Tuktamysheva's scores

[medoroa]

I do, however, think that both judges and fans appreciate a skater who tackles a new challenge, moves out of her comfort zone, masters a new technical element, skates to a new type of music, etc.

On the other hand, skaters who have an "artistic signature" -- that's pretty cool, too.

I think a better example of a skater who "does the same thing" is Hanyu. I mean, leaving aside what people personally think of it (I'm not interested!!!), he's quite literally been doing the same programs more than any other skater I can recall in modern figure skating. However, the judges see this as an "artistic signature" because he has already established himself as an "artistic skater", while Tuk never did. Not all skaters are equal even if they seem to be doing the "same thing"; there is strategy involved in how a skater is packaged and talked about.

Mishin is bad at this. Like, really bad. He should not be out there admitting that he changed Tuk's SP music while keeping the choreography. Just like he should not have been out there complaining about how wrong judges are for not appreciating quads enough, or that American judges just can't appreciate art because all they drink is Coca Cola. I get that he has his own strongly-held opinions about what figure skating is or should be, which I respect, but Mishin sure is bad at reading trends and selling skaters to judges. He should have been out there hyping Tuk's modern choreography and how much she is growing with it, even if it might not have been the objective truth! That's what coaches are for!

That was a rant, but anyway, my conclusion: Tuk is not a trendy skater by the rules and standards de jeur, and her team is doing nothing to package her as a trendy skater because they place their own convictions before packaging. This is their choice. Russians often get accused of politiking, but for all the politiking they attempt, they tend to be pretty bad at it, to be honest. It'd be endearing if it wasn't frustrating.

 

[Mishaminion]

I agree with everything you except with the 'pointing fingers at her teammates'....figure skating is not a team sport with the exception of 1 serious competition (team event at Olympics) and a few fun events (WTT and Japan Open); Evgenia is not Elizaveta's teammate that's her competition for a spot on the Europeans/Worlds team.

Opponents/rivals/fellow skaters then.

 

[gotoschool]

Not only that but Zhenya is almost always dinged for her flutz now, anyway...so does not in fact get away with it at all.

The idea that Zhenya is being called for a triple lutz wrong edge at the most important events where it matters most is erroneous. At Worlds 2019, Zhenya didn't receive an e on her triple lutz, even though it is a widespread view mentioned many times on videos that it was the wrong edge, a view I agree with. Furthermore, to make the judging more absurd, Rika received lower GOE on both her proper edge triple lutz jumps in the Worlds long program. This alone was enough to easily switch Rika and Zhenya for 3rd and 4th place.

This kind of obvious bias and preference in tech calls and GOE even has an impact on this season because Rika currently has an ankle injury, so she is not jumping the triple lutz. However, if she received lenient calls as Zhenya did at her age and Worlds 2019, she would be able to get the full base value for the jump with high GOE by simply doing the wrong edge, which would relieve a lot of the pressure from her ankle. The fact that Worlds 2019 happened in Japan shows how the argument that is often made that, "It all evens out in the end" based on who is skating at home is also wrong. Instead, it depends on the power of the federation or the decisions of the ISU as a whole with the very harsh tech calls made against Japanese women at "home in Japan" in Worlds 2014 being another example for covering suspicious and or bogus calls. However, there are also many times when skaters within a federation receive a wide range of generosity and harshness in scoring often dependent on their status or where the competition is held.

Edit: In regards to the comments below about Rika's 2nd triple axel lacking rotation, Zhenya also received a generous call on her 3S / 3Loop backend which should be ur based on landings of other skaters like Liza and Anna at Skate America and Mao who almost always received urs with more rotation on their back end triple loops not to mention edge calls and negative GOE on her triple lutz. As for the other comment below that Rika lost a medal based on her mistakes, she also won the tech score in the long while performing the most difficult technical element successfully, a triple axel / triple toe, which is 2/3rd of the tech score for the competition and finished a close 3rd overall in tech while being deflated in PCS relative to the criteria.

 

[Mishaminion]

The idea that Zhenya is being called for a triple lutz wrong edge at the most important events where it matters most is erroneous. At Worlds 2019, Zhenya didn't receive an e on her triple lutz, even though it is a widespread view mentioned many times on videos that it was the wrong edge, a view I agree with. Furthermore, to make the judging more absurd, Rika received lower GOE on both her proper edge triple lutz jumps in the Worlds long program. This alone was enough to easily switch Rika and Zhenya for 3rd and 4th place, with the discussion of PCS scores being beyond the scope of this thread.

