This and That: NHK Trophy
- Thread starter TSLDave
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
Does Ashley need to be an underdog?
It seems she does perform better when she is.
Ashley Gracie GPF
Gracie should do better then Ashley but I don't think they will medal.
Can Hanyu be perfect again?
Not likely but I really hope he does at worlds.
Quad lutz?
I think they should it bad enough that the quas sal take away from the program.
Shibutanis vs Chock&Bates
The Shibs I my opinion are the stronger team this year none of the other teams have impressed me this season. They should win the GPF if they skate clean but, as other have mention they probably won't regardless of how they skate.
It seems she does perform better when she is.
Ashley Gracie GPF
Gracie should do better then Ashley but I don't think they will medal.
Can Hanyu be perfect again?
Not likely but I really hope he does at worlds.
Quad lutz?
I think they should it bad enough that the quas sal take away from the program.
Shibutanis vs Chock&Bates
The Shibs I my opinion are the stronger team this year none of the other teams have impressed me this season. They should win the GPF if they skate clean but, as other have mention they probably won't regardless of how they skate.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2013
Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
No, she needs a sports psychologist.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I think Gracie will medal and Ashley will be 4-6
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I don't think so. There was a certain kind of magic in that one (maybe being at home) that would be hard to reproduce by anyone ever again.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
No. I think it'll get there.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
I really don't know. But I'm really loving the Shibs this year. I'd be happy if they did pull it off.
No, she needs a sports psychologist.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I think Gracie will medal and Ashley will be 4-6
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I don't think so. There was a certain kind of magic in that one (maybe being at home) that would be hard to reproduce by anyone ever again.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
No. I think it'll get there.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
I really don't know. But I'm really loving the Shibs this year. I'd be happy if they did pull it off.
Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
No, I don't think so. Ashley is an over-achiever, so it's not surprising that she sometimes can't live up to her own past achievements. If she can skate her short program clean, she will likely be on the World team.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
It depends on how each does in the short program. If Gracie skates a clean short, she will rank above Ashley and could win the whole thing.
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Probably not (regression towards the mean). Or at least not both the long and the short. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes unless they can do it consistently in practice.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Yes--and I loved their short program!
No, I don't think so. Ashley is an over-achiever, so it's not surprising that she sometimes can't live up to her own past achievements. If she can skate her short program clean, she will likely be on the World team.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
It depends on how each does in the short program. If Gracie skates a clean short, she will rank above Ashley and could win the whole thing.
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Probably not (regression towards the mean). Or at least not both the long and the short. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes unless they can do it consistently in practice.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Yes--and I loved their short program!
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Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
I think she's always performed better in that space (the GPF last year, at Nationals wanting her title back, etc) but she's got to learn to perform under pressure. I think this was the worst performance I've seen her do of MR, without the jumps mostly working she didn't sell as much as she usually does.
But as somebody else said, a lot of skaters perform better as the underdog - it's not a problem that just Ashley has.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I will give Gracie the edge here although you never know since ice is slippery. (Everyone thought Mao would win here and look what happened)
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Possibly, if he continues to train like he has and is not injured. We all know that he can make mistakes (remember his placement in the SP at SC?), too but I think he and Brian are very focused this season so he could pull off another world record. Plus that long program is to die for. Shae Lynn outdid herself and hope she is getting credit.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Probably (this reminds me of the Adam Rippon question). Keep working on it in practice and if it's consistent, put it in. I don't think they really need it. I had to LOL when you said that Eric's eyes start to glaze over when she starts talking post skate.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Possibly. I would love to see this since they had the highest FD score of anyone in the GP to date. If they skate at the level they are at, I think it can be done. I'm also more of a Shibs fan than a C/B fan so I'm biased. If C/B win, it will be very close. Also depends on skating order - if the Shibs win the SD and skate last with no mistakes they will win. I always remember when V/M skated before D/W they always scored very high but then lost.
