Proposals to ISU Congress 2018-2019 Season

[LRK]

LOL at everyone debating the backloading proposal and saying it will promote the "same" layouts, because you're all missing the point -- if the PCS were actually judged accurately, no one would DARE to have the "same" layout for point grabs, they would get dinged for skating nonsensical, trash programs. Too bad there's nothing in there about making judging better or fair, the PCS/GOE split notwithstanding (and not even passing -- tells you something, doesn't it?).

That's ever the way, isn't it?

The Problem? The judges aren't implementing the rules properly.
The Solution? Change the rules.

That will solve everything.

Not.

Also, it's the easiest way, after all, and they are seen Doing Stuff.
"We are Doing Stuff. We are Doing Lots & Lots of Stuff. Look at us Doing Stuff!"

Even if it is the wrong Stuff...

 

[karne]

Interestingly, I was reading a rundown of the split-panels debate on the other forum, and it seems what really tripped the Netherlands up was exactly what I asked the delegate here: what about smaller competitions that don't have full panels? (Thankyou, Lakernik.) The Netherlands delegate refused to answer here and now I see why: they had no answer. They didn't even have an answer for when they thought the new system should be implemented!

I think the Netherlands should be an example of how not to put proposals to congress. They should actually think about what they're proposing, not just propose stuff willy-nilly so they can be first to propose it.

 

[lesnar001]

I hope everyone realizes that if they ban repeating quads, we will never see any quad combos in the FS again.

I certainly hope thats not the case.

I am actually hoping that some day I get to see someone perform a quad-quad combination in competition.

 

[Mathman]

I am actually hoping that some day I get to see someone perform a quad-quad combination in competition.

I think it will happen within the next two years. I think that both Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen could do it now if they worked on it.

 

[lesnar001]

I think it will happen within the next two years. I think that both Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen could do it now if they worked on it.

Yeah - I hope any rule changes won't discourage them from doing it. I would give them extra points just for having the guts to do it.

 

[moriel]

That's ever the way, isn't it?

The Problem? The judges aren't implementing the rules properly.
The Solution? Change the rules.

That will solve everything.

Not.

Also, it's the easiest way, after all, and they are seen Doing Stuff.
"We are Doing Stuff. We are Doing Lots & Lots of Stuff. Look at us Doing Stuff!"

Even if it is the wrong Stuff...

I don't think they are even trying to solve stuff.
They are just pretending they are doing things, to justify their feds paying them to travel to the congress, or whatever.
Some of those guys find USB sticks complicated, and we for some reason expect them to solve FS problems.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think they are even trying to solve stuff.

They are just pretending they are doing things, to justify their feds paying them to travel to the congress, or whatever.

I don't think so. I think that most of the people who are delegates to ISU congresses and are otherwise intimately involved with the sport are at least as passionate about about producing good rules as we are.

The question is, for all this diligent effort are the rules really getting any better or should we just go back to 6.0 and call it a day?

 

[Ice Dance]

The question is, for all this diligent effort are the rules really getting any better or should we just go back to 6.0 and call it a day?

The answer, of course, is that there is not a nice objective scale for measuring the quality of a rule.

Rules go into effect to deal with a present-day scenario. They sometimes work as far as dealing with that scenario, but then new issues arise because of those rule changes. And because athletes come up through the ranks having already mastered the skills of their predecessors, and then push the envelope in some new way. As those new issues arise, new rules have to be created. Either to discourage trends that impair the quality of the sport or to acknowledge athletes who face new athletic challenges. It's almost always going to be impossible to analyze the quality of a Code of Points revision when it happens.

Much easier to analyze one after the fact. Revising rules is part and parcel of IJS because with IJS everything has to be assigned a point total, and as long as athletes push the sport forward, then adjustments will have to be made for scoring.

But rules would be revised even without it. As many people have pointed out today, the Zayak rule was created to limit a trend decades ago, long before IJS. And the no-tights rule also. And, one would assume, the format in which music should be delivered for a competition.

So some of all this hard work would happen, even should 6.0 return. Plus all the hard work that would be required because 6.0 returned.

 

[Fruitpie]

What I don't understand about new backloading rule, if one would jump all 7 jumping passes on the 1st minute of programm, will he still get those bonus points?

