Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

We don't even know if Nathan Chen is homophobic or not. Why must we force him to support gay people if he is homophobic? On the other hand, without knowing if he even supports gay people or not, why must we cancel him and be disappointed that he did not say anything? Why can't we give him time to just come into his own views and express freely?

What the...?!? We can presume that until he exhibits homophobia, he is not homophobic. And to entertain the possibility that anyone is discriminatory without anything to substantiate it is hugely disrespectful to them. Are some honestly suggesting that Chen is homophobic until he unfollows Yagudin on Instagram or makes a statement decrying Yagudin’s statement.

Should we entertain the possibility that every skater who continues to follow Yagudin on Instagram or every skater who doesn’t denounce Yagudin’s statements by default supports homophobia and transphobia? Come on.

 

[plushyfan]

I don't think this thread is about Plushenko. The rivalry between him and Yagudin had more to do with Mishkin than anything else. Who was best is a moot point right now. They were both outstanding skaters and both had different styles. Both excelled at their sport and both reaped the rewards. It really doesn't matter because it was a long time ago. If I remember correctly, Yags left Mishkin and went to Tarasova because he was not getting the attention from his coach because of Plushenko. Please don't derail the thread by going back over very OLD history. The fact is - Yagudin has made some terrible remarks about other skaters and shouldn't get away with it.

You was the first who mentioned him

 

[TallyT]

Can everyone stop talking about Chen, Kwan et al, pleeeeaaaaase? (And can I personally just thank every god and fate in existence that my dear favourite boy made the wiser than he could possibly know at the time decision to eschew the whole social media swamp? Would that more of them did...)

To be honest, I think the whole thing's been thrashed out unless or until Yagudin opens his mouth again and transfers feet. Should the thread be closed till then?

 

[Skatesocs]

What the...?!?

Your qualm isn't with me. I don't even know how you read what was happening in the thread before that and yet came to that conclusion I'm not the one canceling him based off his silence I neither know nor care about his stance on this subject. People are free to interpret my words in the way they see fit though.

Here's the full context of that post for anyone who is interested:

But this is where I disagree. Maybe 21 year olds have something great to say, we can judge that by the worth of their comments. But overwhelmingly, like this poster for instance, we see people being forced to say something or get cancelled. Like Zhou got cancelled, at 17. Why is there no slack for this "life experience" part among the masses?

We don't even know if Nathan Chen is homophobic or not. Why must we force him to support gay people if he is homophobic? On the other hand, without knowing if he even supports gay people or not, why must we cancel him and be disappointed that he did not say anything? Why can't we give him time to just come into his own views and express freely?

 

[kolyadafan2002]

This thread feels like it's going in circles. Let me just make a short statement on my view, and if people disagree they can take me up on it:

- Yagudin said something malicious. He should be sanctioned somehow - or at least a statement condemning it.
- Yagudin should not have any skating achievements removed. This is not how this sport works.
- Rippon's response was perfect for me.
- Other skaters should be kept out of it unless they choose to get involved (What has Nathan Chen got to do with any of this!?!?!?!)
- You are allowed to follow people you disagree with.
- You shouldn't be punished for your thoughts - only your actions. In this case Yagudin's actions were unacceptable.

 

[Skatesocs]

I really think this thread should be closed now

 

[ladyjane]

This thread feels like it's going in circles. Let me just make a short statement on my view, and if people disagree they can take me up on it:

- Yagudin said something malicious. He should be sanctioned somehow - or at least a statement condemning it.
- Yagudin should not have any skating achievements removed. This is not how this sport works.
- Rippon's response was perfect for me.
- Other skaters should be kept out of it unless they choose to get involved (What has Nathan Chen got to do with any of this!?!?!?!)
- You are allowed to follow people you disagree with.
- You shouldn't be punished for your thoughts - only your actions. In this case Yagudin's actions were unacceptable.

Excellent summary and concluding remarks.

 

[noskates]

Adam Rippon is successful and well known in the US. (not saying compared to Brad Pitt, but compared to the average figure skater, one of the most well-known).
He has established a career outside of skating and appears to be moving forward with it. Adam's sense of self-worth at the point has little to do with any of his skating accomplishments, and in fact, has exceeded them. And he is far far far more famous in the US, where he makes his living, than Alexei. (and I am sure it is vice versa in Russia )

No need to feel sorry for him, he's doing quite well.

