Nagasu to skate to Miss Saigon

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I always like to imagine that Shang had a thing for Mulan when she was Ping like in Yentl where Mandy Patinkin's character is horrified by the homoerotic tension between him and Yentl as a man. It's not what the authors of the movie intended nor does the legend itself make any reference to that, but I like my version.

Anyway, what pieces of Miss Saigon would you guys like to see edited for a program for Mirai?

 

[brightphoton]

My question is if the biggest issue you have is that the works, the select few Asian women have that specifically center around an Asian female character, show Asian women falling in love with white men at the expense of Asian men. I'm asking due to the post where you expressed pity that "no" Asian-American skaters (that you know of) married Asian men. I have to admit it makes me see your critiques about Mirai's music choice in a new light.

I think it's probably time we move on and discuss how Mirai will skate to this music.

I hope you do see it in a new light. I think it's important that people start considering Asian issues from that perspective. It's often dismissed and ignored, but it really shouldn't.

So, sorry can't count Mulan as being Asian Man/Woman example.

Even if you don't, I'm happy that there's finally some new music choices that Asians can skate to with dignity, music that shows that they're more than war brides.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I hope she uses "Sun & Moon" for her slow pieces. I feel like skaters don't tend to use that piece at all. I also hope she uses a fast piece for her footwork and not a slow part like I saw recently from a skater who used Miss Saigon.

 

[geige]

I think it's probably time we move on and discuss how Mirai will skate to this music.

Oh well...can we all talk about Mirai's actual skating now?

Let's actually

 

[jenaj]

You mean a movie about how a woman goes against Chinese traditions to save her family, and cross dresses and for 3/4 or more of the film is mistaken for a man (army soldier)which was treason at the time?!??

And it's not a real Asian man and woman love story at all, as much as you want to make it, it doesn't even come close to the other Disney princess films in the lovey dovey man woman story etc.

So, sorry can't count Mulan as being Asian Man/Woman example.

The music is gorgeous though and I love Mulan.

Oh well...can we all talk about Mirai's actual skating now?

I love Mulan, too. It not just about an Asian man and woman. It is about a girl who rebels against societal norms that say her only option is to look as pretty as she can so she can find a husband. That's pretty empowering, I would say! But back to Mirai, Miss Saigon is a gorgeous piece of music that has been used by Michelle Kwan and Yuna Kim. There is nothing wrong with Mirai using it, too.

 

[gsk8]

But back to Mirai, Miss Saigon is a gorgeous piece of music that has been used by Michelle Kwan and Yuna Kim. There is nothing wrong with Mirai using it, too.

Thanks! Yes, let's please stay on topic.

 

[Ruffles78]

:luv17:

 

[Skatingcat]

Smart Choice.

 

[Skater Boy]

Sadly if skaters and coaches could say what they really thought we might find that a lot of choices for music for programs is more about getting the marks and show casing what you do best and hiding your weaknesses rather than being picked for story or theme. If we did not have such mass media including the internet most of us would have no idea what the story behind any music Now skaters with internet, video, tv, radio etc. try to sell their programs and that they have ameaningful piece. All for what - for more marks, more medal glory. Madame Butterfly, Miss Saigon are all great vehicles to help garner some attention. But in the end lot of the pcs and marks are based on getting the job done - the tricks. If Mirai does the tricks she will be rewarded.

 

[GrandmaCC]

^
As a Eurasian female, how do you feel that 99% of western media depicts Asian women with white men, who on average, treat them rather poorly. You hardly see any media with the opposite pairing, white women and Asian man.

Honestly, it's not something that I notice. Which is why this thread struck me as more of a film & culture seminar as opposed to a sporting discussion.
If a skater - regardless of race - can take a story, however sad, and parlay it into a beautifully emotional program then I think this is great and that further analysis is unwarranted and detracts from the athlete and their efforts.

As for Mirai (because YES FFS this thread should be about her SKATING and not her skin!!), I think that this could be the vehicle she needs to boost her chances of making the US team. A strong, mature piece with scope for real emotional interpretation is what she needs for the Olympic year. I just hope she has the conditioning/mental prep to allow her to focus on the performance, the choreo, AND the jumps - a repeat of 4cc's would be devastating, especially when she's now really got the music to truly bring the total package.
It has, IMHO, the potential to be an epic performance if she can put everything together.

