Two articles about Turino (ones to watch)

[Mathman]

Hughes also had several strong performances in the GP against Kwan and Slutskaya in the fall leading up to the Olympics. She had proven that she consistently belonged to the final group before the Olympics, which is likely the reason she was in fourth after the short program, in position to win or medal.

Kimmie could do the same thing! She beats Cohen, Arakawa and Rochette in the Eric Bompard Trophy, then she beats Ando, Suguri and Kostner in the NHK trophy, then she beats Slutskaya and Kwan in the GP final -- Voila!

 

[NorthernLite]

to inject Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinski as a means of comparison does a huge disservice to them. These writers forget that Tara was the reigning World Champion, and that Sarah had two years experience on the senior World scene with progressive steps upward in her results (and had beaten both Kwan and Slutskaya at Skate Canada that season).

Thank gawd some voices of reason showed up in this thread.

Actually Sarah had THREE Grand Prix seasons and three Worlds under her belt by SLC. IIRC she'd medaled at all but one of her GP events over those years. She was TWICE on the podium at the GPF, and was the reigning GPF and Worlds bronze medalist at SLC. She'd gotten silver or bronze three times at Snr. Nationals.

(BTW I find it interesting that Sarah was the Snr. World bronze medalist going into an Olympic year, and Emily is the Jr. Worlds bronze medalist. )

Also, if Nationals is CoP next year, it'll be interesting to see if Kimmie's 3A is *called* a 3 or a 2.

I like Kimmie. (I like several of the younguns.) But I too rolled-eyes a bit at the hype this past year.

 

[R.D.]

I like Kimmie. (I like several of the younguns.) But I too rolled-eyes a bit at the hype this past year.

The hype engine is just way too much. It's about to turn yet another perfectly fine skater into an annoyance (for some people). They did the same to Cohen. Will the press ever learn?

I suppose not. It's just wishful thinking on my part.

It's OK to "showcase" (I hate, and don't use, the word "hype" here because it implies bombardment) an upcoming skater or a few (preferably a few). It's a way to get to know unfamiliar faces. But to be constantly force-fed info and fluff about them (this is what I will call hype) is just too much.

Rambling a bit- OT

I can't say I'm looking forward to NBC's coverage of the Olympics. Why? Too much athlete profiling, fluff, etc. (i.e. hype) when we just want to see the events. Also way too biased. National bias in small doses is OK (IMO), and unavoidable, but this blatant nationalism that we call Olympic coverage? Some national spirit doesn't hurt, but it's nauseating in large doses. :frown2:

 

[attyfan]

When was the last time the top-scorer on the American media's "hype-meter" actually won the OGM? Kwan was the top scorer in both '02 and '82. Nancy in '94. I saw one TV special called "Fire and Ice" and it said that '92 was supposed to be a duel between Harding and Ito; Yamguchi was being groomed for '94. So, IMO, if Kimmie ever had a chance, the "hype-meisters" blew it for her.

 

[antmanb]

Every Olympic lady figure skating champion has stood on the (senior) World podium before winning Olympic gold. Kimmie has never even competed at Senior Worlds. I'd say her chance of winning the OGM is non-existent. She isn't even assured of making the Olympic team.

Kimmie has a long way to go before acquiring the polish and presence required of an OGM performance. Her skating after Nationals last year wasn't even consistent, and it seemed as if the hype was getting to her.

While i totally agree with you that I don't think Meissner will be taking the gold at the Olympics, i'm not so sure about needing to have competed at worlds. Sasha's first worlds "style" competition was SLC Olympics and after the short she was within grabbing distance...i think if she'd have just done the double toe after the opening triple flutz instead of falling on the triple toe she may well have walked away with the gold.

Ant

 

[Mathman]

The hype engine is just way too much. It's about to turn yet another perfectly fine skater into an annoyance (for some people). They did the same to Cohen. Will the press ever learn?