 

[chopinskate]

What I don't understand about new backloading rule, if one would jump all 7 jumping passes on the 1st minute of programm, will he still get those bonus points?

I think it says that the last three jumping passes also have to be in the back half to gain the bonus.

 

[xeyra]

What I don't understand about new backloading rule, if one would jump all 7 jumping passes on the 1st minute of programm, will he still get those bonus points?

No. The ruling specifically says second half, so only 3 last jump passes in the second half receive a bonus. If all jumps are on the first half, none receives it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Can I just say that regardless of where anyone stands on the issues at hand it’s been very interesting that the ISU decided to broadcast the Congress this year. I’m very thankful that they did this and appreciate everyone who is offering up their opinions. Not only does it make the off-season a little better but I think it’s going to go a long way to improve the sport. Especially the knowledge this transparency gives those of us not present. I do think it’s a positive and adds a bit of character to the whole thing.

People like to harp on the ISU and I’m guilty of it myself at times but at the end of the day they have done a good amount to improve transparency. Let’s not lose sight of the progress and good things that they bring to us each season too.

I hope they can continue down this path and that the delagates and ISU officials feel comfortable coming here and discussing this stuff with us as well as fans new and old. We’re all in this together after all

 

[moriel]

I don't think so. I think that most of the people who are delegates to ISU congresses and are otherwise intimately involved with the sport are at least as passionate about about producing good rules as we are.

The question is, for all this diligent effort are the rules really getting any better or should we just go back to 6.0 and call it a day?

I disagree.
I've been watching the congress and...
Many proposals are very raw and not well thought. They look a lot like that awesome idea you have literally 5 minutes before a meeting, and then present as if you had been working on it for weeks. The USB discussion is a great example. Or some of the Netherland's proposals, as people pointed out. Also, a few proposals have been dismissed because "we already discussed it on last congress" - I mean, is it that hard to check what has been done previously? Or they don't keep track?
Or look at how the voting of the Canadian and Japanese backloading proposals went =D That was... very random.
Also, quite a few people there don't seem familiar with modern technology, which is unacceptable. I mean, right now, we could maybe have neural networks identifying jumps and detecting URs in real time, while those folks can barely vote on their own voting software.

Maybe they are passionate, but just passion don't make good rules.

 

[rnois13]

Their struggle with the USB was enough to kill me yesterday. I hope the Dutch put a stronger case next year, I think they mean well but they really need to put a backbone on their proposals and not use personal opinions.

 

[Danny T]

The Figure Skating Congress is on right now: here

Summary so far:
- Separate Junior World ranking --> withdraw for now, but there will be working group to discuss this for season 2019-2020

- Judges from federation with no active competitors can enter the judging draw --> rejected

- To have a fixed number of entries in World Championship, meaning skaters with lower than minimum TES might be able to enter if there are empty spots --> rejected

Currently discussing the problem of spots for OWG, quite interesting

 

[Andrea82]

If I understand correctly, now the Technical Committee just proposed a new rule on allocating spots at Olympics

The proposal sounds like if for ex Spain gets 2 spots because of Fernandez.....number 2 needs to have qualified for FS at previous Worlds...otherwise, skater 2 needs to go to Qualifying competition along with the others.

 

[NoNameFace]

The Figure Skating Congress is on right now: here

Summary so far:
- Separate Junior World ranking --> withdraw for now, but there will be working group to discuss this for season 2019-2020

- Judges from federation with no active competitors can enter the judging draw --> rejected

- To have a fixed number of entries in World Championship, meaning skaters with lower than minimum TES might be able to enter if there are empty spots --> rejected

Currently discussing the problem of spots for OWG, quite interesting

thanks a lot for the recap!!!

Happy Wednesday everyone! I guess another day of confusion rodeo for us (with coffee breaks)

Is quad repetition voting today??

 

[Andrea82]

Bianchetti is using Italy as example

"our second lady is very weak" and qualified just because of Carolina

 

[tafattsbarn]

This congress has been so tragic i don't know what to do anymore ;-;

 

[chopinskate]

The Figure Skating Congress is on right now: here

Thanks for linking; I disliked.