2015 Rostelecom Cup Ladies Free Skate

[largeman]

Judge Wapamatron got a few calls to take the case and even with all of the incriminating footage I supplied him with his final decision is that it should have received just a " ! " and not a full " e ". Especially when considering the previous cases as a being precedent this season. Judge for yourself. Maybe you can appeal the decision.

Objection! Defense is distracting Your Honor with adorable images of Yulia Lipnitskaya. Also, Defense is zooming in too early, when the toe pick has not even hit the ice?

https://youtu.be/Hyc2EYoYQJA?t=24s Full e please

 

[WeakAnkles]

Thank you for mentioning Adelina's performance skills. I can't express enough how much a difference they make when you're watching a live event. I keep mentioning her but, Maria Butyrskaya was NOT the biggest thrill to watch on TV but..........She was Gorgeous and Very Flirtatious with the Judges. Especially during her St James Infirmary SP. You couldn't tell on TV but when I saw her in Helsinki. She Shimmied, She winked, She smirked, She even blew a kiss at the Judges and believe me. We were ALL in love with her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cht_9tFzq-Q From the Japan Open.

I do miss the fabulous Ms B and Terry Gannon gushing over how she would "stop traffic" when rollerblading.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Objection! Defense is distracting Your Honor with adorable images of Yulia Lipnitskaya. Also, Defense is zooming in too early, when the toe pick has not even hit the ice?

https://youtu.be/Hyc2EYoYQJA?t=24s Full e please

I'll allow it .

I actually paused it during the toe pick impact and her blade is sideways which is a bit inconclusive but leaves a very big "?" on it doesn't it. Maybe that was an editing failure that will be noted for future cases.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[chairmanmao]

Ashley and Gracie are earning equally high PCS and I don't think they, particularly Ashley, are superior in any way.

In comparison to the likes of Wagner and Gold Sotnikova's PCS seems very fair. It's Mao that is underscored she should be scoring in the 70's.

 

[chairmanmao]

Except that it doesn't really happen that way. Remember the olympics. We all know those pcs are ********.

Still pining for that imaginary gold medal for Kim?

 

[Alex D]

I do not like the bashing here,

Adelina is a great figure skater, who has a very lovely skating style. There must be a gap in PC´s in regards to the kids, a gap that in my opinion was not high enough. It does make a difference when a woman is skating, it must be reflected in PC´s, just like it does when Gracie is on the ice. There is nothing wrong with either of them getting higher PC´s, than those several years younger than them.

Besides that, she definitely did not win an Olympic gold medal because of the ISU or her federation, but because of two brilliant skates. I think it is a shame that some people can not let go and get over a "loss" of their idol and still hate Adelina for that. If the Russian goes clean, then there is hardly a match for that, very similar to Gracie. We should be grateful to have these two skaters and not bash them all the time.

 

[koatcue]

I think worlds would be tougher to make the podium, but not by much. There are maybe 5 Russians who could compete for the world podium, 2 Americans and maybe 4 Japanese women. Those three countries could take the top 10 spots if they could send more than 3 skaters each.

3 at max

 

[koatcue]

Oh really? So you're saying that the Russian title + no Worlds medal + no GPF medal > World Bronze + GPF Bronze + Silver/Bronze at Nationals.

I wonder how many people would choose to have the former over the latter.

Usually "Russian title" translates in a high podium finish at Worlds and so on

 

[Meoima]

I do not like the bashing here,

Adelina is a great figure skater, who has a very lovely skating style. There must be a gap in PC´s in regards to the kids, a gap that in my opinion was not high enough. It does make a difference when a woman is skating, it must be reflected in PC´s, just like it does when Gracie is on the ice. There is nothing wrong with either of them getting higher PC´s, than those several years younger than them.

Besides that, she definitely did not win an Olympic gold medal because of the ISU or her federation, but because of two brilliant skates. I think it is a shame that some people can not let go and get over a "loss" of their idol and still hate Adelina for that. If the Russian goes clean, then there is hardly a match for that, very similar to Gracie. We should be grateful to have these two skaters and not bash them all the time.