And - for whatever reasons- if Mirai does feel a cultural connection to the music or racial responsibility to it? Maybe it will give her an added motivation to be at her best, peak when needed (not that I'm suggesting she lacks motivation, just trying to see where others are coming from with the whole race aspect).
Can you imagine the beauty of a 2010 Mirai combined with a deeply emotional and mature skate? I think that would be wonderful.

 

[OS]

Hehehe... we might as well call it the rite of passage (or trappings of) if you are an Asian figure skater. You are basically stuck with at least with one of the following at some point of your career.

Madam Butterfly
Miss Saigon
Memoir of a Geisha
Mulan
Tourandot
House of flying dagger
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

At least now Mirai complete the first trifecta.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Hehehe... we might as well call it the rite of passage (or trappings of) if you are an Asian figure skater. You are basically stuck with at least with one of the following at some point of your career.

Madam Butterfly
Miss Saigon
Memoir of a Geisha
Mulan
Tourandot
House of flying dagger
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

At least now Mirai complete the first trifecta.

Your post makes me wonder if non-Asian skaters feel like they can "pull off" a program to any of these pieces, or if they think that they wouldn't be "believable" with that music. Virtually everyone skates to Spanish-themed music at some point, so I wonder why music with Asian, Middle Eastern, or African themes are infrequently used by foreign skaters.

 

[GrandmaCC]

Hehehe... we might as well call it the rite of passage (or trappings of) if you are an Asian figure skater. You are basically stuck with at least with one of the following at some point of your career.

Madam Butterfly
Miss Saigon
Memoir of a Geisha
Mulan
Tourandot
House of flying dagger
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

At least now Mirai complete the first trifecta.

Ok I think I need more clarification re race & skating. Please bare with me, I'm realising that I really don't have any idea of how race affects "casting"!

I may be lacking in culture lol, but it wasn't until I watched Elena's Turnadot this last season that I learned the opera was set in China (feel free to roll eyes ). I'd always just thought of it as Italian music.
Especially since in '06 when Shizuka won with it, and (I think?) Bezic said something like "this piece of music in this building could be magic", I figured she'd returned to that piece as it would please the Torino crowd.


- does it matter that Shizuka is Japanese & not Chinese? Similar to how Mirai is Japanese/American and not Vietnamese for Miss Saigon? Are skaters of Asian origin simply just "Asian" in the eyes of the viewer and therefore able/ought to play any "part"?

- would people be angry, in this politically correct era at least, at a Japanese skater performing to a Chinese role? If Shizuka skated now instead of '06 would there be cries of cultural appropriation?

- is the venue location itself a more important factor in selecting the music than race? Is a crowd appreciative of a skater, regardless of where they are from, using music of the host country? (This definitely seems to be a theme in Gymnastics where ladies choose music that will go over well with the audience).

- conversely, does any country/race feel as though they have rights to a certain piece of music, and it is rude for a skater from another nation to use it? (Thinking of the anger in the thread re Tara's wedding about how only blacks should marry at plantation houses).
This I know was an issue with a team who used Aboriginal Australian music and costumes. It offended so much that it made national news in Australia, and skating is NEVER in the news here.

Finally, can "white" skaters use Asian pieces freely? I don't recall anyone taking issue with Elena using Turnadot.

Phew! I feel more exhausted than Mirai looks after skating her long program props to the choreographers for having to deal with these issues!!

 

[GrandmaCC]

Your post makes me wonder if non-Asian skaters feel like they can "pull off" a program to any of these pieces, or if they think that they wouldn't be "believable" with that music. Virtually everyone skates to Spanish-themed music at some point, so I wonder why music with Asian, Middle Eastern, or African themes are infrequently used by foreign skaters.

Exactly!!
I'm getting the distinct feeling from the previous posts here that Asian pieces are "owned" by Asians (not anyone from an actual country, just the whole of Asia), while most other music is fair game for anyone who wants to take it on.

 

[OS]

Your post makes me wonder if non-Asian skaters feel like they can "pull off" a program to any of these pieces, or if they think that they wouldn't be "believable" with that music. Virtually everyone skates to Spanish-themed music at some point, so I wonder why music with Asian, Middle Eastern, or African themes are infrequently used by foreign skaters.

