USA Today stories on John Coughlin

[mrrice]

Most companies have HR policies in place for coworkers who may become romantically involved. I'm not sure why similar policies couldn't be implemented for figure skating. Romantic relationships must be reported to protect against potential power differentials. And absolutely no dating among coaches and their personal skaters. If the athlete is an adult and wants to pursue a relationship, get a new coach.

I completely agree with comment. Even if both parties are adults it changes the balance and environment in the workplace. When I was dancing, our director had an affair with a fellow dancer. Suddenly, she had all the solos and the rest of cast was upset to the point that some people quit. It is not OK to mix your work life and personal life unless you can truly keep it private. I feel bad for all parties involved and I hope lessons have been learned from this tragic case.

 

[Sugar Coated]

What are the consequences for violating these obligations? In a lot of professions, certain relationships are frowned upon but the rules have no "teeth" (i.e. there is no real consequence for violating them). When I was in college, professors weren't supposed to have relations with students, but they did. Especially for tenured faculty, nothing was really done about it. In regards to figure skating, I think there is already skepticism anytime a coach dates a pupil. When these relationships break any laws, something has to be done. When they don't, I'm not so sure, and it likely depends on a variety of other factors.

You lose your license and ability to practice for having a sexual relationship with a patient. Unless you wait 2 years (the time length may be different by profession and state). The rules have “teeth.”

 

[Sugar Coated]

I completely agree with comment. Even if both parties are adults it changes the balance and environment in the workplace. When I was dancing, our director had an affair with a fellow dancer. Suddenly, she had all the solos and the rest of cast was upset to the point that some people quit. It is not OK to mix your work life and personal life unless you can truly keep it private. I feel bad for all parties involved and I hope lessons have been learned from this tragic case.

People are people and we can’t always help who we fall in love with. But that’s why there are rules for when these things happen in the workplace setting. Like you point out, it’s no longer an objective coaching relationship as soon as there is romantic intimacy (even if both are adults). The other problem is that adult students may feel the message from this type of behavior is “I need to have sex with my coach in order to get the solos or the best roles.”

 

[Mathman]

Theoretically (and I would hope in practice, although I have no knowledge of the practice), the USFSA would require a signed document from a prospective coach: ...

Isn't there is usually some sort of language like, "I will not do anything that brings discredit upon the USFSA or the sport of figure skating."

(Now, there's a statement with real legal teeth. )

 

[Edwin]

People are people and we can’t always help who we fall in love with. But that’s why there are rules for when these things happen in the workplace setting. Like you point out, it’s no longer an objective coaching relationship as soon as there is romantic intimacy (even if both are adults). The other problem is that adult students may feel the message from this type of behavior is “I need to have sex with my coach in order to get the solos or the best roles.”

Unfortunately, this is often the case with aspiring female actresses, singers, dancers, models, musicians too. The #metoo movement has spurred lots of women to come forward, accusing their male managers, directors, photographers, teachers, etc. from abusing their positions of authority.

 

[madraykin]

The USFSA could say, "Law, schmaw, just don't do it. If you do you will be decertified (or whatever) as a USFSA-approved coach.

(But Possibly the sanctioned coach would be able to bring suit on the basis that the USFSA is preventing them from earning a living at their profession?)

USA Swimming banned coach/athlete relationships a few years ago so there must be something these organisations can do legally without leaving themselves open to lawsuits.

 

[el henry]

Isn't there is usually some sort of language like, "I will not do anything that brings discredit upon the USFSA or the sport of figure skating."

(Now, there's a statement with real legal teeth. )

Catchalls are good.

And the terms of accreditation may say “ comply with all SafeSport regulations”. Which SafeSport can change when they will.

And then what happens when they do?

Law school hypotheticals

 

[Weathergal]

So is the discussion that the relationship between Meagan Duhamel and Bruno Marcotte was wrong? My understanding is that it was begun when they both were adults, and they were very discreet. I never thought negatively of it. I guess I'm trying to figure out where the line should be drawn.

 

[Sugar Coated]

Catchalls are good.

And the terms of accreditation may say “ comply with all SafeSport regulations”. Which SafeSport can change when they will.

And then what happens when they do?

Law school hypotheticals

If they sign a contract agreeing to abide by the rules set by USFSA (or safe Sport), then I’d assume that the fed would have the ability to ban them from receiving funding or participating in competitions. Make all coaches and adult athletes sign contracts. Then they could also be liable by the Fed for breech of contract? Or the fed could impose fines? Like pro athletes can get fined for things like domestic violence or unsportsmanlike conduct. Im not a lawyer but I’d assume there are actually lots of legal ways they could enforce this.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That kind of thing would almost fall under the PSA authority. Psychologist/therapists I know have a professional obligation to not date their clients within 5 years of them being clients. I'm trying to remember if the nursing boards have similar clauses.

You don't HAVE to date your students. Yet it happens so often you have to give it at least a little side eye.

In high school at least two of my classmates ended up (publically) dating teachers after school had finished yet people in the know were aware that the relationships started much earlier.

