Top Senior Ladies jumps traits (Height, Speed, Prer, Delay)

[Elucidus]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/2269103.html

Finally second part of this extremely interesting statistics - albeit in Russian (you still can use google translate) but with clear enough graphics and tables. It covers seniors from this season (mostly russian and japanese) - however there are some words about juniors and japanese Ice Scope technology in introduction part of the article as well. Measurement methodology is explained in detail in his earlier articles from last season about the same jumps traits (however there were only height and rotation speed then) of juniors and seniors (you can found them if you click on author name there and scroll down the list). In short - mostly it was done with large amount of video frames measurements and some formulas from geometry and physics applied.
Enjoy! :agree:

P.S.: first part about junior ladies jumps statistics is here https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?77001

 

[Ziotic]

The first thing I noticed is that Satoka has a higher 2A than Alina and yet Alina gets +4s for that jump...

 

[DaNiCG]

Evgenia's 2A is also better than Alina and Sakoto, more height less PR, and get less GOE than Alina (I cant remember Sakoto GOE so..)

 

[yume]

The first thing I noticed is that Satoka has a higher 2A than Alina and yet Alina gets +4s for that jump...

Maybe because of harder transitions in and out, and jumping on music. The difference of height is not even wide. If it was a difference like 40cm against 30cm, that would be scandalous.

 

[Ziotic]

Maybe because of hatder transitions in and out, and jumping on music.

Yes but she doesn’t fulfill one of the 3 main point; good height, therefore according to the rules she should be capped at +3.

 

[yume]

True. So none of Zagitova and Satoko should get marks above that.
Though i think that with less transitions, Zagitova can improve her height.

 

[BillNeal]

Kostner has great jump qualities and should receive great GOEs when she returns. Proper technique, rotations done in the air, great height and distance, correct edges from takeoff to exit, nice air position, effortless, etc. Too bad that people only focus on her relatively longer entries and problems with consistency. But hey, it's harder to be as consistent when one doesn't cheat their jumps. Also, I appreciate that she is holding that exit edge instead of doing random transitions that have nothing to do with the music or program.

 

[Mawwerg]

Yes but she doesn’t fulfill one of the 3 main point; good height, therefore according to the rules she should be capped at +3.

Here's that perfect ISU problem - the definition of good height does not exist.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

 

[yume]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/2269103.html

Finally second part of this extremely interesting statistics - albeit in Russian (you still can use google translate) but with clear enough graphics and tables. It covers seniors from this season (mostly russian and japanese) - however there are some words about juniors and japanese Ice Scope technology in introduction part of the article as well. Measurement methodology is explained in detail in his earlier articles from last season about the same jumps traits (however there were only height and rotation speed then) of juniors and seniors (you can found them if you click on author name there and scroll down the list). In short - mostly it was done with large amount of video frames measurements and some formulas from geometry and physics applied.
Enjoy! :agree:

P.S.: first part about junior ladies jumps statistics is here https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?77001

Thanks, very informative.

This article confirms this:
1) Tsurkaya has huge jumps, and her toe jumps are huuuuuuuuuuuuge.
2) Tutkamysheva is a powerful jumper with correct technique
3) Higuchi and Yamashita have the most powerful jumps of Japanese field, with huge lutzes.
4) Miyahara has the tiniest jumps overall and the biggest pre-rotation.
5) The salchow is Medvedeva's best jump.
6) The double axel is Miyahara's best jump.

The surprises:
1) Tsurskaya is not the one with the last pre-rotation
2) The low placements of Sakamoto for almost every jump, and her being behind Medvedeva overall.
3) Some nice placements for Honda.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Also, I appreciate that she is holding that exit edge instead of doing random transitions that have nothing to do with the music or program.

This again :dance2:

#ThreadDerailer2000

 

[yume]

Kostner has great jump qualities and should receive great GOEs when she returns. Proper technique, rotations done in the air, great height and distance, correct edges from takeoff to exit, nice air position, effortless, etc. Too bad that people only focus on her relatively longer entries and problems with consistency. But hey, it's harder to be as consistent when one doesn't cheat their jumps. Also, I appreciate that she is holding that exit edge instead of doing random transitions that have nothing to do with the music or program.

