USFS proposes lowering the age limit in pairs skating to 16

[Amei]

• The only way this should remotely fly is if they do a 'freeze' across all disciplines, not cherry-picking 1 discipline.
• Since they are the ones that submitted this freeze/lowering request - the USFS must explain why the passionate appeals of protecting 'children' doesn't apply to 16 year olds all of a sudden and secondly why they magically think this protection isn't needed for pairs skaters but is needed for singles skaters

 

[gkelly]

• Since they are the ones that submitted this freeze/lowering request - the USFS must explain why the passionate appeals of protecting 'children' doesn't apply to 16 year olds all of a sudden and secondly why they magically think this protection isn't needed for pairs skaters but is needed for singles skaters

The reasons would be similar to why the maximum age for junior pair and dance men is under 21 as of the previous July 1, whereas the maximum age for junior men in the singles discipline, as for women in all junior disciplines, is 19 as of July 1.

To make it easier to form and sustain partnerships.

It's nothing new to have different age rules for pairs vs. singles.

 

[Remilia]

The reasons would be similar to why the maximum age for junior pair and dance men is under 21 as of the previous July 1, whereas the maximum age for junior men in the singles discipline, as for women in all junior disciplines, is 19 as of July 1.

To make it easier to form and sustain partnerships.

It's nothing new to have different age rules for pairs vs. singles.

in that case, it is clear that protecting children isn't actually a priority
well, I don't watch pairs, but I find it to be anxiety-inducing when both partners are adults. It's even worse when one is a grown man and the other is a tiny, prepubescent girl. I don't know, maybe pairs with such huge age gaps shouldn't be being formed in the first place

 

[ladyjane]

in that case, it is clear that protecting children isn't actually a priority
well, I don't watch pairs, but I find it to be anxiety-inducing when both partners are adults. It's even worse when one is a grown man and the other is a tiny, prepubescent girl. I don't know, maybe pairs with such huge age gaps should be being formed in the first place

That's my point exactly. I do watch pairs, but I don't like men throwing around young girls. I am okay with men and women (yes both adults, so 18+ and the older you get, the less the gap seems to matter). I was perfectly okay with the YOG age limits (the gap couldn't be too great). Yes, we got baby pairs because of that, and boys with girls, not men with girls, and it was really enjoyable too watch.

 

[DancingCactus]

What a bunch of hypocrites. So protecting teenagers is important only if it's convenient?

Pairs with a huge age difference are yucky anyway. Especially when one of the partners is really young.

 

[Mathman]

IMHO there is something unhealthy about the whole structure of pairs skating, all stemming from the fact that there are many times more girls who are interested in figure skating than there are boys. This leads to a situation where championship-level boys and men can sell themselves off to the highest bidder, and parents have to play along or see their daughters get left behind.

 

[el henry]

I do not understand why a "freeze" is requested. Was the age limit set to be raised this year?

Does the age limit freeze apply to allowing pairs to continue in juniors (I see no issue with that) or with allowing 16 year olds to compete as seniors?

If the freeze is meant to allow 16 year olds to compete as seniors, then I disagree. I disagree with 16 year old girls, 16 year old boys, 16 year old singles, 16 year old pairs, 16 year old ice dancers, 16 year old anything competing as seniors. I'm not saying that's the rule, I'm saying that's my personal opinion.

If that means that a pair cannot compete internationally (because the man is "too old" for juniors and the woman "not old enough" for seniors) that is not a good enough reason to allow the 16 year old to compete as a senior.

Assuming of course I understand the proposal correctly.....

 

[4everchan]

Winners of YOG, Canadians Behnke and Sauve or Annikole like I call them, have a 2 years age gap. They were really enjoyable to watch.

I think the US Fed needs to start looking at right now and just consider building their pairs program over the years. There are already a bunch of pairs with problematic age gaps in seniors or in limbo in the USA... why promote this when there could be ways to just favour smaller age gaps?

Maybe I should offer my own proposal... no more than 4 years age difference in juniors

It's very simple, the US proposal aims to preserve partnerships longer... but instead of changing the rules, why not just promote smaller age gaps and create pairs that could stay together from the beginning... if that's really their reasoning... I mean... pairs just split anyway so what's the point really ?

 

[gold12345]

I can confirm through correspondence with USFS that they have put forth a proposal to "freeze" the age at 16 for women in junior pairs only.

So, USFS is not asking to "lower" the age; rather to "freeze" it at 16 to prevent pairs from splitting up.

No, the Senior age should remain 17 at minimum, which helps prevent 21 year old men from pairing with 14 year olds in the first place.

Such a poor proposal, I barely understand what the US is asking for. You can skate Senior pairs at 16 if you did Junior pairs, but if you never did Junior pairs, you follow the real age rules and wait until 17? So random and clearly not for the well-being and safety of children at all, just trying to encourage more Junior pairs with huge age gaps like 14 and 21.

Large age gap pairs are unlikely to last no matter how many times USFS tries to get the age rules changed-- the 2 partners are at different places in life, the girl matures into an adult, etc, and you cannot "prevent" them from splitting up. And the US should be DISCOURAGING adult men from skating with young girls, but instead they're looking for another way to encourage it. There was even a pair in the lower levels of US Nationals this year that had an age gap as huge as 13 and 21, a pointless pairing.

The US has more pairs than any country in the world except Russia, and it is NOT necessary to pair adults with young girls, nor is it characteristic of top pairs in the world. If you have a few less pairs (that were likely to split anyway), so be it, it's better that children are protected.

The biggest problem with US pairs is that pairs is an adult discipline, and the US doesn't give their best adult pair skaters enough money where they want to continue pair skating as their job. This is the most pressing concern that cannot be "fixed" by rushing 12-15 year olds into the discipline to be paired with much older men in partnerships that are very unlikely to last. They need to ADJUST to the 17+ age rule, instead of continuing to hope for ways to avoid it.