I enjoyed the recap but what happened to the GS shout out? I also am glad you brought up the Raf interview and not following up on the "lack of education" question. I really was hoping you and Jenny would've follow up to have him clarify what he meant by that but understand why you didn't. There was some discussion here on GS about that and I think we concluded that it was lack of skating skills growing up, not that Ashley and Adam were stupid, lol.
I think she's always performed better in that space (the GPF last year, at Nationals wanting her title back, etc) but she's got to learn to perform under pressure. I think this was the worst performance I've seen her do of MR, without the jumps mostly working she didn't sell as much as she usually does.
But as somebody else said, a lot of skaters perform better as the underdog - it's not a problem that just Ashley has.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I will give Gracie the edge here although you never know since ice is slippery. (Everyone thought Mao would win here and look what happened)
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Possibly, if he continues to train like he has and is not injured. We all know that he can make mistakes (remember his placement in the SP at SC?), too but I think he and Brian are very focused this season so he could pull off another world record. Plus that long program is to die for. Shae Lynn outdid herself and hope she is getting credit.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Probably (this reminds me of the Adam Rippon question). Keep working on it in practice and if it's consistent, put it in. I don't think they really need it. I had to LOL when you said that Eric's eyes start to glaze over when she starts talking post skate.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Possibly. I would love to see this since they had the highest FD score of anyone in the GP to date. If they skate at the level they are at, I think it can be done. I'm also more of a Shibs fan than a C/B fan so I'm biased. If C/B win, it will be very close. Also depends on skating order - if the Shibs win the SD and skate last with no mistakes they will win. I always remember when V/M skated before D/W they always scored very high but then lost.
I enjoyed the recap but what happened to the GS shout out? I also am glad you brought up the Raf interview and not following up on the "lack of education" question. I really was hoping you and Jenny would've follow up to have him clarify what he meant by that but understand why you didn't. There was some discussion here on GS about that and I think we concluded that it was lack of skating skills growing up, not that Ashley and Adam were stupid, lol.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Hanyu is an exception to the rule; I believe he can skate consistently. Both American ladies are capable of winning the world and Grand Prix title and both are capable of complete melt downs. my bet right now is on Gracie but you just don't know. (I am sorry to say that the NHK Trophy also seems to signal Mirai really is not good enough to compete with the top ladies. I am starting to lose faith that she will really be a challenger and if so it is a fluke. The training of the triple axel really seems like a last ditch effort ut one wonders how legitimate it is when she still underrotates lesser jumps. I do like the Shibs more than Chock and Bates this year but We'll see if the judges are ready to drop the world silver medallists. NHK also signalled Russia's dance teams are in trouble as potentially their top team B and S almost lost to the third American team. Russia might find it hard to get three teams for 2017 (Italians, French, 3 Americans, 2 Canadians ahead of them is the worst scenario.) As for Duhamel and Radford the scoring system I think is a bit unfair that throws are worth so little compared to lifts and twists. If they were smart and could do it regularly a throw triple axel is the smarter route - it could be used in the short program. They do need to work on cleaning up elements and the performance but if it is true the germans have 3 quads and individual triple triples they have no choice. Of course everyone says they are doing quad = those doing it regularly in competition are slim.
This. I'm calling it right now, U.S. ladies are being set up for podiums. If Gracie skates clean, she's going to get gold. If she skates clean-ish, she will be on the podium. Expect Sochi-level marks inflation for the U.S. ladies in Boston.
I hope so too. At NHK there was no hesitation on anything. You could read from his face he knew he will do his program cleanly. Hi didn't went out to try skate cleanly, he went out to skate cleanly.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
I think Ashley does much better when she has to come from behind. It's like she gains a fierceness and a determination and just goes out and skates instead of worrying about every jump. She was so tentative in her SP. But she's really going to have to bring it if she wants to medal in Barcelona
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I'm a big Gracie fan. If they both skate clean Gracie could win it. She has some pretty tough competition though with the Russians and now the Japanese. I think Gracie will medal and Ashley will come in 4th
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I certainly think he's capable but that was the skate of a lifetime. Everything just fell into place. If he does have another performance like that no one in the world can come close
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes. They don't need it.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the finals
I have always preferred the Shibs to C&B so I'm hoping they can come out on top
I think Ashley does much better when she has to come from behind. It's like she gains a fierceness and a determination and just goes out and skates instead of worrying about every jump. She was so tentative in her SP. But she's really going to have to bring it if she wants to medal in Barcelona
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
I'm a big Gracie fan. If they both skate clean Gracie could win it. She has some pretty tough competition though with the Russians and now the Japanese. I think Gracie will medal and Ashley will come in 4th
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I certainly think he's capable but that was the skate of a lifetime. Everything just fell into place. If he does have another performance like that no one in the world can come close
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes. They don't need it.