Totally agree!!! Not to mention he's more current and recognizable in the US.

BUT.....snarking on other skaters in this thread certainly doesn't make Yagudin look any better. He attacked Rippon - Rippon responded. Why should anyone feel sorry for Adam? I'm guessing Adam speaks for a lot of skaters who feel the same way about Yagudin's remarks.

(where is that "beating a dead horse" emoticon when you need it!)

 

[Alex D]

I don´t think that any athlete, be it current or past, should be stripped of his / her achievements, unless that person did wrong during the actual competition. Sports is about who is the best athlete, not about who fits in best with our society or the mindset of said.

While I disagree with the procedure of calling out people in public and feel that you should focus on the positive while commentating, its not unusual that former top athletes are very critical towards the next generations. They just look at things different than we non world class athletes do and you could argue that they might have a right to do so, as they were on the top of their sport.

Not having a quad seems like a big issue for many, maybe comparable to a tennis player not having won a Grand Slam (poor Safina), football player no world cup titles, NFL dude no ring etc.

In the end I think that some thoughts, should remain in our heads, as even a simple comment about how someone looks or does something, can leave big scars.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I'm absolutely baffled that I wandered into this thread to find Nathan being dragged through mud for something that has nothing to do with him.

I've decided I'm going to blame Nathan next time Australia has another drought.... or flood. Clearly he didn't use his powers to stop it!!! Shame on him!

 

[lucyrose]

Only in the perverse world of Golden Skate is it unacceptable to want prominent figures to speak out against homophobia within the sport. You’d think your asking for their first born.

This issue has to do with everyone in the sport of figure skating whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

 

[plushyfan]

Only in the perverse world of Golden Skate is it unacceptable to want prominent figures to speak out against homophobia within the sport. You’d think your asking for their first born.

This issue has to do with everyone in the sport of figure skating whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

What is your problem? You are angry! Always

 

[lucyrose]

Unchecked homophobia and hatred has that effect on most decent people.

 

[Mathman]

Are some honestly suggesting that Chen is homophobic until he unfollows Yagudin on Instagram or makes a statement decrying Yagudin’s statement.

No. No one is suggesting that.

Some people are saying that famous skaters have a duty to speak up. Others feel that, no, they have no such responsibility.

 

[Skatesocs]

And some are saying we would give away our first born instead of seeing famous skaters speak up because we are hateful and homophobic

Sorry, but this thread has twisted and turned so much it's a parody now I fully acknowledge being a part of it!

 

[1111bm]

No. No one is suggesting that.

Some people are saying that famous skaters have a duty to speak up. Others feel that, no, they have no such responsibility.

Er, no.

Some people have clearly stated, that they feel prominent skaters (such as Nathan Chen) are complicit in the homophobia and are not that much better than Yagudin, because they have not unfollowed him or spoken up about the issue.

And yes, some other people have stated, that 'for all we know' Nathan could possibly be homophobic. When really, there's nothing suggesting such a thing, so it seems a rather weird notion, almost like they truly suspect him of it.

 

[Skatesocs]

No. No one is suggesting that.

Some people are saying that famous skaters have a duty to speak up. Others feel that, no, they have no such responsibility.

Thank you for understanding what I was saying! I think maybe my ravings on free speech are not fit for a skating forum though. Seems like this other person got confused too, along with assuming "not knowing or caring" automatically means suspecting him of it lol. That was about him being canceled for not saying anything. Not even lucyrose thinks he *is* homophobic, just that he's complicit if he doesn't speak. These nuances are perhaps again lost in a crowd that doesn't have any need for this sort of debate and so no need for picking these things up... So again I wish it would be closed


1111bm, if you are talking about me, I'm fine with you assuming that and whatever intent or stance on Chen you believe I have, just know that it's my way of trying to convey that Chen has the right to be whichever way he sees fit, and do whatever he sees fit. :yes: and that he can do so without people canceling him, which is what I'm annoyed with lol.

 

[macy]

why is this thread still open

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Everyone has had their say on the topic of the thread, "Should the ISU take a stance on the comments of Alexei Yagudin".

The thread is now closed.