Worlds: Men's FS

[GGFan]

So off topic it's not funny, but that always irritated me in Plushy's case when Dick would start in on the arm movements...Like, I respect you, Dick, but it got beyond a joke sometimes. Incidentally having watched Dick's skating on YouTube...well, let's say his arms were like two wooden planks, so I dunno he doesn't sound like the go-to-guy for judgement on that. Especially when one considers if you look at photos of Plushy mid-arm "wave" he's always perfectly posed right down to his fingertips, work of art if you ask me.

Don't diss what you didn't have, Dick

On topic...I was very impressed by Nathan! After Yuzu's incredible skate I wasn't sure he could do it, but he rose to the pressure and put on an amazing performance! He's grown a lot since the Olympics and after such a disappointment there I was really happy for him!

Although...Yuzu still should have got way more points for that 4T-3A, that was insane!

Dick was so shady! Growing up with those kind of opinionated people it didn't bother me. I didn't know anything different. It just helped me develop my own opinions.

I will give him this: whenever he was asked about modern skating he would go on and on about how much better it was than in his day. He very much realized that skating skills were very different in his day. After all Dick was the jumping bean of his day.

The most thrilled I ever heard him be was when he was watching John Curry or Janet Lynn. Otherwise we were just along for the ride. On any given day your favorite could be in the line of fire. Depending on his mood Michelle would get called out on her layback.

 

[TontoK]

So looking into individual judges further, the one skater that had a lot of variance on was Vincent Zhou. His PCS scores ranged from 82 to 91, that's a 7 point difference.

The Israel judge put him 11th among all the men in the free skate. Speaking of the Croatian judge, Vincent got the highest PCS from that judge (91.00) and that was 3rd among all the skaters. The Turkish judge also put him in 3rd with a PCS score of 90.

Another skater who had a lot of variance was Kevin Aymoz of France. HIs PCS ranged from 79 to 87, an 8 point difference. The Turkish judge had him as high as 6th in PCS among all skaters while the Croatian judge, who scored him in 79, put him in 14th among the men.

So again "THE JUDGES" is a bit of a misnomer considering that there is such a wide gap in scores within a single skater. Yes, the "high-low" throw out is expected to balance it out, but the problem is when you have, as you saw with both Kevin and Vincent, multiple judges scoring on the low and high end, which can influence the final PCS score.

Vincent's differences in score is 9, not 7, if my math is correct.

That Croatian judge is my new favorite, since he/she seems to acknowledge the kind of skating I enjoy.

So, here are my musical credentials, since it seems like that's a thing now.

I can operate a standard record player, once had an admirable cassette tape collection, and I have recently learned to download music to my phone. Those are the highlights.

I bolster my artistic pedigree by affirming that I can perform most basic dances one would see at a wedding reception. I'm told my waltz is admirable. And, during a less stable time in my live, I dated a dancer - although I'm intentionally going to be a little murky on the specifics.

But I know what I like. I like strong, manly skating. Good edging and powerful gliding. Turns and movements that match the music, things that I could imagine myself doing if I had an ounce of the talent these guys have. I like speed. I like something that grabs my attention and won't let go. I like when there is this unspoken bond between the skater and audience (me) that makes me want to see him succeed. I like seeing programs to music I haven't seen in 50 other programs.

I think judging panels must be comprised, at least partly, by Regular Joes like me - at least at heart. Because if I like it, chances are the judges do, too. If I find it boring, they don't give it high marks. If I get up to make a sandwich in the middle of a program, they bury the guy.

But I'm not surprised that judges' marks vary. They're individuals, too, and I imagine there are things they like, and things they don't. Just like all of us.

 

[Interspectator]

If neither side can be convinced, even when it's explained in detail, thoroughly, many times, and once again. ---And once again.
Should we agree to disagree? Cover new ground? It's been made clear that those who think Nathan's artistry is superior will continue to think so. Those who think Yuzu is the superior artist in figure skating will not change their minds, (that's me).
What about Kevin Aymoz?
We could also talk about Matteo Rizzo
Or Kolyada?

Who gained the most momentum from their results this Worlds? (for me, Jason Brown and Matteo Rizzo)

Who had the greatest resurgence? (IMO Kolyada)

Who needs a total makeover and try something different? (Hmm, don't know)

 

[Mathman]

So off topic it's not funny, but that always irritated me in Plushy's case when Dick would start in on the arm movements...