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the finals
I have always preferred the Shibs to C&B so I'm hoping they can come out on top
Do you think the judges are colluding on this? Or that that ISU is directing them to make sure an American is on the podium? From a publicity/fan-interest standpoint, it would make sense. But from a sports perspective, it would be wrong. Gracie, in my opinion, doesn't need any help to get on the podium except from herself. If she delivers two clean skates, I think she would be a deserving winner.
I don't know why Mirai at NHK would signal that she is not good enough to compete. She was less than 2 points behind Ashley and was judged rather harshly. I feel quite certain that Mirai can rotate doubles (she was called on doubles in combination). Her score in that respect was the fluke. I'm not giving up on her.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
I agree. Especially with negative GOE on the loop in the short and it was really well done. It's the same with her 3/3 combos. The toes were just about there, I have seen other skaters be credited for worse! Call under rotations, that's fine, but call them for all. Mirai was so held down in the short and she should not have been. And people wonder why it's hard for her to get confident...
Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
She is the underdog at NHK with a three-time World champion and a World silver medalist at their home.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
6th and 3rd （Interested to see if Gracie will get a “！” for her Lip）
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Unlikely. But he doesn't need to be at his 100% to win at GPF and Worlds, let's just hope he stays healthy and don't replicate his SP at SC.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Only if Chock and Bates make a mistake. If both clean, I don't think they can upset them this season.
She is the underdog at NHK with a three-time World champion and a World silver medalist at their home.
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
6th and 3rd （Interested to see if Gracie will get a “！” for her Lip）
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
Unlikely. But he doesn't need to be at his 100% to win at GPF and Worlds, let's just hope he stays healthy and don't replicate his SP at SC.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad lutz?
Yes
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
Only if Chock and Bates make a mistake. If both clean, I don't think they can upset them this season.
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Strongly disagree with TSL's commentary about Yu/Jin's programs/performances.
Also, I think euro sports and CBC commentary disagree with TSL's opinions about Yu/Jin's programs/performances as well.
Those 2 programs, from music choice to choreography were showered with praise from them(eurosport and CBC) since the debut of these 2 programs. These 2 programs were also very well received among Chinese figure skating fans, thought it was a rare fit for the rare quality of these 2 skaters. as CBC put it recently "effortless elegance".
If TSL really has time to care about Chinese skaters, maybe could check those commentary clips out.
The music for their long is "Humility and Love" (from "Creation" soundtrack)
Not every program is over-the-top/right-in-your-face kinda presentation, just saying.
This being said, does not mean that Yu/Jin cannot do other genres, wait and see what they will brought on to the table next season and be surprised. No matter what, these 2 pieces will be one of their signature piece in their career and also one of those very rare type of figure skating programs.
Also, I think euro sports and CBC commentary disagree with TSL's opinions about Yu/Jin's programs/performances as well.
Those 2 programs, from music choice to choreography were showered with praise from them(eurosport and CBC) since the debut of these 2 programs. These 2 programs were also very well received among Chinese figure skating fans, thought it was a rare fit for the rare quality of these 2 skaters. as CBC put it recently "effortless elegance".
If TSL really has time to care about Chinese skaters, maybe could check those commentary clips out.
The music for their long is "Humility and Love" (from "Creation" soundtrack)
Not every program is over-the-top/right-in-your-face kinda presentation, just saying.