You can't compare psychologist/therapist's relationship with the client and relationships existing in other professions tho Relationship there is not allowed due to the things which are unique/specific only for that kind of 'contact' and are declaried by 'science' of that exact field. Other types of prohibitions in 'professional relationships' are more of a social type of prohibitions (the one society may declair cause the majority thinks is better not to exist) - like student/teacher's one - and i'm speaking only about adults (or people with 15/16+ years of age) here...

 

[Sugar Coated]

You can't compare psychologist/therapist's relationship with the client and relationships existing in other professions tho Relationship there is not allowed due to the things which are unique/specific only for that kind of 'contact' and are declaried by 'science' of that exact field. Other types of prohibitions in 'professional relationships' are more of a social type of prohibitions (the one society may declair cause the majority thinks is better not to exist) - like student/teacher's one - and i'm speaking only about adults (or people with 15/16+ years of age) here...

A coach/athlete relationship and a student/teacher relationships are by nature prone to exploitation. I have a friend who is still very much in therapy and trying to recover from her relationship as an 18-year-old with a college professor. She thought it was consensual at the time, but he groomed her and he had power over her grades and other things at the college. When she wanted to break-up, he threatened to bad mouth her to all other faculty to prevent her from getting certain research positions or letters of recommendation.

An athlete is supposed to obey and submit to the instructions of the coach. An athlete develops trust and obeys the instructions of the coach, this means the athlete may not recognize when they are being exploited. Also, the coach has influence and connections within the field to promote certain skaters or to politic for them. This means that a coach has the ability to make romantic demands in return for furthering a skaters career. Look at what happened in the movie business - Weinstein blacklisted actresses who didn't sleep with him.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

A coach/athlete relationship and a student/teacher relationships are by nature prone to exploitation. I have a friend who is still very much in therapy and trying to recover from her relationship as an 18-year-old with a college professor. She thought it was consensual at the time, but he groomed her and he had power over her grades and other things at the college. When she wanted to break-up, he threatened to bad mouth her to all other faculty to prevent her from getting certain research positions or letters of recommendation.

An athlete is supposed to obey and submit to the instructions of the coach. An athlete develops trust and obeys the instructions of the coach, this means the athlete may not recognize when they are being exploited. Also, the coach has influence and connections within the field to promote certain skaters or to politic for them. This means that a coach has the ability to make romantic demands in return for furthering a skaters career. Look at what happened in the movie business - Weinstein blacklisted actresses who didn't sleep with him.

Well, that kind of relationship (which is prone to exploitation) may exist even in a marriage or any other type of adult relationships, when one of the partner/person is using his/her 'power' over the other. Just because they are (adults) student-teacher's one, they are not different in their nature from any other kind of relationships and all of them can include some kind of 'abuse' (of power). The only difference in those different types of relationships may be in differently defined social standards or in the standards individuals involved in those relationships adopted... Adult athlete is not supposed to obey or submit instructions of the coach if that don't fell right for him/her personally. And i know its easier to say this than to react in some real circumstances, but people should react if they feel that way. If they think that their job/career is more important than their health, that is their choice then...

 

[Sugar Coated]

Well, that kind of relationship (which is prone to exploitation) may exist even in a marriage or any other type of adult relationships, when one of the partner/person is using his/her 'power' over the other. Just because they are (adults) student-teacher's one, they are not different in their nature from any other kind of relationships and all of them can include some kind of 'abuse' (of power). The only difference in those different types of relationships may be in differently defined social standards or in the standards individuals involved in those relationships adopted... Adult athlete is not supposed to obey or submit instructions of the coach if that don't fell right for him/her personally. And i know its easier to say this than to react in some real circumstances, but people should react if they feel that way. If they think that their job/career is more important than their health, that is their choice then...

Imagine I'm a 19-year-old athlete who's parents pay the bills for my training. My coach of several years has been making subtle advances toward me, but nothing explicit. I tell my parents I'm not comfortable with him but can't provide concrete reasons. They say I have to work with him because he is the best and they are paying the money. I start to agree to "massages" after practice that don't feel appropriate, but he's convinced me and my parents that this is normal and part of being an elite athlete. He starts to insist on helping me put on my costume or be in my changing room when I undress. These boundaries are slowly being violated, making me uncomfortable but I'm a full adult so I must have agreed to them so its okay?

One day my coach insists I must perform a sexual act on him. When I refuse, he threatens to tell everyone I'm a liar and am just making excuses about my poor performance. He threatens to tell all the other elite coaches that I'm unstable and difficult to work with. I still want to skate but I need my parents money to pay for a coach and cannot change coaches without their support. My parents believe this coach is the best, they trust him, they have dismissed my concerns before, why would they believe me now? He is also the only elite coach in the area and my finances prevent me from moving. Maybe he's even convinced me that starting a romantic relationship will mean that he can focus on me full time and take my trainings to a new level. And maybe he'll even provide his services for "free" so it will be less a financial strain to my family since my family has already made so many sacrifices for my figure skating career. I now have to decide between giving up my dream of being an Olympian or agreeing to be in a relationship with my coach.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Yeah, its tough...

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Ok Folks,

Once again, we will close the thread until new information is available.