The best arm comment I ever heard -- in fact, the best comment on the artsiness of artistic artistry in figure skating in general -- went like this. There was a short clip of Michelle Kwan giving a skating lesson to a young aspirant. So Michelle skated around a bit and then said

"See? It looks like I am really doing something, right? But actually I am just resting between jumps while moving my arms up and down."

 

[TontoK]

If neither side can be convinced, even when it's explained in detail, thoroughly, many times, and once again. ---And once again.
Should we agree to disagree? Cover new ground? It's been made clear that those who think Nathan's artistry is superior will continue to think so. Those who think Yuzu is the superior artist in figure skating will not change their minds, (that's me).
What about Kevin Aymoz?
We could also talk about Matteo Rizzo
Or Kolyada?

I'm undecided on Kevin.

I'm a new admirer of Matteo. That Queen program was fun - the choreo sequence at the end was fantastic. He's young; he'll get better.

Kolyada keeps my nerves on edge. I can't relax when he skates, although I generally like the style very much.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The best arm comment I ever heard -- in fact, the best comment on the artsiness of artistic artistry in figure skating in general -- went like this. There was a short clip of Michelle Kwan giving a skating lesson to a young aspirant. So Michelle skated around a bit and then said

"See? It looks like I am really doing something, right? But actually I am just resting between jumps while moving my arms up and down."

Maybe so! But still I love Plushy's armography, I could watch him skate around "waving" his arms all day

I often despair of the lack of armography in skating today actually! So I'm terribly biased.

 

[Interspectator]

In his SP Matteo showed some pristine quality on each element. They were all presented with simplicity but clean as a whistle (I didn't re-watch, so I may have missed something). It stood out to me that there was nothing extraneous in his program. It would have been ruined if there was any mistake, however, but there wasn't.

 

[Mrs. P]

If neither side can be convinced, even when it's explained in detail, thoroughly, many times, and once again. ---And once again.
Should we agree to disagree? Cover new ground? It's been made clear that those who think Nathan's artistry is superior will continue to think so. Those who think Yuzu is the superior artist in figure skating will not change their minds, (that's me).
What about Kevin Aymoz?
We could also talk about Matteo Rizzo
Or Kolyada?

Who gained the most momentum from their results this Worlds? (for me, Jason Brown and Matteo Rizzo)

Who had the greatest resurgence? (IMO Kolyada)

Who needs a total makeover and try something different? (Hmm, don't know)

I love Kevin Aymoz! One thing I've been impressed with him this season is that he really has worked on not going ALL in on his passionate performance to where he has no energy to do the technical elements. I remember when he was a junior and he would just pop all these jumps because he literally was so focused on performing that he didn't think about the actual elements. GGFan, regarding your question, whether the score variance is reflective of taste, I think that is very likely. I think Kevin's style is a bit abstract and probably not to everyone's taste. I think for next season keep working on the quad toe and work on the spins, that is probably the one area that is a glaring weakness.

I am delighted for Misha. I think he really needed to show that he can still skate well. As I said elsewhere I think he might have been underscored a bit in PCS relative to the other men. I hope hat will help his confidence, though I'm concerned about the Russian fed pressure machine --it seems to be kind of a survival of the fittest and we've seen a lot of really talented Russian men go by the wayside as a result. Even to this day it still feels like the Russian men are measured up to Plushenko, Kulik and Yagudin rather than judged on their on merits.

I agree both Matteo and Jason both had some forward momentum here though both faulted in the FS (Jason more so, obviously). I think both showed of playing up to +5/-5. And Matteo's quad toe is becoming more and more consistent which is great to see.

Regarding the makeover question--I'd say Keegan, maybe? I love his energetic performance but I feel like he could benefit from a program that maybe forces him to slow down a bit, take his time and maybe harness that speed throughout instead of this 0-100 we kinda see from him sometimes.
(And there's a whole thread discussing that -- I might chime in on that one!)

Honestly the men's field has so much depth we could see a completely different top 6 this time next year. It' kind of exciting (but also stressful)

 

[shine]

If neither side can be convinced, even when it's explained in detail, thoroughly, many times, and once again. Should we agree to disagree? Cover new ground? It's been made clear that those who think Nathan's artistry is superior will continue to think so. Those who think Yuzu is the superior artist in figure skating will not change their minds, (that's me).