This kind of obvious bias and preference in tech calls and GOE even has an impact on this season because Rika currently has an ankle injury, so she is not jumping the triple lutz. However, if she received lenient calls as Zhenya did at her age and Worlds 2019, she would be able to get the full base value for the jump with high GOE by simply doing the wrong edge, which would relieve a lot of the pressure from her ankle. The fact that Worlds 2019 happened in Japan shows how the argument that is often made that, "It all evens out in the end" based on who is skating at home is also wrong. Instead, it depends on the power of the federation or the decisions of the ISU as a whole with the very harsh tech calls made against Japanese women at "home in Japan" in Worlds 2014 being another example for covering suspicious and or bogus calls. However, there are also many times when skaters within a federation receive a wide range of generosity and harshness in scoring often dependent on their status or where the competition is held.

You could say had Rika not bombed her SP she would have beaten Zhenya regardless of lutz calls or not. The only thing preventing Rika from getting on the podium was herself.

Still, 2019 Worlds has nothing to do with Liza's scores this season or Skate America. This should not even be a discussion about Medvedeva being chosen for the World Team or that she placed 3rd and Rika 4th.
All that is just a distraction from the actual subject and blame shifting just like TeamMishin are doing themselves

 

[Pantsu]

The idea that Zhenya is being called for a triple lutz wrong edge at the most important events where it matters most is erroneous. At Worlds 2019, Zhenya didn't receive an e on her triple lutz, even though it is a widespread view mentioned many times on videos that it was the wrong edge, a view I agree with. Furthermore, to make the judging more absurd, Rika received lower GOE on both her proper edge triple lutz jumps in the Worlds long program. This alone was enough to easily switch Rika and Zhenya for 3rd and 4th place, with the discussion of PCS scores being beyond the scope of this thread.

This kind of obvious bias and preference in tech calls and GOE even has an impact on this season because Rika currently has an ankle injury, so she is not jumping the triple lutz. However, if she received lenient calls as Zhenya did at her age and Worlds 2019, she would be able to get the full base value for the jump with high GOE by simply doing the wrong edge, which would relieve a lot of the pressure from her ankle. The fact that Worlds 2019 happened in Japan shows how the argument that is often made that, "It all evens out in the end" based on who is skating at home is also wrong. Instead, it depends on the power of the federation or the decisions of the ISU as a whole with the very harsh tech calls made against Japanese women at "home in Japan" in Worlds 2014 being another example for covering suspicious and or bogus calls. However, there are also many times when skaters within a federation receive a wide range of generosity and harshness in scoring often dependent on their status or where the competition is held.

Rika received no UR call on her 3A in the free program. Moreover, she got two -3 and one -4 GOE for that fall. Miyahara with no UR calls in the free
And i'm not sure it's that simple with fed influence. Since Japan has to support their men too

 

[moriel]

You could say had Rika not bombed her SP she would have beaten Zhenya regardless of lutz calls or not. The only thing preventing Rika from getting on the podium was herself.

Still, 2019 Worlds has nothing to do with Liza's scores this season or Skate America. This should not even be a discussion about Medvedeva being chosen for the World Team or that she placed 3rd and Rika 4th.
All that is just a distraction from the actual subject and blame shifting just like TeamMishin are doing themselves

The fact that a skater bombed does not mean that judges are not supposed judge correctly.

 

[Mishaminion]

The fact that a skater bombed does not mean that judges are not supposed judge correctly.

Read the post above yours. Others were not called or not called properly for their errors either.

 

[lzxnl]

Rika received no UR call on her 3A in the free program. Moreover, she got two -3 and one -4 GOE for that fall. Miyahara with no UR calls in the free
And i'm not sure it's that simple with fed influence. Since Japan has to support their men too

How many points is the difference between -3 and -5 GOE for a fall on a 3A worth? How about not calling one of the most obvious flutzes in the world? They're not comparable. Flutzes come with a base value reduction and a reduction in GOE, which comes out to around 3 or even 4 points. +2 GOE for a 3A is worth 1.6.

 

[Mishaminion]

Is this thread now named "Repeatedly bash Medvedeva for her flutz because TeamMishin did"

I thought it was about Liza's scores not Zhenya's or Rika's, from last year's Worlds no less.

