Wagner "furious" on scores

[TCAngel18]

the person also had things said about Gracie Gold. I thought the ban was right given the person was also aggressive towards other posters and has been a really toxic presence on this forum.

Raises hand.

 

[eriecold]

She also got a level 3 on one spin and her step sequence, and < her lutz, so let’s not pretend like she skated lights out.

Making faces only gets you so far at this point, and I’m saying this as an Ashley fan.

She wasn't at 2016 levels, or even last years'. But Chen's LP was an UR paradise, yet she had the highest PCS of the night.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

It was obvious that this would happen after Ashley's SP PCS. I think she deserved to win over Karen for sure. None of the PCS makes sense to me and even though I don't think the Fed had a grand scheme against Ashley it's still clear to me that that they have decided on rewarding PCS in a way that will give the results they think is the best.

I wonder what Ashley will do next? She is absolutely right at being outspoken, she is not a child or does not owe obedience to anyone. Sometimes people really whine when they do not have the right to, but I think this time she is right in questioning why her PCS are lower than her international competitions.

I honestly don't think she wants to go to the Olympics like this. All nation would hate her based on what I see here.

If I were her I might have announced my retirement already lol. She deserves to leave happily and with a smile on her face, I thought the Olympics was the place for it. If not why not drop the mic and end it all like a diva

 

[silverfoxes]

Wow, she really has no class at all. I've seen far greater injustices in scoring lately and the "wuzrobbed" skaters all were far more graceful about it, not attacking judges publicly and acting entitled. She was supposed to be held up after her mediocre skating at SC and dropping out of SA? I understand why she had to do the latter, but this is a skater who never goes to senior Bs, 4CC, etc. Acting like she's above those "little" competitions (which are not beneath Yuzuru, Evgenia, Caro, Patrick, etc.) and thinking she can just show up a couple times a season and coast on reputation. There is no "body of work" argument to be made here and nothing she did in previous seasons should matter now. It doesn't work like that.

 

[mrrice]

I wonder how Shae-Lynn feels about the pcs of A professionally designed program being scored less than the pcs of a self choreographed program. It does not say much for getting a pro to do your program design. I would be very discouraged if I was Shae-Lynn.

I tell you what...It's very difficult for a judge to give a great critique of a program they have never seen. When I was judging dance, the difference between my first viewing of a program was often vastly different from the last. Programs develop over a season and I think things might have been different if Ashley had skated this program from day 1.

The skaters that "Made" the team are the one's who should go. None of the ladies have a "Body Of Work" this season as none of them made the GPF. Ashley won her only medal with MR and that's a big problem for the committee to deal with. I hope Ashley will choose to attend 4CC where I hope she can skate well and possibly win. I understand that she's upset but.....I wouldn't put her over the skaters who placed above her. Karen Chen had something to prove tonight and she delivered under pressure.

 

[Globetrotter]

You are out here convinced that Ashley has zero skills and could be beating by any five year old at a public rink. Her record says differently of course, but you just don't want to hear it. I have no idea what you see when you watch Ashley skate but it's certainly not what most others see and it certainly isn't indicative of any reality past or present

Actually the poster Ask was for once quite reasonable here. Ashley is a good performer and entertainer but that is only one PCS component. I rewatched her LP. The CO and IN were not her usual standard, not surprising as she was doing this programme new and fresh - not quite yet into it. Her SS and TR were always mediocre and in the past, she was generously rewarded for that - I mean can you imagine her scoring higher than Wakaba or Mai Mihara in SS in Worlds 2016 with her relatively weak bladework? Unfortunately, judges did only score her for what was put out on the ice and the CO and IN were low as expected - yes, lower than what she expected but hey she was not interpreting at her usual standard too due to the choreo being less established. All I can say is it was a wrong strategy in not starting out with Lalaland earlier in the season.

 

[Procrastinator]

I tell you what...It's very difficult for a judge to give a great critique of a program they have never seen. When I was judging dance, the difference between my first viewing of a program was often vastly different from the last. Programs develop over a season and I think things might have been different if Ashley had skated this program from day 1.