Except one side seems to love to shove it in the other side's face and state their belief as if it were a universally accepted consensus. This is obviously not directed at you but it is a phenomenon I've been seeing for years, and the only reason I even respond in this thread.

 

[moonvine]

Someone I respect in figure skating more than most is Robin Cousins. He was a true dancer on the ice and despite so many injuries had some ridiculous height on his jumps. He called Worlds for the BBC.

On Nathan: "So controlled. And what I really like since last season there’s a maturity to his performance that takes it to a different level now. It was always about jumps jumps and it was somewhat clinical. But I thought that was absolutely, brilliantly engaging. Choreographically lovely. In his zone with the music."

Kurt was gushing on the CBC as was Alexei Yagudin with Tatiana Tarasova. We've heard from Boitano, Orser and others as well. Everyone acknowledges the growth in his maturity and presentation. No one has said this is akin to Tim Goebel winning worlds. Some may not like it, but the past champions are very much impressed with Nathan.

How would a person in the US get that commentary?

 

[moonvine]

The most thrilled I ever heard him be was when he was watching John Curry or Janet Lynn. Otherwise we were just along for the ride. On any given day your favorite could be in the line of fire. Depending on his mood Michelle would get called out on her layback.

I think the most thrilled I ever heard him might have been calling Rudy Galindo's Nationals win in what...1996?

 

[GGFan]

I think the most thrilled I ever heard him might have been calling Rudy Galindo's Nationals win in what...1996?

True. He was ecstatic about that performance.

How would a person in the US get that commentary?

https://aboutnathanpic.blogspot.com/2019/03/wc-2019-vid.html has several videos

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

How would a person in the US get that commentary?

Youtube. Or live close enough in the US to the Canadian border and get Canadian TV stations.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

All,

As far as we know, Yuzuru Hanyu did not skate his Chopin Ballade SP at this year's Worlds. There's plenty about this year's Worlds Men's FS to talk about, so we have relocated posts regarding that short program (and Hanyu's musicality) to a new thread feel free to continue the discussion there:
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...ts-on-Yuzuru-Hanyu-s-musicality-in-Ballade-SP

Please remember the guidelines and that we do not allow for people calling out and bickering at each other. Stick to the talking points and don't attack others personally.

 

[eaglehelang]

https://twitter.com/Rora1608/status/1109565645509799936?s=19
Max Ambesi's take on 2019 WC, translated by this twitter user.

I believe this is the same Max Ambesi who said Boyang Jin's textbook 4Lutz was underscored

 

[DSQ]

How would a person in the US get that commentary?

VPN. It’s still on BBC iPlayer. Unfortunately it’s not up on YouTube.

 

[NathanandMiraifan111]

That’s also the same Max Ambesi that is a huge Yuzu fan and is also very biased against anyone who beats Yuzu. Thanks but no thanks. Next.

 

[oatmella]

So in Max Ambesi’s opinion, Nathan is the deserved winner. Interesting that he mentions that Yuzu’s 4S was good in practice. Raf said in a post-worlds interview that it appeared that Yuzu ‘won’ the practices, but he didn’t want Nathan to wear himself out.
Also interesting was what Jackie/rockerskating said in recent IceTalk podcast - that over the few days of Worlds practice, Nathan went from ‘I don’t even know how to land a 4F anymore’ to two clean programs.

 

[Mrs. P]

Good for Nathan for getting over that practice bump. Practices are not always an indicator of what happens in actual competition.

I think I’m going reiterate that the main takeaway is how deep this men’s field is compared to past years. Japan, USA and Russia are strong but you also have a strong small-fed contingent in Boyang, Matteo, Michal, Kevin and Jun. And while Canada didn’t have the best showing here (one spot ) Keegan has shown this season he can be a force to be reckoned with. To get to the top 10, let alone top six, is tough with this field. Basically there are easily 10 men who can get in that top six and 15 or 16 men who could be top 10 potential.

And we have a bunch of juniors coming up that could shake things up next year.

 

[eaglehelang]

The forumer who said Max Ambesi is biased, can read Jackie Wong's math counting :
https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/3/26/opining-on-2019-worlds-doing-the-math

I'm actually surprised Jackie Wong concluded it would have been close cos he usually leans towards US skaters more. Nationalistic, patriotic a bit but of course less than NBC.

In practice reports throughout the week, Jackie was impressed with Yuzuru's 4T3A seq which he said was more impressive to see in person. He also said Nathan's quads were the best Nathan has done all season.