2017 Worlds Free Dance

[bramweld]

Oh, come on!!! Why do you think B/S didn't deserve the marks and the place (5th overall) they got?
C/L are dull and average skaters
C/B and H/D had visible mistake, and we all know that this is serious for ice dance.
And to be honest, if Russia would have tried to influence this one, more than sure they would have 3 spots now.... so what's the logic?
My overall impression coincides with the judging here: there are 2 teams in front of the others, and the rest of the field with small qualitative difference between them, depending on the day .

Please stop saying this. It may be their SD choreography that's a bit dull this year but they are no longer average skaters. Their FD got one of the more impressive ovations at both EC and WC, you don't do that with average skating. Saying this at every opportunity you get does not make it true and I'm not even an C/L uber. Their improvement in basic skating skills was obvious right off the bat from Nebelhorn this year.

 

[alain06fr]

Anything you wanted to know about Gaby and Guillaume and their programs?
Enjoy this very long (20 minutes) and very interesting interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXIfHY9pD7M

 

[Ares]

I'm still not over H/D twizzle disaster. This is the 3rd time I can remember Zach making an error cause he angles his skate down on the toe pick. I don't understand why he does this. The bronze was yours. Siiiigghhhhh. The Tyra "we were all rooting for you" gif is so appropriate for this.

I've come across someone suggesting that they should have moved Twizzle Sequences to earlier part of the program earlier this season to avoid this sort of mistake Many teams start from Twizzle Sequence and it works well for them.

 

[bramweld]

This statement makes zero sense. If Russia had any hold over the judges at Worlds, or the tech panel for that matter, they'd have put their teams way up the standings in the SD already, especially B/S, who'd need to stay in the top five to guarantee a chance at advancing more. Their FD didn't score anything over what they've scored three or four times this season, and I don't see a reason to cry lobbying or cheating. After a while it starts to smell like 'not your favorites won and you don't like it'. Get over it.

This statement makes mucho sense. If you listen to interviews from Anna and Luca and watch the rolled eyes of Andrew Poje at Worlds this year, you know people are manipulating the scoring system. But in the end I laugh, because objectively B/S were only good enough for 7th place. Their fifth place was a gift from the USA. This false sense of bravado will do them no real good come next season. I mean Bobrova can barely control her extension in lifts. Let me not even begin on her positions in spins in comparison to Anna. I mean, seriously?

 

[Barb]

I've come across someone suggesting that they should have moved Twizzle Sequences to earlier part of the program earlier this season to avoid this sort of mistake Many teams start from Twizzle Sequence and it works well for them.

Madison said they were trying to impress the judges, entering the twizzles with high speed, they knew this is/was risky. Twizzles earlier can to get high score but the judges know it is more difficult to do it later. If they were trying impress to the judges, I think it was part of the strategy.

 

[madison]

Please stop saying this. It may be their SD choreography that's a bit dull this year but they are no longer average skaters. Their FD got one of the more impressive ovations at both EC and WC, you don't do that with average skating. Saying this at every opportunity you get does not make it true and I'm not even an C/L uber. Their improvement in basic skating skills was obvious right off the bat from Nebelhorn this year.

For me, at least, it's true. I don't find anything interesting and captivating in them: programs, costumes, innovation, emotions, nothing...

 

[bramweld]

For me, at least, it's true. I don't find anything interesting and captivating in them: programs, costumes, innovation, emotions, nothing...

Okay. Its good when peeps can agree to disagree..

 

[coldblueeyes]

This statement makes mucho sense. If you listen to interviews from Anna and Luca and watch the rolled eyes of Andrew Poje at Worlds this year, you know people are manipulating the scoring system. But in the end I laugh, because objectively B/S were only good enough for 7th place. Their fifth place was a gift from the USA. This false sense of bravado will do them no real good come next season. I mean Bobrova can barely control her extension in lifts. Let me not even begin on her positions in spins in comparison to Anna. I mean, seriously?

