The Legend Begins

[Sabrina]

This is my legendary program...I mostly discovered this program on youtube, and also fell in love with the slow part music. I ended buying all CDs I could find with Francis Lai. I had no idea he composed Love Story's music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1_QiK85KRg

 

[Heleng]

https://youtu.be/cyu8GYBRIjE

 

[iluvtodd]

https://youtu.be/cyu8GYBRIjE

Oh, yeah!

 

[koatcue]

Had this feeling with Yulia the most. Also this ladies hypehypeHYPE skating started when Adelina was a junior (her junior rivalry with Liza T)

 

[Arriba627]

https://youtu.be/cyu8GYBRIjE

Phenomenal. I'm crying again just watching.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Skate America, 2013, the very first day of practices.

During the men's practices, I noticed a guy. The other men were doing run-throughs of their programs (1) with (most) or (2) without (Artur Gachinko) their jumps. Another, Max Aaron, seemingly didn't want to do anything but skate to the opposite end of the rink, build up speed, and try his quad in front of me.

But this skater unknown to me danced and boogied with every piece of music that came on: the other men's program music, his own, and even the bits where generic music was on. He was quietly joyful. He seemed not to try to attract attention, but rather to put emotion, music and care into every single movement on the ice. He was quietly charismatic. His skating was mature. He had a ponytail.

Later that week-end, he wowed us all with his Prince Question of U SP, with which he came 2nd. The audience loved him. When he did his Riverdance FS, it didn't matter that he fell once. Everyone was in love, and elated. We knew we were being gifted with something very special. For the gala, he skated with great effect to U Can't Touch This. Jason Brown skates with heart and desire to make people happy. Beginning of story, To Be Continued, hopefully for many years to come.

I'm sure you were extremely impressed and moved but Jason Brown, a legend? Without a single Worlds medal or any major international title, nor any history making skills or circumstances like Jin, Chen and Fernandez, will he be in a league with Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambial, Chan, Hanyu, et al?

 

[Violet Bliss]

https://youtu.be/cyu8GYBRIjE

A legendary skate indeed!

 

[el henry]

I'm sure you were extremely impressed and moved but Jason Brown, a legend? Without a single Worlds medal or any major international title, nor any history making skills or circumstances like Jin, Chen and Fernandez, will he be in a league with Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambial, Chan, Hanyu, et al?

We have no idea how Jason will be remembered. Then again, sorry, we have no idea how Patrick will be remembered. Or Yuzu. Only Kurt would I say has been around long enough for application of the word legend.

Medals? Titles? Meh. How many international titles did the *original* legend of men's figure skating win?

As the original, all-time fangirl for Toller, I know which current skater's programs I would rather see, certainly over Boyang and Nathan, and most days over the others. And that's Jason's. And I'm very glad Skylark shared that post. As, evidently, were many other GSers.....

YMMV.

 

[Violet Bliss]

We have no idea how Jason will be remembered. Then again, sorry, we have no idea how Patrick will be remembered. Or Yuzu. Only Kurt would I say has been around long enough for application of the word legend.

Medals? Titles? Meh. How many international titles did the *original* legend of men's figure skating win?

As the original, all-time fangirl for Toller, I know which current skater's programs I would rather see, certainly over Boyang and Nathan, and most days over the others. And that's Jason's. And I'm very glad Skylark shared that post. As, evidently, were many other GSers.....

YMMV.

Toller Cranston's influence on figure skating is immense. Another great innovator is Gary Beacom. I don't see Brown being in their league either.

And Cranston was not the original legend. I didn't go far back but was only citing Brown's contemporaries and recent predecessors.

As for Patrick, besides his dominance, he started the new era of quads with intricate superb foot work. Hanyu is the original multi quadster with great skating skills.

 

[4everchan]

We have no idea how Jason will be remembered. Then again, sorry, we have no idea how Patrick will be remembered. Or Yuzu. Only Kurt would I say has been around long enough for application of the word legend.

Medals? Titles? Meh. How many international titles did the *original* legend of men's figure skating win?

As the original, all-time fangirl for Toller, I know which current skater's programs I would rather see, certainly over Boyang and Nathan, and most days over the others. And that's Jason's. And I'm very glad Skylark shared that post. As, evidently, were many other GSers.....

YMMV.

nothing against jason either.. but to me the idea here if we don't go for medals, is that the skater would have special skills, out of this world special skills. For instance, Lucinda Ruh with her spins, or Surya with her backflip and craze quest for quads and gymnast-like qualities... Toller would be one of these legends, fitting in the category of having changed the sport. When I think about males doing amazing spins and spirals other names come to my mind that do them better than Jason... for instance Shawn Sawyer : his flexibility and his positions are much more impressive, so is his creativity.

Of course YMMV

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

 

[Violet Bliss]

nothing against jason either.. but to me the idea here if we don't go for medals, is that the skater would have special skills, out of this world special skills. For instance, Lucinda Ruh with her spins, or Surya with her backflip and craze quest for quads and gymnast-like qualities... Toller would be one of these legends, fitting in the category of having changed the sport. When I think about males doing amazing spins and spirals other names come to my mind that do them better than Jason... for instance Shawn Sawyer : his flexibility and his positions are much more impressive, so is his creativity.