Nice way to bring, again, the name of someone who have nothing to do with the topic (she's not in the article).

 

[neusw]

Kostner has great jump qualities and should receive great GOEs when she returns. Proper technique, rotations done in the air, great height and distance, correct edges from takeoff to exit, nice air position, effortless, etc. Too bad that people only focus on her relatively longer entries and problems with consistency. But hey, it's harder to be as consistent when one doesn't cheat their jumps. Also, I appreciate that she is holding that exit edge instead of doing random transitions that have nothing to do with the music or program.

Good for you. Again, just because you don't appreciate it doesn't mean it shouldn't get points.

 

[BillNeal]

This again :dance2:

#ThreadDerailer2000

2A deserving of high GOE with beautiful held exit edge with relation to the music: https://youtu.be/BxblyXdFzeM?t=193

Nice way to bring, again, the name of someone who have nothing to do with the topic (she's not in the article).

Like it or not, she is a top senior lady returning at Euros and competing. Her jumps are prime examples of what the rules describe as good quality.

 

[Ziotic]

Here's that perfect ISU problem - the definition of good height does not exist.

I feel it should, like it needs to be a certainty percentage of your height to be considered good height.

I also think we need to use technology to award the tech score. Judges can still do components but not tech. That way proper technique would be rewarded fairly.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I feel it should, like it needs to be a certainty percentage of your height to be considered good height.

I also think we need to use technology to award the tech score. Judges can still do components but not tech. That way proper technique would be rewarded fairly.

Proper technique in theory is an advantage in and of itself but it’s not worth any points. Height is so overrated in my opinion. Good landings that transition into meaningful choreography (figure skating) is far more important IMO.

Good height isn’t defined by a specific quantifiable value anyway. Skaters are all different sizes and shapes so that’s just meaningless. That’s why we have judges determining if the height is good relative to the speed, energy, and movement of the jump. We can’t ever have a quantifiable height that determines GOE.

I absolutely lol hard at ISU for the 3 holy bullets. It’s just so poorly implemented that we can’t help but laugh a little

 

[ioanna]

The article says that although Satoko is expectedly last in the rankings, her total height for all 6 jumps was slightly over 150 cm two years ago, while it's slightly over 180 now. Proof of her hard work to improve her jumps.

Also, Rika's 2A is 39 cm and she gets 51 cm for her 3A, that's amazing.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

2A deserving of high GOE with beautiful held exit edge with relation to the music: https://youtu.be/BxblyXdFzeM?t=193

I’m not the one besmirching skaters and attempting to belittle an entire technique/style. You won’t see me criticizing skaters for their preferred technique although I must add that edge on Caro’s exit was not held out very long IMO...at least compared to the glide in It’s actually a great jumping pass TBH and I think the judges are more than capable of sorting this stuff out.

But if we must bring skaters completely unrelated to the topic let me digress
https://youtu.be/JsO8AxKQnsE?t=59s

Great transition in and out in spite of average height. The entrance and exit are completely related to the musical composition and not only impresses but just as importantly expresses

To me transitions in and out add purpose to a program far more than height does but I don’t think it’s fair to expect every judge or fan to see it my way. I think though a lot of folks underestimate the value and impact of connecting programs this way. Glide and focus on basics is one pathway but not the only way to a great score.

 

[Ziotic]

I disagree that good height isn’t quantifiable, like I said it should be a percentage of the skaters height. That’s an exact quantity. Good speed, also quantifiable.

Good landing is actually not quantifiable.

It’s a disservice to the sport that proper technique isn’t worth more points but poor quality transitions are considered acceptable to increase value.

Transitions can be amazing in and out of jumps, provided they are completed with proper skating skills and technique (deep flowing edges with good speed). Alas in COP most aren’t.

How on earth would you begin to quantify meaningful choreography? That’s completely biases to ones personal skating style preferences.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

I ran this through Google Translate and “toe loop” is sometimes translated as “sheepskin coat.”