I don't know, Red Dog. This is show biz, after all, where every new movie is the blockbuster of all time and every new pop singer is the next Caruso. It's harmless. I figure, when it comes to skating, any coverage is good coverage.

 

[NorthernLite]

While i totally agree with you that I don't think Meissner will be taking the gold at the Olympics, i'm not so sure about needing to have competed at worlds. Sasha's first worlds "style" competition was SLC Olympics

But I'd still say competing on the GP circuit is invaluable experience, and IIRC Sasha had two seasons of that, plus other events (didn't she go to the Goodwill Games the summer before, etc., etc.).

It's partly about the skaters gaining experience at that level, partly about the judges gaining exposure to the skaters. For all the snarking about Sarah by armchair judges on the Net over the years, many international judges (wisely ) found a lot to like in her. And they took to Sasha too.

But while people in other countries know of Kimmie, perhaps saw/judged her at Junior events, she's NEVER competed at a big senior international (unless cheesefests count?). There's a big difference between the minor leagues and The Big Show.

Anyhoo, I'm out of this argument. There's a possibility KM won't even be on the Olympic team, which would make it very difficult to win in Turin. And if Emily goes, and "stays vertical," I think she'll do well. I wish I could bottle and sell the Hughes' competitive nerves.

 

[chuckm]

While i totally agree with you that I don't think Meissner will be taking the gold at the Olympics, i'm not so sure about needing to have competed at worlds. Sasha's first worlds "style" competition was SLC Olympics and after the short she was within grabbing distance...i think if she'd have just done the double toe after the opening triple flutz instead of falling on the triple toe she may well have walked away with the gold.

Ant

Sasha had been competing in the Senior GP for two seasons before the 2002 Olympics, and in fact won a "B" International--I think the Vienna Cup. She was not unknown to ISU judges sitting on Senior international panels. What the ISU judges will have most recently before them is Kimmie's 4th place at 2005 Junior Worlds. If anyone really believes Kimmie will beat Kwan, Cohen, Slutskaya, etc. at the GP this fall, I have a famous bridge for sale.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think anyone was saying that Kimmie willwin the Olys. It's been more that she is the new gal on the block with quite a bit of talent and should do well at the Olys, and given the ages of the past 3 or more Olys winners, she fulfills the age grouping. And, yes, maybe she will not make the Olys and Bebe will. Just My Wishful Thinking.

Joe

 

[slutskayafan21]

Bebe's short program at Nationals this year was wonderful I thought. Fast centered spins, with wonderful positions, solid jumps with good height and clean edges on takeoff and landings except a bit of a flutz on the lutz but not as bad as some others, decent footwork and spirals; great speed, good use of the music, great energy, and pretty good line and basic skating. I thought she was totally hosed on the marks, a 5.0 for required elements!?!? IT appears she just does not have the hype machine working for her like some of the others, poor girl. :disapp:

 

[slutskayafan21]

If anyone really believes Kimmie will beat Kwan, Cohen, Slutskaya, etc. at the GP this fall, I have a famous bridge for sale.

Will Kwan even be doing the GP this year? I dont know of the assignments yet, and unless I hear confirmation of her plans, I have my doubts.

 

[Doggygirl]

Will Kwan even be doing the GP this year? I dont know of the assignments yet, and unless I hear confirmation of her plans, I have my doubts.

Kwan has invites to SA, and COC (which if all show, looks to be a doozy!). As we've seen in previous years, I don't know that anyone will know for sure until the very last minute just who will take the ice. I hope she shows (along with all the others) for each event and let the games begin!!

DG

 

[R.D.]

Kwan also had invites to GP events last year, and many people thought she'd finally show up, but she didn't- she pulled out at the last minute. Knowing that it's Kwan, I don't expect her to be there until the day of the competition arrives and she is still on the list.

