Half of World Top Ten Out of Ladies Worlds

[Daniel1998]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, especially since I'm also a big curling fan and Canada could arguably send 6 or 7 men's and women's teams to worlds with a good chance of medaling.

I don't want to repeat everything that's been said (I agree with it all), but I'd like to add that at least for curling, the national restrictions make the Scotties (women's national championships) and the Brier (men's national championships) so much more exciting because there's only one team that gets to go. If 5 Canadian teams were able to go, the Scotties and the Brier frankly wouldn't really matter and all the intensity would be drained from the event.

The same thing can probably be said for Russian Nationals- the only reason it's such a thrilling competition is because only a select few out of a deserving bunch of people get to go. In some ways it's unfair, but at the same time it makes the events more fun to watch from a viewership standpoint.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I say give Canada curling back if it means only the top figure skaters in the world competing at WC. You'd still have Euros,4CC, and Olympics to encourage development around the world to boot I just don't care and will never root for someone based on a country and until it's a non issue the sport will always be plagued by bias. I'm hoping one day that people represent sponsors and not nations but only sports in tune with the times do that so I hardly dare bring it up here.

Obviously I'm not bias against the little guys so I'd encourage paths for people from smaller Feds to qualify or get exemptions like top 15 in two international events and other ways to earn a spot at Worlds but the sport probably does more to diminish stars than it does to grow them under the current mold.

 

[karne]

Obviously I'm not bias against the little guys so I'd encourage paths for people from smaller Feds to qualify or get exemptions like top 15 in two international events and other waysto earn a spot at Worlds but the sport probably does more to kill stars than it does to grow them under the current mold.

Under the stupid plan suggested by so many to flood Worlds with big-country skaters, a skater like Julian, a skater like Brendan, would never get a chance. Wouldn't you say that's "killing" stars?

 

[Barb]

I used to think that in Worlds they should let compete just at the best skaters of the world, but really the fact that skaters must gain that spots is very exciting for us, hahaha, poor skaters. And I enjoy GPF with the best of the best, and with time this competition (GPF) has gained prestige. And yes, skaters of small federations can compete in other tournaments but they really only got exposition at worlds or 4cc. Look at this korean team, they got already 28,000 views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2RbKpVpEig, this big competitions are their opportunity.

 

[el henry]

I guess I'm with a "bigger" fed, but I have never ever understood this argument. After all, as an American, should I say send the top ten Ice Dance teams by score to Worlds? I don't follow ID enough to know the result, but I would guess lots of North Americans and the French and the Italians? Too bad, Russia and Asia, b-b-bye:dev2: But as a fan of skating I don't want that result.

The only way it makes sense is if the skaters are not identified by country. And I still wouldn't like it. Not worth missing Julian Yee or even Kai Xiang Chew:noshake:

 

[SnowWhite]

If something like this were to happen, I think it should be the season rankings or seasons bests and not world rankings because they cover multiple seasons as others have said, but I don't have a problem with the current system. I think it gives athletes from other countries a chance to shine, which is a good thing. That's how it works with Olympic sports, each country can only send a certain number of athletes so that you get broader representation.

 

[4everchan]

I guess I'm with a "bigger" fed, but I have never ever understood this argument. After all, as an American, should I say send the top ten Ice Dance teams by score to Worlds? I don't follow ID enough to know the result, but I would guess lots of North Americans and the French and the Italians? Too bad, Russia and Asia, b-b-bye:dev2: But as a fan of skating I don't want that result.

The only way it makes sense is if the skaters are not identified by country. And I still wouldn't like it. Not worth missing Julian Yee or even Kai Xiang Chew:noshake:

1 197.22 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN ISU Grand Prix Final
2 193.50 Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON FRA ISU GP Trophee de France
3 191.85 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA ISU Four Continents Championships
4 188.24 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2016
5 186.68 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2016
6 186.64 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA ISU European Championships 2017
7 185.19 Elena ILINYKH / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN RUS ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2016
8 182.57 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER CAN ISU GP Skate Canada International 2016
9 181.54 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2016
10 180.82 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2017



