Quad Axel

[Ophelia]

I wonder if Hanyu will continue pursuing the 4A for Worlds after his Nationals skates... even without a 4A attempt (or 4Z attempt), he made so many errors including a 3A< fall. Chalk it up to a bad day but he came 3rd (arguably should have been 4th) in the FS and lost to Uno who wasn’t even at full strength. I think for this season he’d be better off focusing on clean programs, and put the 4A on hold, to have even a shot against Chen. If his priority is landing the jump then go for it... but training it is evidently compromising the rest of his free program and gold medal hopes.

I feel like for Hanyu, 4A > gold medal hopes. It's not like he needs any more gold medals. The only reason he stuck around after his 2nd OGM was to land the 4A.

 

[lzxnl]

If Yuzuru stays healthy and competitive with Nathan come 2021, I'm sure he'll go for OGM #3

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

That said, he did just compete in Japan, then two weeks later in Italy, then two weeks later in Japan again, presumably flying back to Toronto in between (although I don't keep track of his full schedule).

He did. In my opinion, though I am an old person feeling more jetlag than younger ones (well, I know a muuuch younger one who was quite affected the day after and "under the weather" the next days), given all Yuzuru Hanyu needs of his strength to skate his free, even one jetlag does affect him (furthermore, as you say, he always arrives just before, certainly to be able to train in the best conditions at TCC as close to the championship as possible), these four weeks with three competitions in remote timezones and back home in between, were too much. I am just glad he is not injured.

 

[ladyjane]

I think for Yuzu, just landing the 4A in a competition (preferably at Worlds) is the most important thing. More important than being WC again. Although probably winning 4CC is also a thing for him. He wants to win Worlds as well, but losing to Chen (or Shoma) is less important than achieving the goal of getting that 4A clean. He's terribly competitive so of course he wants to win as well, but I think that after winning everything, being the first guy to win two Olympic titles in a row after so many years for example, he has personal goals that don't have much to do with ordinary wins (and no, this is not meant to be negative, he is the GOAT after all) but do have to do a lot with what he wants to achieve for himself. I want him healthy (the most important thing), perhaps even winning a third Olympics. but I would first of all want him to achieve his own goals. Like the 4A. Oh yes!

 

[waltzjump2]

If Yuzuru stays healthy and competitive with Nathan come 2021, I'm sure he'll go for OGM #3

ahhh I guess I’ve given up on keeping this thread not about Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu. It would be interesting(not sure if that’s the right word) if both Nathan and Yuzuru retire after OG 2022 (I thought I saw something about 2022 being Nathan’s goal)

 

[1111bm]

Yuzuru said so himself, in more than 1 interview, after GPF. He knew Nathan was going to do 5 quad LP at GPF & did the calculations. And felt he wouldnt win anyway with the 13 pt gap from SP. This I agree.

Wasnt Nathan LP score at GPF 225? 225 vs 212 . Even if Yuzuru did a clean 5 quad LP, with an avg +3 GOE on his jumps, his score would only be ard 222.
I not that good in maths also I can make the calculations, what more Yuzuru.

You know very well Nathan did not jump 5 quads in both his GPs.

'Competition setting' as in competition ice. GPF was the 1st time he's shown the 4A in public.

Yes, but it's also a fact that Nathan already struggled with executing 'only' four quads in both of his GP assignments (doubled one at SA and had several messy landings in France).
So even though he had five weeks to work some more on his shape, why should we or Yuzuru assume that he's suddenly, definitely capable of delivering a clean 5 quad program?
Imagine if Nathan had skated the way he did in France, only with an additional quad, and Yuzuru had delivered a clean performance similar to his SC skate...

 

[alexaa]

Yuzuru said so himself, in more than 1 interview, after GPF. He knew Nathan was going to do 5 quad LP at GPF & did the calculations. And felt he wouldnt win anyway with the 13 pt gap from SP. This I agree.

'Competition setting' as in competition ice. GPF was the 1st time he's shown the 4A in public.

This is not true. Nathan didn’t have a definite plan to put in 5 quads at GPF, from Phil Hersh’s article after GPF. He was only practicing it with the potential to put in. They only made the 5 quad decision after seeing Yuzuru trying 4lz and quad axel.