I agree that Adelina and Gracie have very strong presence on ice. Their SS are top notch too. I can't believe they're saying these two don't have good SS. They have speed and fluidity and they cover ice so effortlessly. They're great skaters with huge talents. Their spins and jumps are great too. They deserve respect, not bashing.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

There was talk about Zhenya not receiving an edge call on her lutz. Judge Wapamatron got a few calls to take the case and even with all of the incriminating footage I supplied him with his final decision is that it should have received just a " ! " and not a full " e ". Especially when considering the previous cases as a being precedent this season. Judge for yourself. Maybe you can appeal the decision.

https://youtu.be/Hyc2EYoYQJA

That camera ankle is tricky I guess I'd still give it an e, but I wouldn't complain either if it was a !. It definitely should have gotten some edge call, especially compared to Elena, Adelina and Rika all getting one.


And a ! should have lowered the GOE and given Elena the LP win. And all would be well for me

Thank you very much for the video! And and @Adelina&Julia (sorry Eteri, none for you!)

 

[Lexiglass]

Well I've finally had a chance to watch the free skates and I'm definitely side eyeing the judges a little on this one. I think Adelina is clearly a talented skater, and has superior skating skills and presentation to many of the ladies in the field, but this outting was not very impressive and surely not deserving of a medal compared to others who accomplished more difficult content with fewer mistakes. I really feel for this girl, it's not her fault that the judges want to gift with her results to justify her OGM but it does nobody any favors. I just don't understand how anyone could give her high 8's or 9's in PE with so many big, visible errors, when she was visibly running out of gas towards the end of her performance. I hope she will continue to train and improve because at her best I think she could certainly compete with the best in the world, but a bronze medal here was wrong IMO.

Very impressed with Elena, I didn't expect her to be able to put it together for both programs. She really needs to work on her posture and straightening out those long legs, but I love how gritty she is. She refuses to let you count her out. Evgenia's programs are a little boring to me but I could easily see her becoming a favorite skater when she matures a bit. This was a nice Russian nationals preview ;-)

 

[OS]

Still pining for that imaginary gold medal for Kim?

How predictable of you to drag Kim in to this. Arn't you a bit desperate to start pick on one of your own? Leonardo is a big Mao and Team Japan fan I thought.

--------

I don't think anyone is bashing Adelina, but why it is always the same pattern.

Someone criticise the judging, fans unable to defend the judging (other than they think is deserved) then resort to accuse others of bashing the skater when it should be perfectly possible and reasonable to talk about the scoring in an international sport forum where every aspect of the sport should be discussed openly, even opposing views?

For every person who think she deserve 69 in PCS for 3 clean triples FS program with no lutz, I can find 2+ people more and historical records who disagrees with this, that is the nature of this sport, human judging, subjective vs objective.

When it really comes down to it, there are suppose to be some correlation between PCS and TES as the two need to be weighed in balance to judge the sport with credibility. If someone made as much errors as she has, their PCS should suffer and if they don't, the judged score get criticism and rightly so. Carolina's 2014WC FS for example rightfully received big criticisms here. Her FS there
TES 53.81 (she at least did a 3lutz)
PCS 73.78 (big criticism)
19.97 points difference separate her TES and PCS

Adelina here
TES 51.25
PCS 69.38
18.13 points difference separate her TES and PCS

The thing I noticed with Adelina's PCS is literally bullet proof which always slant the competition, when others like Liza or Elena, or even Gracie, Ashley make mistakes, their PCS goes down (even Patrick and Hanyu), with Adelina, her PCS actually goes up. She has never beaten in PCS no matter how badly she performed vs other Russian ladies (except Elena this time by 0.18 in the SP, it was historical. 3lz3t vs a 3t2t SP. 38.44 TES vs 32.21). If we focus on the score, then we can have a conversation.