The skaters that "Made" the team are the one's who should go. None of the ladies have a "Body Of Work" this season as none of them made the GPF. Ashley won her only medal with MR and that's a big problem for the committee to deal with. I hope Ashley will choose to attend 4CC where I hope she can skate well and possibly win. I understand that she's upset but.....I wouldn't put her over the skaters who placed above her. Karen Chen had something to prove tonight and she delivered under pressure.

But Karen delivering still means a botched jumping pass and three URs. I don't think this decision is as clear-cut as it seems.

Is there a timeline for when the team is expected to be named?

 

[silverfoxes]

I wonder how Shae-Lynn feels about the pcs of A professionally designed program being scored less than the pcs of a self choreographed program. It does not say much for getting a pro to do your program design. I would be very discouraged if I was Shae-Lynn.

LOL. The problem was not Shae-Lynn's choreo, but the skater phoning it in with her usual overwrought facial expressions. I'd be more annoyed that Ashley dumped the program in the first place and only brought it back as a hail mary this late in the season. But Shae-Lynn's reputation is hardly going to suffer because Ashley didn't deliver.

 

[Warwick360]

I love Wagner but if the transcript is how it goes, then I don't see how the turn of events is anyone's fault but hers. All she needed was two clean program (just like Wakkaba). No point complaining now. Having said that, I do think the PCS should have been a bit higher. It's a lovely program and I don't see this program as any way worse than programs she's had in the past. I wish she had debuted this program earlier in the season than just now.

 

[mrrice]

But Karen delivering still means a botched jumping pass and three URs. I don't think this decision is as clear-cut as it seems.

Is there a timeline for when the team is expected to be named?

I think the team will be named following 4CC. Maybe if Ashley skates a blinder and wins......They could give the 3rd spot to her. However, I would be upset if they chose to go with Ashley over Karen. If I were on the committee, I would choose Karen to go before Ashley due to her 4th place finish at Worlds. The fact that Karen is defending champion is obviously another factor.

 

[binky]

theres no debate that tennell was rightly placed. but ashley, had she prepared a stronger program for the long with a better dress and bought into every second of it which would have been possible with that program -- she would be competitive for third at olympics. mirai doesnt really seem to have a triple axel its a whole lot easier to land a jump on two feet! and her other positions and jumps never come together as a program but one movement to get through after another in a sort of plodding fashion. ashley was ripped in the short. theres not much that can be said about chen. she wont stand up to better similar skaters and received favorable scoring in the short. ashley should have brought more last night because she has it.

 

[Globetrotter]

I love Wagner but if the transcript is how it goes, then I don't see how the turn of events is anyone's fault but hers. All she needed was two clean program (just like Wakkaba). No point complaining now. Having said that, I do think the PCS should have been a bit higher. It's a lovely program and I don't see this program as any way worse than programs she's had in the past. I wish she had debuted this program earlier in the season than just now.

I don’t quite agree. To be fair, she deserved higher, close to 9 on PE but her SS was overscored and should really not even be 8 considering that she didn’t show good blade work and was noticeably weaker in changing speeds and direction in this programme. Her usual interpretation and musicality also were uncharacteristically off, possibly due to the programme not being as ingrained as she normally did. Overall, I think the PCS is fine and was a result of bad strategic programme planning on her team’s part. That said, Bradie Tennell and Mirai Nagasu were rewarded a tad too much PCS wise especially the former. Bradie should be max only about 63, Mirai about 65. Karen Chen never lost the plot despite the tech errors but she really should only be about 68 mainly based on her slightly better SS than the rest.

 

[Warwick360]

Aiyiyi, Ashley.... girl I love you but no. You missed the Olympic team by 2.5 points- THAT'S YOUR POPPED JUMP!

Was thinking she might as well have gone for triple-double-double with the lack of speed. But I'm not a tech and I wouldn't know if she could have saved it. I do wonder if she could have just simplified the program a little bit (considering how bad the comp level at US has been the whole season), the way it was discussed on other boards of going for 2a-3T as opposed to 3-3....but then I'm not sure what the state of her trying the former combo is.