They made the decision to attempt the fifth quad after watching Hanyu nailing quad Lutzes and attempting quad Axels in practice. In the free, Hanyu would do just the second quad Lutz of his career – and it was a beauty – after opening with an excellent quad loop.

“I was doing the fifth quad in practice with the intention to potentially put it in,” Chen said. “Because of what I saw him (Hanyu) doing, I realized this was the time to try it.”

I don’t understand why Nathan is in the discussion. He is not planning to do quad axel. He has his own plan to approach the season.

 

[alexaa]

I wonder if Hanyu will continue pursuing the 4A for Worlds after his Nationals skates... even without a 4A attempt (or 4Z attempt), he made so many errors including a 3A< fall. Chalk it up to a bad day but he came 3rd (arguably should have been 4th) in the FS and lost to Uno who wasn’t even at full strength. I think for this season he’d be better off focusing on clean programs, and put the 4A on hold, to have even a shot against Chen. If his priority is landing the jump then go for it... but training it is evidently compromising the rest of his free program and gold medal hopes.

This is what Yuzuru said about Nathan in one of his interviews
https://twitter.com/pumpkin875/status/1204090173996314624?s=20
https://twitter.com/pumpkin875/status/1204090177368608768?s=20

Interview with Shuzo Matsuoka 2

S: What do you think Nathan Chen has delivered you as a message at this time?
Y: Well.......’This is not the limit, it’s like this not the limit’
S: I feel like this made your skating life longer, just in my opinion.
Y: hahaha (giggles)

S: Thank You Nathan Chen!! I feel like to say it.
Y: If he wasn’t there, I could have get a World title by a ranking order. (But if it did,) Perhaps I was burned out. My body could have.
Right now, the bottom of a candle, the place where the candle burns most is at the bottom,

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This is not true. Nathan didn’t have a definite plan to put in 5 quads at GPF, from Phil Hersh’s article after GPF. He was only practicing it with the potential to put in. They only made the 5 quad decision after seeing Yuzuru trying 4lz and quad axel.



I don’t understand why Nathan is in the discussion. He is not planning to do quad axel. He has his own plan to approach the season.

Chen is in the discussion because that is the person Hanyu is incorporating the 4A to beat. Maybe if Chen weren’t competing he would feel less pressure trying it - and IMO if it were ready he should have tried the 4A in his GP events where Nathan isn’t there.

As Chen pointed out, he saw that Hanyu was landing the lutz but adapted because he had a contingency plan if Hanyu has upgraded and clearly Chen executed it knowing it was within his capability. If Hanyu starts magically landing a 4A with consistency you’ll see Chen add the 4F to the SP but he’s not going to train a 4A because he still wants to win and a 4A would compromise his training and health. If Hanyu is on a mission to do it, fine let him go for it, but it’s not exactly going to upset Chen’s apple cart.

I mean look at Nationals... he didn’t go for either the 4Z or 4A and had one of his worst skates ever (and I don’t buy the exhaustion excuses after he turned out that sublime SP, and made silly errors in his LP — if he had the energy to do a 3A+3T and a 4S he could have still avoided errors on his lutz and axel).

The problem for Hanyu now is that his #1 status is diminished because of Uno’s win — and people can blame judging but the reality is the judges didn’t make him do all those errors. He needs 4CC not to just get a gold there but to also regain confidence. Trying a 4A is a massive gamble if he goes for it, and he should focus more on just regaining the lutz and avoiding other costly errors.

 

[eaglehelang]

This is not true. Nathan didn’t have a definite plan to put in 5 quads at GPF, from Phil Hersh’s article after GPF. He was only practicing it with the potential to put in. They only made the 5 quad decision after seeing Yuzuru trying 4lz and quad axel.



I don’t understand why Nathan is in the discussion. He is not planning to do quad axel. He has his own plan to approach the season.

I am just paraphrasing what Yuzuru said in interviews. If I remember correctly, Nathan did do 5 quads at official practices right? It's in the practice reports. So Yuzuru had to prepare for that.

For sure I recall Yuzuru said 2X - he knew he wouldnt win GPF anyway, so why not, go for
it. As in test out 5 quad layout.