 

[lariko]

I can't find any proposals filed for 2024 ISU Congress or anything about it at all tbh. Anybody has a link to it?

 

[rain]

I also have worries about the age gap at the younger levels, not when both partners are adults and can handle it even when it's substantial. Young men (20 or 21) combined with girls of 13-14 seems a misfit to me.

Absolutely this is the issue.

I don't think anybody cares or has an issue with, say, Deanna Stellato-Dudeck skating with Maxime Deschamps. They are clearly both adults who can make their own choices.

It's the young girls skating with grown men that's so off-putting. There's already a power imbalance in pairs a lot of the time by virtue of the fact that there are so many more women looking for partners than there are men, so men basically have their pick, while girls are seen as replaceable. Now imagine one is also a child.

And then of course there's the fact that the age is being raised in the first place so that we no longer have prepubescent children competing against grown women, and retiring immediately upon puberty (causing all sorts of incredibly unhealthy attempts to delay the inevitable). It's a movement that has my full support, as I hope it will quell some of the more abusive aspects of the sport.

 

[Mathman]

I barely understand what the US is asking for.

Me, too.

 

[saine]

After the commentary for YOG about junior skaters developing physically, I'm even more in favour of keeping the age limit at 17. They don't need to be in the spotlight of being a senior. Let them stay junior without the pressure of competing where there's more at stake while they're still developing.

I've seen comments on Twitter complaining about how X could be winning all the things if they were able to compete as a senior or how Y's junior record still stands. They're kids, they don't need to win all the things before they're an adult or be setting records.

If USFS thinks that the age limit needs to be kept at 16 for pairs, that's a sign that the thinking around pairs needs to change. It won't if exceptions are made to let women compete senior earlier or keep men junior longer.

 

[Janice4th]

My two cents. Pairs is the discipline with the fewest competitors. This change would help increase the number. And FYI - the 14 YO and 21 YO Junior pairs champions from last year are like brother and sister to each other.

 

[saine]

My two cents. Pairs is the discipline with the fewest competitors. This change would help increase the number. And FYI - the 14 YO and 21 YO Junior pairs champions from last year are like brother and sister to each other.

@Jumping_Bean already did tracking for the pairs this season in this thread. The number of competitors is fine at the moment with the age eligibility issues. Teams will split and form as they adjust.

It's nice that a 14 year old and 21 year old can be like brother and sister. It doesn't mean that other pairs teams where they would be in significantly different stages of life would have the same relationship, or would be appropriate.

 

[gsk8]

I can't find any proposals filed for 2024 ISU Congress or anything about it at all tbh. Anybody has a link to it?

The agenda (with proposals) is usually released in April-May time frame.

I can only confirm from correspondence with USFS that they submitted a proposal to "freeze" the age at 16 for pairs.

 

[Mathman]

To me, this proposal does not reflect well on the USFSA. They voted for raising the age limit for seniors to 17, and presumably had adequate reasons for their vote. Now all of a sudden, whoops, maybe this will make it harder for us to put together championbship pairs teams.

Come on, guys, get your act together.

 

[Amei]

To me, this proposal does not reflect well on the USFSA. They voted for raising the age limit for seniors to 17, and presumably had adequate reasons for their vote. Now all of a sudden, whoops, maybe this will make it harder for us to put together championbship pairs teams.

Come on, guys, get your act together.

I think more than a few people can theorize what's likely the real reason why they wanted it 17, unfortunately they didn't look past their nose and think of other ramifications.

The smartest approach to the age-increase would have been to initiate that it needed to be 16, so that everyone on the senior circuit is playing by the same rules and then reevaluate if the age minimum should be increased further after a few seasons. And as I've said in earlier comments, the 'sales pitch' about protecting the 'children' that was used to raise it post-Beijing makes it very hard IMO to walk it back.

 

[saine]

I think more than a few people can theorize what's likely the real reason why they wanted it 17, unfortunately they didn't look past their nose and think of other ramifications.

The smartest approach to the age-increase would have been to initiate that it needed to be 16, so that everyone on the senior circuit is playing by the same rules and then reevaluate if the age minimum should be increased further after a few seasons. And as I've said in earlier comments, the 'sales pitch' about protecting the 'children' that was used to raise it post-Beijing makes it very hard IMO to walk it back.

Beijing may have made it easier for the proposal to pass, but it was added to be discussed at the ISU Congress in Phuket after the death of Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya in 2020 (source.) There were also proposals put forward by the Dutch federation to raise it to 17 in 2018 (source.)

I don't like characterizing this as a sales pitch for protecting children, that makes it sound like it was slapped together as a band-aid solution after Beijing to me. It was being proposed prior to Beijing, and by a federation who I doubt would have benefited from the age increase back in 2018. If other federations regret their choice to vote for the increase now, you're right that it's too late to walk back now. It won't solve all the issues, but it's a start that can be built on.

 

[Skating91]

The age needs to be 18 minimum for seniors. 17 is inadequate.

I think having young children competing has become so normalised that the involvement of young children in adult events, or wild age discrepancies in pairs skating is not alarming to anyone. Instead adults work to manipulate the system to their federation's advantage.

After the Channel 1 Cup in Russia on the weekend, there was an after party where alcohol was involved. There were 12 year old and 15 year old skaters there without guardians surrounded by adults presumably drunk by their antics.

Seriously, this is out of hand. No other sport would this be tolerated. They should be home getting ready for school the next day.

I think the world over this sport has completely lost all perspective.

If they cannot find a 17 year old to match with a 17 year old, or 18 year old to match with an 18 year old, maybe the discipline needs to be abandoned.