11 180.30 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI ITA ISU CS Golden Spin 2016
12 177.80 Isabella TOBIAS / Ilia TKACHENKO ISR ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2016
13 177.41 Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN RUS ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2016
14 177.36 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER USA ISU CS Golden Spin 2016
15 173.02 Tiffani ZAGORSKI / Jonathan GUERREIRO RUS ISU CS Warsaw Cup 2016
16 171.94 Victoria SINITSINA / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2016

17 167.81 Elliana POGREBINSKY / Alex BENOIT USA ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2016
18 163.00 Alisa AGAFONOVA / Alper UCAR TUR ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2016
19 162.50 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS USA ISU Junior Grand Prix Final
20 161.87 Alla LOBODA / Pavel DROZD RUS ISU Junior Grand Prix Final 2016/17
21 160.68 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN DEN ISU European Championships 2017
22 159.30 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Quinn CARPENTER USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2016
23 157.19 Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO USA ISU JGP Cup of Mordovia 2016
24 156.02 Natalia KALISZEK / Maksym SPODYRIEV POL ISU European Championships 2017
25 155.34 Kavita LORENZ / Joti POLIZOAKIS GER ISU CS Golden Spin 2016
26 155.22 Betina POPOVA / Sergey MOZGOV RUS ISU CS Golden Spin 2016
27 154.65 Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN UKR ISU European Championships 2017
28 154.23 Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU CHN ISU Four Continents Championships 2017
29 152.40 Marie-Jade LAURIAULT / Romain LE GAC FRA ISU European Championships 2017

i don't know which russian team is #2 and will go to WC.... but you can see here that all the american and canadian teams are going and are in top ten.... the french have 3 spots but will most likely only use 2??? the italians also have 2 spots... what's interesting is that a country like the UK has two spots, but because their top team has been injured they haven't competed this season.

So, in this case, there is not really a change in the top ten... but if we go further down, before we get French team # 2 or the first Chinese team, we have to go through a long list of American and Russian junior teams + a few senior teams, from the same two countries who won't be competing because of the limited national spots. So it's actually great that there is a limit to 3 per country.... the juniors can have their own event where they can grow and shine... and some very good senior teams like Wang/Liu, can take part and make it to the free dance.

 

[zebobes]

I think that while the competition would be thrilling at first, there would be a huge drop off in quality in skating. One reason the skaters from the big countries are so good is that they are forced to prove themselves from a very young age. You can see that in the Russian skaters who choose to switch to smaller countries in order to make it to worlds. If it's a single skater, they usually don't make it very far because they don't HAVE to.

So for the bigger countries, I argue that the carrot of getting three spots is a tremendous motivator to improve every year, and creates a better competition.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Under the stupid plan suggested by so many to flood Worlds with big-country skaters, a skater like Julian, a skater like Brendan, would never get a chance. Wouldn't you say that's "killing" stars?

Well one compromise could be you let everyone compete the short but only let X per country move on to the free regardless of placements.

 

[zanadude]

Under the stupid plan suggested by so many to flood Worlds with big-country skaters, a skater like Julian, a skater like Brendan, would never get a chance. Wouldn't you say that's "killing" stars?

He just said, in the part that you chose not to quote, that these skaters already have plenty of chances to shine. You got to see the likes of Michaela Du Toit (great job you're doing there, Mr. Orser) flopping all over the ice at 4CC. Is it really in the sport's best interest to put their needs above those of the best skaters in the world at the World Championships?

 

[venx]

I think granting 4th spot for Russia in Ladies category would be minor and rightful modification, pleasing most of the fs community and bringing some sense of justice. :thumbsup:

 

[el henry]

He just said, in the part that you chose not to quote, that these skaters already have plenty of chances to shine. You got to see the likes of Michaela Du Toit (great job you're doing there, Mr. Orser) flopping all over the ice at 4CC. Is it really in the sport's best interest to put their needs above those of the best skaters in the world at the World Championships?

Yes.

 

[shiroKJ]

I think granting 4th spot for Russia in Ladies category would be minor and rightful modification, pleasing most of the fs community and bringing some sense of justice. :thumbsup:

Russia is not the first nor will it be the last country who's flooded with very talented skaters. It comes in waves, and other countries were not given the same exception why should Russia get it now?

