What freeskate level is the biellmann spin?

[Arwen17]

What would you say is roughly the Freestyle level of moves like the Biellmann spin or the easier haircutter spin?

ISI outlines their Freestyle levels here: http://www.skateisi.com/site/sub.cfm?content=testing_requirements and it does a good job of listing all the jumps, but not the spins.

I wish there was some "mega-guide" to the level of difficulty for every single move in figure skating.


Also, I think its probably possible for me to land single axel and a few double jumps at my age in a few years. But what about spins? How far can people go in spin levels? Is Biellmann considered the toughest spin because of flexibility?
Can anyone give me a list of all spins in-order-of-difficulty? What level are they?

I'm guessing its something like this:
two-foot-spin
one-foot-spin
scratch-spin
back-scratch-spin
sit-spin
camel-spin
layback spin
back-sit-spin
back-camel-spin
cannonball, donut?
flying camel?
haircutter spin?
biellmann spin?


I skated and took private lessons for one year at 14 years old and worked my way up to Freestyle lvl 4 in just one year. (aka sit spins, very poor camel spins, loop jump, flip jump, etc.)
I made sure not to lose any of my skills these past 12 years, so I'm starting exactly where I left off in lvl 4. I started taking private lessons two weeks ago and I'm 26 years old now, but still lean, thanks to my HCLF vegan diet. I'm working on building up some muscle in the gym to get my sit spins lower etc.
So that's why I'm hoping in a few years, axel and some double jumps may be possible. But I've always liked spins more than jumps (because I get to keep at least one foot on the ground haha). What's the highest I'm likely to get in spins? I don't even have the flexibility to do a serious haircutter position on dry land (I'm very tall at 5'9), but maybe if I train hard for flexibility off ice...

 

[gkelly]

Biellmann spin is less about skating ability than spinning ability and flexibility. I've seen a good one from a no-test or pre-preliminary skater (this is very rare), and there are plenty of senior ladies who can't do it at all. With regard to ISI levels, it could be possible for some flexible little girls with good balance for spinning at freestyle 4 or 5, but that would be someone who is better at spinning and stretching than at skating and jumping.

The later you start working on your flexibility, the less likely you are to ever achieve that position. If you're already well into your 20s and not very flexible, chances are you'll never have a decent Biellmann spin.

But never say never. Build up your flexibility gradually off ice, work on your spinning ability so you can center and maintain revolutions in various upright spin variations, and you might someday be able to spin with your foot higher than your head, even if it isn't as pretty as the girls who start stretching at age 5.

There are a lot of other advanced spin variations that don't rely on flexibility, so some of those might be easier for you to achieve. Meanwhile, just keep working on your basic spinning skills on ice.

 

[loopy]

If you want a Biellmann, - the easiest way is to take Aerial silks and hoops. It uses so much upper body strength and flexibility. My daughter got a beautiful one on land from it. She quit before she needed it in skating and blah it's not pretty anymore. Anyway, it's not really a level, it's a feature. You can do it at any level that has a one foot spin.

 

[jf12]

It's very individual based on body type what advanced variations a skater will be good at, like the Biellmann. For example, as an adult skater, I'm working on my death drop, but as a person with average flexibility I won't ever be likely to do a biellmann - either with physical flexibility limitation or the time to sacrifice from working on other elements to spend on it. For another skater they might find the biellmann easier to get than the death drop. So, it's hard to really rank the difficulty. That's why under the IJS system there are a lot of different ways to get levels on spins.

 

[Arwen17]

My coach told me today that no one currently at our rink can do a donut spin. She used to be able to do one when she was younger. But no one currently can do one.

I've seen a few young girls doing haircutter or Biellmann spins, so apparently donut spin is harder and requires more flexibility?

 

[jf12]

One is not really harder than the other - they require a different kind of flexibility, and what the skater decides to train/work on. If you look at any IJS guide, there are many ways to get levels on spins, including difficult variations, like the Biellmann or the donut, but also changes of edge, gaining speed in the spin, holding one position for 8 or more revs, spinning in both directions. There are certainly skaters, especially on the mens side, who do get their level 4's on spins without any particularly good flexibility.

In reference to beginning skaters, each of the difficult variations builds off of one of the basic spin positions. If you're looking for an order in which to study things, I'd say, first, master all of the basic spin positions - upright, sit, camel, layback. Then after you've mastered the position, which loosely I think about being able to hold the final position for 8 revs with constant speed, you can start to think about doing a difficult variation on each of them. I'm sure at your rink it is possible that the kids you're referring to have great laybacks and thus can work on the advanced variations, but their camel is not so good. It is possible that other people at other rinks have the opposite situation going on.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

It's mostly all about your one foot spinning capabilities teamed with major flexibility and speed.
It's only a Biellmann if your foot is above your head with one or two hands holding it.

My favorite to do is the Pearl spin position. It along with the classic Biellmann sometimes require you to have hyper-extension.

Definitely do a lot of off ice stretches to train the flexibility so it's easier to do once attempting on ice. Good luck!