Of course YMMV

And Lambiel, who is also super expressive and artistic. As was John Curry in his artistry.

Jin and Chen have both made their marks with quads even though they haven't had other amazing accomplishments, yet. Even history making Quad King Kevin Reynolds is not among the league of legends.

 

[4everchan]

And Lambiel, who is also super expressive and artistic. As was John Curry in his artistry.

Jin and Chen have both made their marks with quads even though they haven't had other amazing accomplishments, yet. Even history making Quad King Kevin Reynolds is not among the league of legends.

but jin and chen are young and we will see what happens with them in the future.... isn't Boyang the first of his country with a medal at WC? that could play a factor here.

 

[Tavi...]

I'm sure you were extremely impressed and moved but Jason Brown, a legend? Without a single Worlds medal or any major international title, nor any history making skills or circumstances like Jin, Chen and Fernandez, will he be in a league with Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambial, Chan, Hanyu, et al?

You know, the thread is titled, "The Legend Begins." The OP asks, in part, "what are your favorite memories of first seeing something that you knew would grow into something great." Implicit in the question is the idea that at some point, the "legend's" story has not been fully written. If skylark believes that Jason will one day become a legend, regardless of whether you agree, why shouldn't she mention him?

And by the way, to take one of your examples, I would say that while being the first guy to land 5 quads in a program is certainly noteworthy, there's no guarantee that in 20 or 50 years that accomplishment will be anything more than a historical footnote. And as to the value of medals, I think about it this way: every year, three guys win World medals. How many of them do we remember, and what do we remember them for? In the case of Denis Ten, for example, the gold medal he didn't win seems to loom larger in many people's minds than the medals he's actually won.

 

[Violet Bliss]

You know, the thread is titled, "The Legend Begins." The OP asks, in part, "what are your favorite memories of first seeing something that you knew would grow into something great." Implicit in the question is the idea that at some point, the "legend's" story has not been fully written. If skylark believes that Jason will one day become a legend, regardless of whether you agree, why shouldn't she mention him?

And by the way, to take one of your examples, I would say that while being the first guy to land 5 quads in a program is certainly noteworthy, there's no guarantee that in 20 or 50 years that accomplishment will be anything more than a historical footnote. And as to the value of medals, I think about it this way: every year, three guys win World medals. How many of them do we remember, and what do we remember them for? In the case of Denis Ten, for example, the gold medal he didn't win seems to loom larger in many people's minds than the medals he's actually won.

I mentioned some skaters as having made their marks but they haven't had many other amazing accomplishments, yet, to make them legendary. But they are so young and we don't know where their career will take them. Jason is a very good and well loved skater but he should be in his prime now and there isn't that much time left for him to pile up amazing accomplishments. Even winning the next OGM or breaking WR will not suffice. I don't see how he could make a great impact on the sport. I brought up Reynalds too as someone who has definitely earned a place in figure skating history but I don't think he will be remembered as a legend. He too has run out of time.

Brown needs a miracle event to become a legend in figure skating.

 

[Tavi...]

I mentioned some skaters as having made their marks but they haven't had many other amazing accomplishments, yet, to make them legendary. But they are so young and we don't know where their career will take them. Jason is a very good and well loved skater but he should be in his prime now and there isn't that much time left for him to pile up amazing accomplishments. Even winning the next OGM or breaking WR will not suffice. I don't see how he could make a great impact on the sport. I brought up Reynalds too as someone who has definitely earned a place in figure skating history but I don't think he will be remembered as a legend. He too has run out of time.

Brown needs a miracle event to become a legend in figure skating.

I think what you don't get is that not everyone values the same things you do, nor do they measure by the same yardstick. Not everyone has the rigid idea that only certain accomplishments are valuable in life, and that you must pile up a certain number of them, like glittering treasure, in quick succession, or you won't become a "legend," whatever that means.

Incidentally, if a brilliant skater like Hanyu is able to appreciate and publicly acknowledge what Jason has accomplished, you might ask yourself why you can't.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I think what you don't get is that not everyone values the same things you do, nor do they measure by the same yardstick. Not everyone has the rigid idea that only certain accomplishments are valuable in life, and that you must pile up a certain number of them, like glittering treasure, in quick succession, or you won't become a "legend," whatever that means.

Incidentally, if a brilliant skater like Hanyu is able to appreciate and publicly acknowledge what Jason has accomplished, you might ask yourself why you can't.

So what makes a skater a legend for you? I acknowledge that Jason is worthy of much love and appreciation by his fans but that's not enough or else half the skaters would be legends. Hanyu and Plushenko are not my favorites but I reckon their amazing accomplishments and crazy fan support would put them up there among the all time greats. It's a very elite club. i agree with 4verchan that it takes lots of major titles and/or other extraordinary accomplishments to get in.

 

[Tavi...]