 

[flying camel]

I totally agree about Polinas dress. Taking from the curtain dress would bring out her complexion. This dress looks a little juniorish. Mama must have stepped in.

 

[jenm]

I do not like the bashing here,

Adelina is a great figure skater, who has a very lovely skating style. There must be a gap in PC´s in regards to the kids, a gap that in my opinion was not high enough. It does make a difference when a woman is skating, it must be reflected in PC´s, just like it does when Gracie is on the ice. There is nothing wrong with either of them getting higher PC´s, than those several years younger than them.

Besides that, she definitely did not win an Olympic gold medal because of the ISU or her federation, but because of two brilliant skates. I think it is a shame that some people can not let go and get over a "loss" of their idol and still hate Adelina for that. If the Russian goes clean, then there is hardly a match for that, very similar to Gracie. We should be grateful to have these two skaters and not bash them all the time.

I personally think it's not about age but how the skaters skate in each event. Ade was indeed more mature now and skates more fluidly than before but it doesn't take away the fact that she was not perfect in this event and her performance here wasn't her best. I like her but IMO, a 63-5 would have been fair for her performance here. Actually, I think Evgenia and Elena's PCS are also overscored by some points and it's not because they're young but because they don't have SS in the high 8s yet. Even in CR or IN. PE scores are deserved for me. And tech somehow ignored Evgenia's Flutz.

See, just because people criticize the scoring it doesn't automatically mean they are Yuna fans or they hate Adelina. I don't think it's bashing. I think it's more observation and constructive criticism. If I say Ade is ugly or that she skates like a junior when she doesn't, that's bashing and should rightly be called on but disagreeing with the scores because of seeing the performances isn't what I would call bashing. We all have different opinions.

 

[gmyers]

Sotnikova should not have medaled with a 3 triple free skate. It just wasnt right.

 

[Sabrina]

I was not a fan of Adelina during the Olympics, but I liked her here, though she was not perfect. She may not have deserved the bronze medal but I think she took full advantage of the mistakes other skaters did (Rika and Alaine). I am not sure Polina should have come third. I think, in the end she got some help, but her bronze medal is partly OK. I loved her speed, and her gracious skating. Though not perfect, it's a nice come back. I respect and love her decision to come back. The memory of Olympic champions quitting competitive figure skating quickly after the win still haunts me.

 

[Alex D]

I don't think anyone is bashing Adelina, but why it is always the same pattern.

Then the mods were quick and deleted these posts already, as there was a lot of trash talking going on when I checked this morning.

Someone criticise the judging, fans unable to defend the judging (other than they think is deserved) then resort to accuse others of bashing the skater when it should be perfectly possible and reasonable to talk about the scoring in an international sport forum where every aspect of the sport should be discussed openly, even opposing views?

The problem is, people do not want to discuss it at all. How are we supposed to discuss something when the other side thinks that a good jumper automatically qualifies for the highest PC´s, even if he or she has an empty program? No offence, but this is not possible. We have to accept I think that there are skating fans, who believe that figure skating is all about TES and you can not change their view, as it is their opinion.

I also think that enough plausible things were said here, as to why Adelina deserves higher PC´s than skaters who do not have her skating skills, the expression or weaker linking and transitions. You do not need to be a figure skating judge, to see the difference between skaters such as Gracie, Adelina, Mao, Yuna ... compared to others.

For every person who think she deserve 69 in PCS for 3 clean triples FS program with no lutz, I can find 2+ people more and historical records who disagrees with this, that is the nature of this sport, human judging, subjective vs objective.

But you are not objective with this. Show me the ISU rule that says, that a person with three triples gets a deduction in PC´s, because this is what you claim would exist. In my opinion, TES and PC´s should be seen as two components that make the final score. High PC´s, should not influence the TES, just like the TES should not influence the PC´s - latter sadly, is not the case.