 

[andromache]

This is a ridiculous argument that crops up time and time again, and really only in regards to the Russian ladies. The Russian ladies are the best because their country has the best program for making their ladies successful. They have resources to succeed that ladies around the world probably envy. But more resources and a better program means more competition, and that's just how it is. The girls who go to Worlds are the ones who have made the best use of what their country has given them.

Meanwhile, skaters from non-skating countries probably have very little to work with, support-wise, and they make the most of that. Skaters from countries with crappier systems/poorer programs should still get to skate at Worlds, because it's good for them and good for making the sport just a little more relevant in their country. Those years when Javier was placing in the 30s at Worlds...what if instead of Javi getting to go to Worlds and skate poorly, those spots had been given to some Russian or American or Japanese men instead?

Sorry, but Grand Prix series is for skaters to get spots and make it to the final regardless of what country they are from. You have a good world ranking and you get GP spots.

World Championships is for THE WORLD.

(Sometimes I just read Javi's Wikipedia page for forum argument reasons like this and I just want to CRY because this guy did not make a name for himself as a little preteen or teenage prodigy, he did not come from a skating country, he received no federation support, he had abysmal results on the JGP and at Junior Worlds and at Europeans and at senior Worlds for years and years, but my god he improved EVERY YEAR. At his first worlds in 2007, he placed 35th. Ten years later, he will be defending his Worlds title for the SECOND TIME!!! No one else has a career like this! So when people crap on the number of "bad" skaters from non-skating countries at JGP events and Europeans and at Worlds, I just get so mad because LOOK AT WHAT JAVIER DID.

I think I'm becoming a bit of an uber. I don't even love his skating all that much. But man, Javier the human being just slays me.)

Michaela Du Toit, who OP feels the need to be nasty about, could be the next Javier Fernandez! And even if she's not, someone else will be.

ETA: Look at this future world champion!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm surprised people can only see one side of the argument as being reasonable. I certainly see both sides but I'm just a wee bit more preferring to see the absolute best competitors to be at the championship that determines the best in the World on a given year. I really don't think there is a right or wrong and having a preference is hardly stupid or even being short sided IMO.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I also think 4CC, Euros, JGP, Olympics provide good .....maybe even the best opportunity.....to grow the sport. I guess it's a matter of opponion though and not something we can prove outright.

 

[4everchan]

nice post andromache....

also, just in case I haven't mentioned it clearly enough, the sport needs representation globally not just in 2 or 3 strong countries if it remains eligible as an Olympic sport...
If ever a discipline lost its olympic status, national federation would simply stop funding it and it would die... I am thinking about ice dance here but then look at pairs, it is very exciting to see new countries developing young pairs, especially in Australia and Asia.

 

[4everchan]

I'm surprised people can only see one side of the argument as being reasonable. I certainly see both sides but I'm just a wee bit more preferring to see the absolute best competitors to be at the championship that determines the best in the World on a given year. I really don't think there is a right or wrong and having a preference is hardly stupid or even being short sided IMO.

i think the best in the world needs to be the best in their own country...

 

[karne]

I'm surprised people can only see one side of the argument as being reasonable. I certainly see both sides but I'm just a wee bit more preferring to see the absolute best competitors to be at the championship that determines the best in the World on a given year. I really don't think there is a right or wrong and having a preference is hardly stupid or even being short sided IMO.

You can't see it because you are from a big skating country and like skaters from big skating countries. Your privilege blinds your worldview, like so many others from big skating countries who show such disgusting disrespect to the hard-working little country skaters, as the OP did.

 

[venx]

Meanwhile, skaters from non-skating countries probably have very little to work with, support-wise, and they make the most of that. Skaters from countries with crappier systems/poorer programs should still get to skate at Worlds, because it's good for them and good for making the sport just a little more relevant in their country. Those years when Javier was placing in the 30s at Worlds...what if instead of Javi getting to go to Worlds and skate poorly, those spots had been given to some Russian or American or Japanese men instead?

What granting 4th spot for Russia in Ladies category has to do with all of above?