Same for the others- I see some withdrawals once the season starts. Cup of China in particular seems to be pretty heavy for the time being. Let's hope that it stays that way.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I can tell you. Last year in Skate America, Pittsburgh, I had a seat (well, many seats) around a lot Pittsburghians who were really upset when they learned that Kwan and Cohen were not skating.

I think another year like this will kill Skate America in the future. Anyway as it turned out it put Susanna on the map and gave Angela a gold medal.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

IIRC, most of the years that Kwan skipped the GP ('98/'99; '02/'03 and '03/'04), she gave plenty of notice (her return to SA at the end of '02 was due to Sarah Hughes getting hurt and having to pull out at the last minute). Does anyone know if there are any rules setting deadlines. I read somewhere that there were two deadlines -- one to notify the ISU, which is sometime this month (I think) and another, to inform the host federation, which is a week or two before the event, but I am not sure if this ever was correct.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Well unless I know Kwan has stated herself she is pretty certain to go to the events, I am going to predict she does not do any GP events, like she has done for the last several years minus one last minute fill in at Skate America. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If it's true, Kwan will not do the GPs. Will she also cut down on her practices which also could irritate her back problems? If one is that concerned then I would think they would just stop skating.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I'm pretty sure Michelle will do Skate America and Cup of China this year. She has steadfastly followed the plan that she announced three years ago. She was thinking then about taking a break, and maybe doing a Todd Eldredge in 2006, but her friends and advisors (especially her sister) talked her into at least keeping her hand in.

When she was roped into Skate America 2002 she compared herself to Michael Corleone of the Godfather -- "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in."

IIRC, her plan to take it easy almost backfired, when she qualified for the GP final with just that one event. Anyway, much to her own surprise and delight she coasted to the U.S. title and to her fifth world championship, even while cutting back on both technical content and choreography.

This year, I think she is really going to try for it. I hope she is successful. We'll see.

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

When she was roped into Skate America 2002 she compared herself to Michael Corleone of the Godfather -- "Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in."

Do any of you think that just maybe, if she didn't do SA that year, things might have been a little different? I'm talking in terms of performance, not placements. She knew all she had to do to win any events that year was to show up.

I don't think there was a winter event (I think there was some kind of special but that was it) so she wouldn't get to compete again until Nats.

IIRC, her plan to take it easy almost backfired, when she qualified for the GP final with just that one event. Anyway, much to her own surprise and delight she coasted to the U.S. title and to her fifth world championship, even while cutting back on both technical content and choreography.

I agree that the plan almost backfired, but I'm thinking long-term here. Even with the fact that she "had" to do SA in 2002, she still had a much lighter schedule from 2002-2005. Now, here's the thing: she's slipping. This is where I think her "plan" is backfiring. Not necessarily quickly, but it's happening. She went from 1st to 4th in the rankings. She's losing her consistency. She's doing much easier routines. She's gone through a period of "taking it easy" so it might be harder to get back into it, especially in a one-year period.

But it gets even worse: even after all of this, she's managed to retain her National title. I guarantee you that if it had been otherwise, she would have been forced to get her game on much sooner. Not to mention that the U.S.F.S. should have taken up the new system at least this year.

So nationally, she's still managed to stay on top. But internationally, she's slowly losing her game. It got so far that the Worlds QR rattled her and nearly took her out of contention for a medal.

I say this with the assumption that she's aiming for gold in 06. If she isn't, then what she did was perfectly fine. Add to the fact that the pressure of tying the record for most national titles this year got to her. It will be even greater next year when she attempts to, and succeeds in, breaking that record. As for the Olympics, it depends on whether she shows up this season or not. WIll she do the GP? I don't know, and don't really care that much actually- the circuit seems to be doing just fine without her.

 

[Mathman]

Well, here's what I think about that. No one can stay on top forever, no matter what short-term tactics or long-term strategy he or she employs. Michelle has done pretty well with the hand she was dealt (full of aces, to be sure).

Does she have one last oomph in her?