I also think that we need to look at this from a different point of view. If someone does not deliver his or her jumps, then the TES will be significantly lower than of others who skated better. This is how it should be and this is how its done by the judges, call it a punishment for being not as good / skilled if you like. If we now start to punish a skater further, by automatically lowering the PC´s, then the whole sport would become a joke. It would lead to empty programs, with no choreography, where artistry is no longer existent, as it can no longer help a skater to advance. All you would need are a tons of quads and triples and you win the Olympics, a very depressing future if you ask me.

Another aspect is, why do we punish skaters with weak TES, but not those with weak PCs? Why are skaters with weak PC´s protected, only because they jump better? This doesn´t seem right to me.

In my opinion, it is very important to make figure skating more interesting again for the general public and you can not do this by 5 or 6 quads, but by better rewards for strong choreography, good musical choice, staying in character, smooth skating skills and so on. A program like of Rika, must be rewarded better, did you see how the crowds went crazy every time she performed? This is what people want to see, they want to be entertained. It would be a crucial mistake, to no longer support this in figure skating, that said, Rika did not get that high PC´s at China, which was wrong in my opinion.

When it really comes down to it, there are suppose to be some correlation between PCS and TES as the two need to be weighed in balance to judge the sport with credibility. If someone made as much errors as she has, their PCS should suffer and if they don't, the judged score get criticism and rightly so.

If we follow that rule, then why not lift up the TES of a skater with no triples, to the TES of someone with triples, after all we need to weigh them in balance as you said. :sarcasm: You can not argue for balance only in one way, it must work the other way too, you know.
So if you want to gift someone with PC´s, even if the program does not deserve them, then you also need to gift someone with weak TES, these bonus points, if he or she is strong in PCs.

Maybe you realize now, how silly that would be, right?

Therefore, it should not be linked in my opinion, unfortunately do a lot of TES qualify for high PC´s already, even if the programs are not nearly that good. So that influence which you want is already there, I find it wrong, but this is a 50/50 situation anyways and one of these never ending discussions in FS. You won´t understand our side, just like we won´t understand yours.

Besides that, Adelina also got the medal, because others skated poorly (sorry girls, but you had a chance to medal and you know it). Several skaters had the chance to beat her with a clean FS, it is not the Russians fault, that others did not take their chances.

I hope you are not offended, but I have my moments sometimes I respect your view and opinion, please try to also understand and respect mine.

 

[Elen2702]

Sotnikova's program is laughably OTT, and her suffering Titian expressions are killing me. She overemotes more than Ashley Wagner. There's not subtlety with this girl.

Her spiral and spins are gorgeous, and her speed is great to watch.

I do not like this program. But I like Adeline. It is better to look at she live at the rink.Great skating skills.

 

[jenaj]

International Results >>>>>> National Results

Especially with major inflation at national events.

Not sure I agree in Sarah's case. US nationals was arguably a tougher event in her era. And the concept of national inflation doesn't really apply in the 6.0 era. But that doesn't really say whose overall record was better. I do think Adelina is a better skater.

 

[mrrice]

Usually "Russian title" translates in a high podium finish at Worlds and so on

Yes it does and rightly so. The Russian field is deep and they know how hard it is to stay on top. Before I went to Worlds in 1999, I had always heard that "The Russians" never jumped during practice runs at competitions. I had also heard they weren't friendly and not to try to talk to them. It's all a bunch of BS. During our tour for Coca Cola, we performed at several Hockey Rink's because their contract with Pepsi was ending at the end of 1999. The fact that we were in Helsinki was by pure chance and I was no never so excited.

I had only been to one other skating event and that was Skate America in 1991. The best part of that event was Tonya Harding who landed a HUGE Triple Axel and Kristi Yamaguchi. Who are both SHIMPS. I walked by Kristi when she was back stage in her skates and guards and she barely came up to my shoulder and I'm only 5'10".

Anyway. After seeing Maria in person, it was clear to me that she ( Barring a melt down) was by far the best skater at the event. Now, Michelle was a good skater but next to Maria, she still looked like a little girl. Fortunately, she matured and IMO was at her best in 2001 in Vancouver.