
ISU Communication 2623 has information about some of the proposed changes, including the choreographic spin/lift.
Of note, Eulers won't count as being part of a three jump combination:
Also Phil Hersh wrote about the proposed changes here. He clarified the three jump types proposal:
Of note, Eulers won't count as being part of a three jump combination:
Also Phil Hersh wrote about the proposed changes here. He clarified the three jump types proposal:
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Country
-
I didn't see anything about reduction of jumps in the proposal. And let's remember that proposal does NOT equal it's going to happen. Just like a bill does not equal a law. Could turn into one. But they're not one in the same.
If for sure that is a proposal, then I hope all the members do the right thing and vote NO. There's ZERO reason to change it during the midpoint of an Olympic cycle. ZERO. It makes zero sense to change the amount of jumps. It was changed 6 years ago. No need to do it so soon. Or again. What's the point? Stop changing the scoring system so soon. Whoever created the idea must have been on something that altered their mind.
If for sure that is a proposal, then I hope all the members do the right thing and vote NO. There's ZERO reason to change it during the midpoint of an Olympic cycle. ZERO. It makes zero sense to change the amount of jumps. It was changed 6 years ago. No need to do it so soon. Or again. What's the point? Stop changing the scoring system so soon. Whoever created the idea must have been on something that altered their mind.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
Well, I hope they change it, even if the timing is indeed not great - but it's worth trying to reduce the number of jumps and get better programs. How many great free skates do we see? As in, actual programs, not jump drills? The percentage isn't high and the hope is that this would improve choreo, harmony and versatility of programs.
I could come up with this idea easily and I'm not on anything but sometimes coffee.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
I would vote yes. I want more creativity and less skating from one jump to the next. Also, more choreo spins and movements, more points for step sequences and a complete overhaul of spin levels.
A girl can dream, right?
A girl can dream, right?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
- Country
-
Why I seldom watch the singles events anymore. So many of the skaters I see discussed and analyzed here are just names to me because I've never actually seen them skate. When I do watch a bit, I end up turning down the sound because it annoys me when their music has no connection to what they're doing, as if they only play some music while they jump because the rules say they have to.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Country
-
There were definitely great programs over the past 6 seasons under that set of rules. That people had praised over.