Other than it, it looked like Yuzuru was practising jumping higher. There was a certain purpose of doing that, not just for the 4A. He jumped & landed on 2 feet before trying out the 4A.


Well, I was only replying to that forumer who keeps bringing up abt Yuzuru being reckless to try the 4A at practice and its connection to Nathan.

In which for some of us, Yuzuru already announced so publicly he is going for the 4A right after 2018 OG, almost 2 years ago. When asked by reporters, Yuzuru has said he will jump the 4A in competition. He will see it thru, he announce to whole world already, of course must do(which for us Asians it a no brainer). Nothing to do with rivalry with Nathan or points thingy.

Like Yuzuru said at the Japan Nationals press con, he can incorporate two 4Lutz if he wanted more points but thats not his goal.

 

[DSQ]

Who else do we know is training the 4A, do we have a list?

* Hanyu
* Dimitriev Jr.
* ???

 

[skatenewbie]

Who else do we know is training the 4A, do we have a list?

* Hanyu
* Dimitriev Jr.
* ???

Keegan Messing used to attempt it in harness but idk if he's practicing it now

 

[DSQ]

Keegan Messing used to attempt it in harness but idk if he's practicing it now

I wouldn’t blame him if he takes a break.

So so far:

* Hanyu
* Dimitriev Jr.
* Messing
* ???

 

[champagnerain]

Keegan Messing used to attempt it in harness but idk if he's practicing it now

For those curious, Keegan attepmting a 4A in harness and out of harness.

 

[lzxnl]

His out-of-harness attempt just doesn't seem high enough

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

His out-of-harness attempt just doesn't seem high enough

I’d say that’s the case for all quad axel attempts... Dmitriev’s looked high enough but needed a fast rotational speed like Hanyu.

 

[Farnaz]

I'm posting Hanyu's interview after Japan national here where he mentions 4A. Honestly, I don't know if it is right to post it here or not. People start making a spectrum of interpretation from his comments and judge his character and it ends up in a battle between people who attack him and the others who defend him. However, I think it's good if non-Japanese viewer and fans of the sport see that he is not a silent athlete. On the contrary, he is so vocal about the sport and his own skating. He is so critical about his skating that it makes it even a bit sad.

https://twitter.com/axelsandwich/status/1209292168243765249?s=20

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'm posting Hanyu's interview after Japan national here where he mentions 4A. Honestly, I don't know if it is right to post it here or not. People start making a spectrum of interpretation from his comments and judge his character and it ends up in a battle between people who attack him and the others who defend him. However, I think it's good if non-Japanese viewer and fans of the sport see that he is not a silent athlete. On the contrary, he is so vocal about the sport and his own skating. He is so critical about his skating that it makes it even a bit sad.

https://twitter.com/axelsandwich/status/1209292168243765249?s=20

He underperformed at the GPF and again at Nationals, compared to the very high standard he's set in the past. It's strange if he says his primary goal is to land the 4A, but then is disappointed when he doesn't win events. The field is too strong for him to try to achieve winning competitions and landing the 4A.

 

[Interspectator]

He underperformed at the GPF and again at Nationals, compared to the very high standard he's set in the past. It's strange if he says his primary goal is to land the 4A, but then is disappointed when he doesn't win events. The field is too strong for him to try to achieve winning competitions and landing the 4A.

These two things don’t seem mutually exclusive at all to me. It’s simply a high bar. Perhaps unattainable, but when has that ever stopped Yuzu from giving it his best try?
I mean, if Yuzu listened to ‘common sense’ advice from us fans, he may never have attempted the loop and lutz in competition either.

 

[Farnaz]

He underperformed at the GPF and again at Nationals, compared to the very high standard he's set in the past. It's strange if he says his primary goal is to land the 4A, but then is disappointed when he doesn't win events. The field is too strong for him to try to achieve winning competitions and landing the 4A.

I agree with Interspectator. He mentions it is a struggle. Why is it a struggle? Because he does not want to become a "fossil". He wants to win but not because he is a legend or he has reputation or advantage in artistry. He wants to win because he brings something new to the table, because he is able to keep up with the race. It is hard at his age, most other people would give up easily. But he keeps fighting. Some may think it is insane, some other think it is admirable :agree: