Worlds: Men's FS

[TontoK]

Not much to add here, except that Hanyu's 4T-3A made my jaw drop. His 3A's are just insane.

That was stunning. I mean just crazy.

But, I wonder how much sense it made strategically. A sequence gets a reduction in base value, doesn't it? Something like 80% of base?

It wouldn't have made any difference in placement here, but sill. When they are trying to eek out every single point they can, it seems like losing 20% of base off the top would be something they'd like to avoid if they could.

 

[1111bm]

No, Jason’s hands aren’t crooked.

Yes they are, they always ruin his lines and it looks very unappealing. Which is weird, considering he's supposed to be this artistic skater who, I assume, cares about extension and the aesthetics of his skating, and I have no idea who taught him to do that thing with his hands or if this is just something he himself came up with, but it always baffles me.

The poster you responded to was negative about 4 of the 5 skaters mentioned and apparently doesn’t realize that Alina didn’t skate in the men’s FS portion of the competition.

It is also beyond me, why you think it's not ok to reference another (in this case female) skater, when talking about a certain move/element just for comparison's sake, even if said skater didn't skate in this particular competition. :confused2:

Also: Yep, got it, it’s only ok to critique certain skaters, i.e. the ‚right‘ skaters :thumbsup: I will have to remember that in the future.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That was stunning. I mean just crazy.

But, I wonder how much sense it made strategically. A sequence gets a reduction in base value, doesn't it? Something like 80% of base?

It wouldn't have made any difference in placement here, but sill. When they are trying to eek out every single point they can, it seems like losing 20% of base off the top would be something they'd like to avoid if they could.

I mean it makes sense to do it off a quad for higher GOE and combo wise it still gets more points than a quad-double. I know Shoma is the only one who's proven to be capable of doing it but maybe Hanyu can turn that sequence into a 3A+4T combo and avoid the 20% deduction on each jump.

 

[TontoK]

I mean it makes sense to do it off a quad for higher GOE and combo wise it still gets more points than a quad-double. I know Shoma is the only one who's proven to be capable of doing it but maybe Hanyu can turn that sequence into a 3A+4T combo and avoid the 20% deduction on each jump.

Perhaps you're right, in that it was the best move mathematically, even taking into account the reduction in base - and considering the other jumps that were already included in the program.

Points aside, that was incredible.

 

[TontoK]

I'm betting that someone next season puts a quad on the back end of a combo.

Like a 3F-4T. The triples of the top men certainly have enough speed and flow coming out that it's achievable.

 

[Mathman]

That was stunning. I mean just crazy.

But, I wonder how much sense it made strategically. A sequence gets a reduction in base value, doesn't it? Something like 80% of base?

It wouldn't have made any difference in placement here, but sill. When they are trying to eek out every single point they can, it seems like losing 20% of base off the top would be something they'd like to avoid if they could.

I think we have to look at the program as a whole. Hanyu's two repeated jumps are the 4T and 3A. He also has a 3Lo and a 3T. He is facing Zayak problems as to what his third combination can be. I am pretty sure that all these things are considered by the coaching team. (Although he could have done a +3Lo combo instead of a solo 3Lo.)

Plus, this is so cool I could forgive a skater who says, "I'm going to do it anyway just for the 'in your face' factor."

 

[cohen-esque]

That was stunning. I mean just crazy.

But, I wonder how much sense it made strategically. A sequence gets a reduction in base value, doesn't it? Something like 80% of base?

It wouldn't have made any difference in placement here, but sill. When they are trying to eek out every single point they can, it seems like losing 20% of base off the top would be something they'd like to avoid if they could.

He gets slightly more BV points for it than doing a 4T+3T and a lot more than doing a 4+2. Plus, honestly, for Hanyu the 4T+3A is probably easier. It’s a Zayaking mess if he misses it, though.

Speaking of crooked, as always I couldn’t appreciate Jason’s skating because, you know… hands.

.... Aaaaaaaand I will never be able to not notice this again.

 

[Mathman]

I like Jason's feet.

 

[Mathman]

I'm betting that someone next season puts a quad on the back end of a combo.

Like a 3F-4T. The triples of the top men certainly have enough speed and flow coming out that it's achievable.

I am holding out for the first quad-quad combo next year.

 

[oatmella]

Even some of the top guys kinda eke out 3T on the combo at times. Not sure 4T is worth the risk - other than being the first to do one in competition. Would there be any benefit points wise?

I am not sure we will be seeing 4-4 anytime soon.

 

[Mathman]

^ I think something like 4T+4T, solo quad, 3A+3T, 3A, 3Lz+3Lo, 3F+2Lo+2T, 3S would be hard to beat. Plus, if you got past that first element the rest of the program piles up points without being insanely difficult.

 

[oatmella]

Is there any guy though that has a really good 4T and also does 3lo combos?

I read somewhere that it’s harder for guys to do 3lo combo.

Nathan practiced 4T-3T-3lo before:
https://twitter.com/kingnathan_01/status/1080929149206720512?s=21

 

[Tavi...]

Yes they are, they always ruin his lines and it looks very unappealing. Which is weird, considering he's supposed to be this artistic skater who, I assume, cares about extension and the aesthetics of his skating, and I have no idea who taught him to do that thing with his hands or if this is just something he himself came up with, but it always baffles me.




It is also beyond me, why you think it's not ok to reference another (in this case female) skater, when talking about a certain move/element just for comparison's sake, even if said skater didn't skate in this particular competition. :confused2:

Also: Yep, got it, it’s only ok to critique certain skaters, i.e. the ‚right‘ skaters :thumbsup: I will have to remember that in the future.

It has nothing to do with which skaters you criticized. It was the fact you posted negative opinions about the body lines of four skaters and found nothing positive to say.