Honestly it seems like half of there kinds of threads are just used for "airing grievances" and putting certain skaters down, even if the subject isn't about them.

Zhenya is not even in my top 5 favourites recently but the way she's talked about makes me want to stick up for her.

 

[Amei]

I am all for throwing shade and being salty at opponents, but Camp Mishin's bitterness isn't productive. Theyve been stuck in the same spot for over a quad now. It's time to get on with the times and adapt.

And was it counterproductive to call out Tarasova's favorite???

 

[NAOTMAA]

And was it counterproductive to call out Tarasova's favorite???

What was the panel vote for Liza vs Evgenia to worlds? If I recall correctly it was VERY one sided in Evgenia's favor.

That will surely tell you not only what Tarasova thinks but everyone else in the Russian fed. as well. The way they were willing to risk 3 spots for this year's worlds for their personal preference. The chances of Liza making it to worlds this year was always going to be very slim but team Mishin's behavior will pretty much make it close to nil now :confused2:

 

[yume]

Is this thread now named "Repeatedly bash Medvedeva for her flutz because TeamMishin did"

I thought it was about Liza's scores not Zhenya's or Rika's, from last year's Worlds no less.

Honestly it seems like half of there kinds of threads are just used for "airing grievances" and putting certain skaters down, even if the subject isn't about them.

Zhenya is not even in my top 5 favourites recently but the way she's talked about makes me want to stick up for her.

You're the one who actively, repeatedly condemned Mishin for his comment about Medvedeva's flutz. It's not surprising that other posters respond by talking about that flutz.

 

[Artemisa]

So I think we can ad Young you score with 3A to the scores Liza isn't get with the same jump

 

[anonymoose_au]

What was the panel vote for Liza vs Evgenia to worlds? If I recall correctly it was VERY one sided in Evgenia's favor.

That will surely tell you not only what Tarasova thinks but everyone else in the Russian fed. as well. The way they were willing to risk 3 spots for this year's worlds for their personal preference. The chances of Liza making it to worlds this year was always going to be very slim but team Mishin's behavior will pretty much make it close to nil now :confused2:

It was extremely one sided, which only made it worse. Liza was objectively better than Med last season and the idea that a biased council of judges could disregard that and trampled Liza's chances is pretty disgusting.

I mean, when they picked Plushy over Maxim K for Sochi, it was only after Maxim K performed catastrophically in a number of events. They didn't even give Liza that chance.

Not cool Coaches Council, not cool.

The only decision more unfair than that was the Swedish Olympic Fed refusing to let Alexander Majarov compete. Which I think was pretty much criminal. Like...a Fed shouldn't be able to do that to their athletes.

 

[Ophelia]

And was it counterproductive to call out Tarasova's favorite???

Yes. What is gonna do? It isn't even good politicking. Mishin should focus on upgrading his pupils skating skills. Dude is an ostrich with his head stuck in the sand.

 

[halulupu]

Yes. What is gonna do? It isn't even good politicking. Mishin should focus on upgrading his pupils skating skills. Dude is an ostrich with his head stuck in the sand.

It is actually working. Zhenya got an e at her skate Canada free skate. At big stages the maximum she normally got was !.

 

[yume]

Mishin and Liza should study Young You free skate's layout.

 

[skatenewbie]

Mishin and Liza should study Young You free skate's layout.

Yes, its BV even higher than Rika current layout (no 3Lz but 2 3A and 3F) and only less 1 point if Rika use her last season layout. If Young You add second 3A with 2T combo it would only add 1.8 point to her BV

 

[yume]

This issue can be solved if she gets back the 3lz-3T and ditch the jump sequence

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Is this thread now named "Repeatedly bash Medvedeva for her flutz because TeamMishin did"

I thought it was about Liza's scores not Zhenya's or Rika's, from last year's Worlds no less.

Honestly it seems like half of there kinds of threads are just used for "airing grievances" and putting certain skaters down, even if the subject isn't about them.

Zhenya is not even in my top 5 favourites recently but the way she's talked about makes me want to stick up for her.

I am also against bashing. However, a skater's scores don't exist in isolation and it's natural to compare athletes and their scores. If we say Liza's lutz deserved a +3, for example, that is pretty meaningless unless we look at what other skaters are getting for that element.