This being said, does not mean that Yu/Jin cannot do other genres, wait and see what they will brought on to the table next season and be surprised. No matter what, these 2 pieces will be one of their signature piece in their career and also one of those very rare type of figure skating programs.
Cappellini & Lanotte have the highest FD score of anyone on the GP. The Shibutanis have the highest combined SD & FD score of anyone on the GP. Weaver & Poje have the only two wins. And Chock & Bates have the highest SD score (ironically for a two-week old SD performed on home ice). This is going to be a dogfight.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Does Ashley need to be the underdog?
It's all in her head...
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
Gracie higher. She has a chance to medal.
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I hope so. One would think so, because he looked incredible here. He gives his perception that he's more consistent than he actually is, I think. But as we've seen, he can go from a short program of 73 to 106 in two weeks.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad flip?
Hot, hot mess. And not just the quad flip...
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
They SHOULD be winning over them but for BS reasons...
It's all in her head...
How will Ashley and Gracie rank at the final?
Gracie higher. She has a chance to medal.
Can Hanyu replicate that performance again this season?
I hope so. One would think so, because he looked incredible here. He gives his perception that he's more consistent than he actually is, I think. But as we've seen, he can go from a short program of 73 to 106 in two weeks.
Should Duhamel and Radford ditch the quad flip?
Hot, hot mess. And not just the quad flip...
Can the Shibutanis upset Chock and Bates at the Final?
They SHOULD be winning over them but for BS reasons...
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To be fair, Eurosport tries to stay positive on everyone. We like Yu and Jin as skaters. We don't care for their material. It is simply our opinion. There is more than one judge on a panel. It is nothing against Chinese skaters. I expect Sui and Han to perform very well at the final.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree with yours, so as Eurosport and CBC, especially regarding their programs/choreography/music choice. Their execution could fluctuate from different outings.
I also do NOT think TSL are against Chinese skaters, I want to make this clear here, I just assume that TSL don't really know/care/familiar with Chinese skaters. I know that TSL appreciate Sui/Han a lot, especially since TSL witnessed their live performances at SA.
BTW, I am a fan of TSL and watched almost everything TSL put out there from very beginning. But here, I strongly disagree with TSL regarding this and also pointed out that perhaps Eurosports and CBC also disagrees. Of course, people could have different opinions. I chose to voice my opinion here because, I actually watch TSL a lot, kinda wanna communicate a bit.
Again, I wanna state that I have a different opinion, also the info I provided and the explanation of my opinion is just to offer more informations regarding Yu/Jin. I am NOT seeking TSL's agreement at all.
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Mirai was 3.69 points behind Ashley overall, 2.61 points in the SP and 1.08 point in the FS. In both SP and FS, Mirai was actually ahead of Ashley in TES, by 1.95 and 5.35 points, respectively---because Ashley got a deduction from her 3f in her SP and downgrades on two triples in her FS.
But Ashley sells the heck out of her programs, from start to finish and is rewarded with high PCS scores in the 8s for both SP and FS. OTOH, while Mirai will occasionally smile a bit here and there but mostly remain expressionless until the last 30 seconds of her programs, when she relaxes and smiles more; her PCS scores remain in the low 7s for her SPs and the mid 7s for her FSs and have remained there for the past four years.
Mirai is aware that her PCS scores haven't changed and that is why she feels she isn't good enough.
Many have commented that she expresses herself beautifully at exhibitions but can't seem to do so in competition and this is the crux of her problem: she has GOT to do it if she wants to be competitive. It is all in her head.
Definitely the 'deal making' for the second half of the season into Worlds is going to be fascinating. In particular, there seems to be more than the usual amount of potential for conflict between the aims of individual coaches/camps versus the national federation's interests (e.g., getting back 3 spots in Dance in particular for 2017 worlds) for Russia. While this clearly "plays out" to an extent at their national championships, given the World team selection still hinges on results from Europeans, coupled with the ability to simply "name" their team there are certainly going to be plenty of "layers" to the dealmaking. I use Russia as an example, but obviously each country has their handful of "chips" to play, to exchange, to sacrifice, etc.