 

[sheetz]

4-4 only makes sense in the SP. Or in a cheesefest like WTT which nobody really cares about.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Perhaps you're right, in that it was the best move mathematically, even taking into account the reduction in base - and considering the other jumps that were already included in the program.

Points aside, that was incredible.

Totally! IMO it should receive higher BV because a 3A directly out of a 4T is exceedingly difficult to execute.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Is there any guy though that has a really good 4T and also does 3lo combos?

I read somewhere that it’s harder for guys to do 3lo combo.

Nathan practiced 4T-3T-3lo before:
https://twitter.com/kingnathan_01/status/1080929149206720512?s=21

Holy crap, I'd never seen his 4T+Eu+3F before. That's amazing!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes they are, they always ruin his lines and it looks very unappealing. Which is weird, considering he's supposed to be this artistic skater who, I assume, cares about extension and the aesthetics of his skating, and I have no idea who taught him to do that thing with his hands or if this is just something he himself came up with, but it always baffles me.


It is also beyond me, why you think it's not ok to reference another (in this case female) skater, when talking about a certain move/element just for comparison's sake, even if said skater didn't skate in this particular competition. :confused2:

Also: Yep, got it, it’s only ok to critique certain skaters, i.e. the ‚right‘ skaters :thumbsup: I will have to remember that in the future.

I think I know what you're alluding to about his hands (bending at the wrists), but I actually think it's graceful... and even if his hands were Hulk fists, or looked like chicken feet, there is NO way his lines can get ruined, IMO.

I know his technical chops weren't there, but when watching him after Hanyu and Chen it was so apparent how much more superior his posture/upper body finesse is and how much refinement he brings to pretty much every movement. The top 2 guys were amazing, but the level of polish on Brown's overall skating is superior IMO. One thing I look for is the speed and depth of edgework in the footwork - particularly on the difficult turn sequences -- to me, Brown was much better than both Hanyu and Chen in this regard.

Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7dzpYNu-Zg#t=3m30s (note the speed and depth of edge on the difficult turn sequences at 3:34 - left foot and 3:45 - right foot)
Hanyu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrSmWJnFMa4#t=1m40s (turn sequences at 2:06 - right foot, and 2:14 - left foot)
Chen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YbSNk2e_DE#t=2m17s (turn sequence at 2:14 - left foot, and 2:30 - right foot)

 

[ElSoteroLoco]

Here are some random observations I noticed during the men’s FS.... if any of you can help me out with answers:

1- Why was Rika Kihira coach with Vincent Zhou’s coaches at the boards during the warmup and hugging the after he finished skating ?? Maybe offering some assistance to them on his skating landings ?? I’ve grown to like her , but she kinda frightens me lol.

2- Why was it the Vice President of the Japan skating federation granting the flowers to the medalists and not the President of JSF?? I mean, what was he doing ??? Lol. Helloooooooo. It’s the world championships being held in Japan and your country’s GOAT was on the podium. Did he have something better to do??? lol.

3- Johnny Weirs comment about figure skating being both athletic and artistic during Jason Brown FS was very insightful to me. Did anyone else think so?? After all, he did say he was in similar position to Jason in his final skating seasons.

4- Why was Shoma’s coach Mihoko fanning herself constantly in the K&C during both the SP and the FS?? I mean it’s in an ice arena.....was she having hot flashes ??? Lol....And where was Machiko(the main coach)? I was happy to see her with Shoma at the nationals, and I get it she may not wish to travel internationally as frequent but Worlds was in Japan. Just thought it would be nice for Shoma to have her there too. But I love seeing Mihoko with Shoma....she seems like such a lovely lady. But again, why was she fanning herself constantly. Lol.

5- I noticed so many of the audience with their hands clutched together while Yuzuru skated.... did anyone else?

6- that 4S Vincent landed right to the accent of the drum in his music was marvelous

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

6- that 4S Vincent landed right to the accent of the drum in his music was marvelous

Marvellous indeed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kSXkhnO-vY#t=1m30s

THIS definitely deserved a GOE bullet for "element matches musical structure". Even the little drum roll during his rotations matched up. Kudos to the choreographer, and of course for Zhou for executing it so well.

 

[ice coverage]

Here are some random observations I noticed during the men’s FS.... if any of you can help me out with answers:

1- Why was Rika Kihira coach with Vincent Zhou’s coaches at the boards during the warmup and hugging the after he finished skating ?? Maybe offering some assistance to them on his skating landings ?? I’ve grown to like her , but she kinda frightens me lol. ...

Per Lynn Rutherford's article from two days ago re Vincent:

… The skater leaves few stones unturned. While his coaches at the Broadmoor World Arena – Tammy Gambill, Christy Krall and Tom Zakrajsek – focus on elements and overall "packaging," Zhou turns to Mie Hamada, coach of Japanese stars Satoko Miyahara and Rika Kihira, to address his knee bend and arm movements. During her visits to Colorado Springs, he has worked with her on building speed. ...

https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...-to-create-some-magic-moments-in-saitama.aspx​

Not in reply to your question, but I really liked this part of the article too:

… Other World Arena professionals have helped Zhou further hone his performance quality, musicality and skating skills.

"What makes Vincent so unique is he finds out what he wants and then he goes after it," Ryan Jahnke, a two-time U.S. medalist who now coaches in Colorado Springs, said.

"Five days a week, I teach a skating skills class – 20 minutes, at 10 a.m. When he's in town, he takes it. He's the only Olympic-caliber skater that comes. He's not too big to work out. He left for Worlds on a Wednesday, and I think he was in the class that Monday." ...​

---

Congratulations to all the (small and "large") medalists.