I remember liking Isadora Williams's Memoir of a Geisha a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgIqLv4kB8o

Then again, I am always encouraged to see skaters stepping outside of their comfort zone to experience new things, making original discoveries, attempting genuine artistic fulfilment outside their purview, not a formulated one, brave new horizons and all that. It is harder, riskier and fulfilling thing to do. It may not always translate to better marks unfortunately. Not with lazy judging anyway, judges marks what they know, familiarity, safe bets of Carmen, Swan Lake, Chopin, who prefer group thinking and safe reputation marking with the reputable skaters, and can take a few competitions to get it right.

Miss Saigon just happen to be a popular safe choice for a lot of Asian skaters, most likely out of artistic laziness from the choreographer (mostly western) already stuck with limited material out there for Asian ethnicities, while also needing to make it easier for judges (majority western, especially with mostly European judges on these WC panel past few years). Stereotype works, unfortunately, terribly backwards, but it seems the state of the world sigh...

I hardly think these teenagers ever aspire to grow up dreaming wanting to die on ice fall for men left them etc etc... I don't even want to get into the race issue. What positive message to wake up to, or to sell the sport to future generations. However if it means they have 80% chance of receiving higher marks than doing the latest cool, original and unfamiliar music for the 50+ judges, the safe bet is always Carmen, or Carmen equivalent for Asian people, + Mulan +Martial arts characters.

Look forward to the day regardless of where they are from OR whatever their gender can get to skate to the likes of Wonder Woman OST No dying, death or suicide on ice for a whole competition. Empowering, positive messages. Imagine that!

Exactly!!
I'm getting the distinct feeling from the previous posts here that Asian pieces are "owned" by Asians (not anyone from an actual country, just the whole of Asia), while most other music is fair game for anyone who wants to take it on.

I haven't been following the thread, but it is always a big yawn because the pattern is so obvious. It is like a laundry list for choreographers to recycle their work if your client is Asian. (Or do skaters themselves actually select these?) There are much much more out there thats are interesting without resorting to laziness. I would love Gracie / Kaetlyn / Anna doing a Madam Butterfly for a change.

-------------

Having ranted all that... I am an absolute huge Mirai fan, wish her the very best on her 3rd Olympic season!!!! My my... has it been that many years?!

 

[figurefan0726]

After the season ended, I actually wanted Mirai to skate to either Miss Saigon or Madame Butterfly because both of those music are dramatic and its the OLYMPIC SEASON and she might retire after this season. Im so happy she chose Miss Saigon! I hope she can kill it like how Satoko did!!

 

[Anni234]

I know there has been a fair amout of OT in this thread, but I have really enjoyed the discussions and viewpoints about using Miss Saigon and the background of it. I sincerely feel more educated, thank you!

 

[Jaana]

As with all skaters if a music suits her/him, it is a good choice. I see no restrictions there. Just remembering famous opera singers like Maria Callas and others giving wonderful performances of "Madame Butterfly"!!! And we have seen many Juliets and Romeos on opera stage over-aged and over-weighted ...

 

[Tavi...]

As a woman who is not Asian or of Asian descent, I don't feel I have the right to comment on the specific issues of how Asian women are portrayed in Western opera / theater. But without wishing to be at all dismissive of those issues, I did want to mention that the portrayal of Western woman as victim / pawn of men is also very, very common in opera and theater.

It's not really surprising: historically, Western women had few legal or social rights, and were in many cases considered property of their families and husbands. So, for example, Juliet is a pawn in the ongoing war between two powerful (male controlled) families; Tosca is manipulated by Scarpia to satisfy his lust; and the courtesan Violetta (La Traviata) is manipulated by her lover Alfredo's father to leave him, in order to ensure that his pure middle class daughter will be marriageable and not tainted by the relationship (i.e., to protect the value of his "property"), etc.

I guess I'm just trying to say that any woman who chooses to act / sing / skate to music from, say, Tosca or Romeo & Juliet, could also be viewed as perpetuating negative stereotypes. My guess is that few skaters consider this when choosing their music, but it's only a guess

 

[princessalica]

Well if you want a musical that I find offensive to all women, it's RH's Carousel. It is encouraging and justifying spousal abuse "When he hits me, it doesn't even really feel like a hit" Just finished a mater's class in Musical Theatre History. So there are controversial subjects for all when it comes to musical theatre and music! There was racial stereotyping in West Side Story. I mean Les Miserables, Fantine turned to prostitution. I think it boils down to that a skater should skate to what they want, they might like the music, they might like the story, and to take offense is an active choice.