So what makes a skater a legend for you? I acknowledge that Jason is worthy of much love and appreciation by his fans but that's not enough or else half the skaters would be legends. Hanyu and Plushenko are not my favorites but I reckon their amazing accomplishments and crazy fan support would put them up there among the all time greats. It's a very elite club. i agree with 4verchan that it takes lots of major titles and/or other extraordinary accomplishments to get in.

To be honest, it's not a term I use much. But:

The Oxford Dictionary describes a "legend," in pertinent part, as "A traditional tale popularly regarded as historical; an inauthentic story regarded as true. Such stories collectively. A person about whom such stories are told; a subject of legend; a very famous or notorious person. Frequently in 'a legend in one's (own) lifetime, a legend in one's (own) time.'"

It gives as an example of the latter, "Hawker was...a legend by this time in his work seeking to rescue...sailors."

It goes on to define "legendary" as an adjective, in pertinent part, as "[p]ertaining to or of the nature of a legend; based on a legend; celebrated or related in legend; very famous or notorious."

In short, the idea is supremely broad and incredibly subjective: a person or an event can be "legendary" or "notorious" for all the wrong reasons - see, e.g., Bonnie & Clyde - or for no reason at all - see, e.g., Kim Kardashian - as well as for doing something worthwhile like saving sailors or discovering the theory of relativity. There's no suggestion in the definition that only a particular body of work or set of accomplishments "qualifies" someone for legendary status, nor is there any sense of a time frame, that at some point it's "too late" to gain legendary status. To bring this back to figure skating, being "legendary" doesn't necessarily equate with being an "all time great"; for some people, Anna Pogorilaya's repeated, spectacular falls last year may qualify as "legendary" in the negative sense.

I find it interesting that you acknowledge Hanyu and Plushenko among the all time greats in figure skating in part because of their "crazy fan support." Why is that even meaningful? And if it is, don't you have to take into account Jason's innate ability to connect with people - whether in competition or far outside the world of figure skating - in a way that most other skaters don't? He regularly brings entire audiences - not just small groups of uber-fans - to their feet. Three years after his Riverdance FS at 2014 Nats went viral on YouTube, it was recently reposted on FB, where it got more than 10 million views as well as thousands of shares and comments. He may not touch you, personally. His ability to connect with audiences is not something easily quantifiable like the number of medals someone has won. But I believe you're mistaken in overlooking it.

 

[elbkup]

For purposes of this particular thread, the definition of "legend" may be the question here.
If it only means medals earned/tities won for some, that's OK but often those who claim such distinction are absorbed by history.... Evan Lysacek won OGM but I rarely come across his name even in these hallowed pages.. and very young fans don't even know who he was. Evan skated against Johnny Weir who lost but Johnny is IMHO a candidate for legend status (love him or hate him), due mainly to the sum of his body of work and total contribution to the sport.. oh, yes, he won his fair share of medals too tho his struggles, both professional and personal makes him noteworthy.
Daisuke Takahashi is another legend who has stayed connected with the sport and fans long after his competitive career ended. His FF thread on this forum supports almost daily activity and he is highly visible as guide and mentor for this generation of skaters including Shomo and Yuzu who regard him with respect and affection.
Although Jason's career is reaching it's peak now, we will I'm sure hear from him for many years to come. He too has won his fair share of medals and he is a steely competitor who also managed to help save 3 competition spots for US men, under extreme pressure, not once but twice, love him or hate for it. Then, of course, there is Riverdance which went viral internationally in 2014 and again on St. Patrick's Day this year revived on FB and other social media. So, yes, he is without a doubt my idea of a legend in the making.
To me, the definition of legend includes honors/medals won, yes, but is hardly the whole picture... a skater whose sublime skating elicits joy from fans, who radiates love of the sport and takes ambassadorship to the highest level truly rounds out the true meaning of legend and Jason is well on his way. Medal winners who skate and disappear are those who failed to move fans in the final analysis which is sad.

 

[plushyfan]

I find it interesting that you acknowledge Hanyu and Plushenko among the all time greats in figure skating in part because of their "crazy fan support." Why is that even meaningful? And if it is, don't you have to take into account Jason's innate ability to connect with people - whether in competition or far outside the world of figure skating - in a way that most other skaters don't? He regularly brings entire audiences - not just small groups of uber-fans - to their feet. Three years after his Riverdance FS at 2014 Nats went viral on YouTube, it was recently reposted on FB, where it got more than 10 million views as well as thousands of shares and comments. He may not touch you, personally. His ability to connect with audiences is not something easily quantifiable like the number of medals someone has won. But I believe you're mistaken in overlooking it.

Hanyu's fans will answer you..I response you as a Plushenko fan. Plush's "crazy fans" ( popularity) is only one agument in his legendary status..

-his results ( titles, medalls)

-his fame ( he is a real world famous athlete)

-his records and achievements

-his longevity

- his shows

- he has legendary programs and if you want to know the most well-known program in figure skating that is the SEX BOMB. I don't know we like this fact or not.

summary: his role in figure skating's history makes him legendary