Triple Axel vs. Quads
- Thread starter maggieanne
- Start date
Not as the solo jump. They could do it in the combination. But unless they can put a triple afterward it won't really help with the base value of the program, and probably not with GOEs either.
yep.
Afaik, Artur Dmitriev may be learning one. Hanyu said he may train it later on.
UPD:
Also Messing: https://twitter.com/JacksonUltima/status/1012170706958708738
Dmitriev, no harness attempt: https://www.facebook.com/TheSkating...riev-jr-attempts-a-quad-axel/771389986316305/
Truly the holy grail of jumps. Anything beyond that is physically impossible.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
- Country
-
So Sasha and Anna can do 4z-3t in the sp ?
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Well actually you may have missed the point (literally lol). Certainly comparing certain current skaters but if all things being equal spins, step sequence and other jumps but you can't do a 3A versus 2A that is where the difference is I hope that makes sense the point is most ladies for their axel jump can only do a 2A that is the hgue difference. I think a lot of commentators would say a 2.5 pt BV difference is a lot in the Short program. But each to their own.
No, sorry for being unclear. I meant that 3A is allowed in the junior SP combination: the requirements are just two double jumps, a triple and a double, or two triples. Triple axel would count as a triple. No quads allowed.
If it gets to the point that a handful of junior men and junior ladies are doing quads in the freeskate, then the ISU might consider allowing quads in junior SPs. But we'd probably see it in senior ladies' SPs first, assuming we start seeing quads in senior ladies freeskates fairly regularly.
That's interesting because it presumably means you can do a routine of 3A-3T, 3Lz, 2A which would would gain you 2.7.2.0 respectively over a routine of 3Lz-3T/3Lo, 3F, 2A.
Given the 4.7 points you can get for the 3A in the LP, this may make it more likely in the future, especially as the back-loading rules have changed. I can't imagine you would have tried a 3A-3T in the 2nd half in the past, it would always have been in the first half, but your other jumps you could back-load them, and indeed looking at Rika's SP last year that's what she did - 3F-3T, 3Lz, 2A, all in the second half.
However now the best she could do would be to do the 3F-3T in the 2nd half, and effectively still lose 0.92 points in bonus because the 3Lz and 2A have to be in the first half, plus it would be more if she did the 3Lz in the 2nd half as a safety net in case she missed her combo in the first half.
Hence it might just be that the odds have swung just enough to get anyone good enough to do 3As and 3A-3Ts in juniors to actually do the latter in the SP. Will be interesting to see what happens.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
- Country
-
Probably impossible but people said quads were so who really knows.
A very common layout for the top senior men in the mid-1990s, before 3A as the solo axel or any quads were allowed in the SP.
But also before specific base values and second half bonuses.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2018
The 3A is tricky. The technique is so different from the rest. someone quoted Nathan earlier in the thread, how the 3A is about finesse and exact technique. The forward takeoff is so hard to control, i see quite a few of really good quad jumpers among senior males who still struggle with the 3A. I feel like the 3A might seem worth learning more than quads for ladies? Because we have witnessed senior ladies being able to keep it in their 20s but senior ladies with quads is still a question mark. So far it really feels like a race against time. Let's land quads while we can because we never know what will happen later. Only Eteri girls have managed to land quads in competition so far, i imagine it's because her team is always looking for new ways to score as much as possible and since they are usually consistent with their triples, quads seem like the next option. Eteri girls usually rotate fast and you can land quads without perfect technique and with heavy prerotation. It is a lot harder to cheat a 3A i feel (unless you're Evan Lysacek).
If i remember well Trusova said she tried the 3A first but couldn't do it so they moved to quads. She has a great 2A, really fast rotation and really high jumps so i am surprised the 3A did not work for her. Maybe she has too much power, making it harder for her to control the landings? :think:
If i remember well Trusova said she tried the 3A first but couldn't do it so they moved to quads. She has a great 2A, really fast rotation and really high jumps so i am surprised the 3A did not work for her. Maybe she has too much power, making it harder for her to control the landings? :think:
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
- Country
-
Didn't Sasha Trusova say in an interview they were specifically working on 3A but that it was harder for her than the quads, because of her tendency to go "up" rather than "out" with her jumps? Aka she doesn't cover as much distance as the 3A needs. It was interesting. The comment about body type seems to hold true - skaters with thicker lower bodies tend to have really awesome axels, because they power off the toe pick and cover a lot of ice with them. Sasha certainly has the technique thatll take her there if she keeps training them. It would be interesting to see someone doing both.
Exciting! With people training for it, we might see it one day. Although I can't imagine 4A. Even Quads look superhuman.
But then, if there are many quad youngsters, it is irrelevant if you keep 3A into your 20s, because there always be a couple of quadsters around outjumping you
- - - Updated - - -
He actually said that now he has nothing to lose and will go for it.
Hopefully not just PR.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2018