 

[Warwick360]

I don’t quite agree. To be fair, she deserved higher, close to 9 on PE but her SS was overscored and should really not even be 8 considering that she didn’t show good blade work and was noticeably weaker in changing speeds and direction in this programme. Her usual interpretation and musicality also were uncharacteristically off, possibly due to the programme not being as ingrained as she normally did. Overall, I think the PCS is fine and was a result of bad strategic programme planning on her team’s part. That said, Bradie Tennell and Mirai Nagasu were rewarded a tad too much PCS wise especially the former. Bradie should be max only about 63, Mirai about 65. Karen Chen never lost the plot despite the tech errors but she really should only be about 68 mainly based on her slightly better SS than the rest.

But her skating to me comes across as such a bracket ticking exercise. People accuse Russians of trying to squeeze every points through the rule book, but it's Karen that sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe it's just taste or perception, but honestly, her PCS is a bit over the top for me.

 

[Globetrotter]

But her skating to me comes across as such a bracket ticking exercise. People accuse Russians of trying to squeeze every points through the rule book, but it's Karen that sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe it's just taste or perception, but honestly, her PCS is a bit over the top for me.

Actually I am not so OTT with Karen. She has better SS than the other ladies and she wasn’t even the highest PCS scorer. Do you really think a Bradie was a 9 on PE? And both Bradie and Ashley scoring better than Karen on SS when they both are fairly weak on their edges and glide?

 

[Eclair]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong but didn't Ashley change the LaLaLand program to Moulin Rouge after ChampsCamp? The same day that Vincent changed his program into Moulin Rouge? The same day Karen changed her program, too?

If so, then whoever at a champsCamp is responsible for advertising Ashley wrongly in ditching the LaLaLand. It's not like she can ignore it, when officials at ChampsCamp tell her to return to MoulinRouge, as this is the whole purpose of ChampsCamp.

I'm so sorry for Ashley and I had hoped she would have had her Olympic moment once again. I think if judges were fairer with her PCS (giving her her usual PCS for the performance quality and not showering Karen with undeserved UR calls), she would have taken that 4th place a lot more graciously. But this way it's just sad to see how the judges threw both of their skaters under the bus.

 

[labgoat]

LOL. The problem was not Shae-Lynn's choreo, but the skater phoning it in with her usual overwrought facial expressions. I'd be more annoyed that Ashley dumped the program in the first place and only brought it back as a hail mary this late in the season. But Shae-Lynn's reputation is hardly going to suffer because Ashley didn't deliver.

I think people are not giving enough credit to the choreo of this program. Shae choreographed more than facial expressions for Ashley. There is more choreo and edgework there. The critique on Ashley is that she just makes faces and shimmies. It is popular because she is controversial and people either like her or they don't. I don't like to see Shae's work on LaLa to be maligned by association. By many accounts, people enjoyed the program and felt the pcs was too low. Like her or not, but there is a case to be made on pcs for Ashley, however she sealed her own fate technically.
I wish Ashley would have kept her mouth shut as I do not think it was wise to speak when your fate is on the line.

 

[Barb]

I like Ashley, but her MR and La la land this season were totally underwhelming, boring, except her pink dress, please donate it to Bradie. And I don´t understand why her PCS should be higher.

She is like Olivia Smart, they got sent once over other deserved team/skater and again they want a repeat, sorry no, you got the gift once, and at olympics no less, Mirai was dumped last olympics with a stellar performance not with a subpar participation like Ashley´s at this Nationals, and she came back stronger than ever to show no doubts, to not let nobody doubt it about she deserved the spot, Ashley should to do the same.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Wagner's program definitely had more transitions and edgework than some are trying to say, and I would not call her interpretation overwrought either.

Mirai was dumped last olympics with a stellar performance not with a subpar participation like Ashley´s at this Nationals.

Mirai's 2014 Nationals showing was hardly stellar, she had easier jumps, hardly any transitions, basic choreography, also not great spins aside from the Layback. She was "dumped" because her results had not been good, she wasn't competitive enough. Ashley at Olympics and Worlds went on to skate better than Mirai had at Nationals or at any point within 3 years of then.

 

[Mista Ekko]

It very much felt like there was an active decision to "leave Ashley on her own" judging wise

She still could've grabbed it with a better performance,
And people could argue wether she deserves support or not

But honestly, Do you see any of the top three getting scores like those internationally?