Some other very pointed comments from the italians were aimed at Montreal. Also, false sense of bravado? Zhulin being Zhulin. Russians being russians, same old same old. Bestemianova believes S/B are the second coming of Jesus, they have to defend their stars, I guess. I can't even give the skaters much margin for comments, after all the Shibs said they thought their scores were not right in the SD, when both American teams placed over them. So where is the manipulation of the system? As you said, B/S would only move up to seventh if the Americans hadn't gifted them two places, that's hardly a manipulation.

But as some people said, in Euros B/S supposedly competed much better, and were placed below the italians, but I dind't see this cry about manipulation carrying out for so long.

 

[bramweld]

Some other very pointed comments from the italians were aimed at Montreal. Also, false sense of bravado? Zhulin being Zhulin. Russians being russians, same old same old. Bestemianova believes S/B are the second coming of Jesus, they have to defend their stars, I guess. I can't even give the skaters much margin for comments, after all the Shibs said they thought their scores were not right in the SD, when both American teams placed over them. So where is the manipulation of the system? As you said, B/S would only move up to seventh if the Americans hadn't gifted them two places, that's hardly a manipulation.

But as some people said, in Euros B/S supposedly competed much better, and were placed below the italians, but I dind't see this cry about manipulation carrying out for so long.

Because, even with their twizzle error, C/L are still better than B/S, every day and especially on Sundays, with that half baked, all sorts of ridiculous FD. If their vehicle this year was Crazy, maybe I could sympathize, but puhlease its this incongruous nonsense, IMHO, of course

 

[reneerose]

This statement makes zero sense. If Russia had any hold over the judges at Worlds, or the tech panel for that matter, they'd have put their teams way up the standings in the SD already, especially B/S, who'd need to stay in the top five to guarantee a chance at advancing more. Their FD didn't score anything over what they've scored three or four times this season, and I don't see a reason to cry lobbying or cheating. After a while it starts to smell like 'not your favorites won and you don't like it'. Get over it.

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If any country is trying to game the system to put their own skaters ahead, would they really be blatantly obvious about it? With the current scoring system, the scores can be subtly adjusted by a few points here and there. Looking at scorings across all the disciplines---especially, post competition, you can see there is still country/nation bias (which honestly will never be completely eliminated). The current scoring system helps, but there still isn't perfect objectivity in scoring and there never will be.

 

[keasus]

Lol. Bestemianova as deluded as always She also insinuated that Stepanova / Bukin should win medals at the Europeans IIRC.

The blog Skating Gossips had an article a few weeks ago in which she stated that S/B were the best ice dancers and were not appreciated I know she danced with Bukhin Senior (I still have nightmares about their choreo, skating, and costumes), but she is taking misplaced loyalty to the point of total delusion.

 

[bramweld]

The blog Skating Gossips had an article a few weeks ago in which she stated that S/B were the best ice dancers and were not appreciated I know she danced with Bukhin Senior (I still have nightmares about their choreo, skating, and costumes), but she is taking misplaced loyalty to the point of total delusion.

Well, bless grandma's heart.

Edit: Given what we saw at this years world's anything could happen, next season they could just as easily switch places with B/S

 

[coldblueeyes]

Because, even with their twizzle error, C/L are still better than B/S, every day and especially on Sundays, with that half baked, all sorts of ridiculous FD. If their vehicle this year was Crazy, maybe I could sympathize, but puhlease its this incongruous nonsense, IMHO, of course

Right, I guess. At least they managed to get to the top 5 at Worlds with their incongruous nonsense. It's better than any russian team managed to do the entire quad, so I take it.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Actually it makes a lot of sense. If any country is trying to game the system to put their own skaters ahead, would they really be blatantly obvious about it? With the current scoring system, the scores can be subtly adjusted by a few points here and there. Looking at scorings across all the disciplines---especially, post competition, you can see there is still country/nation bias (which honestly will never be completely eliminated). The current scoring system helps, but there still isn't perfect objectivity in scoring and there never will be.

You have to decide which one you're going to use because it's either manipulation by one country, or just national/friendly bias. Are they different? Hell yes. If this was a complete manipulation of the system, Russia would have managed to get three spots to the Olympics and a bronze medal - which would actually be the same thing, because had B/S been really pushed to the podium Russia would get two for the price of one (S/B at tenth, B/S at third would add up to 13, the magic number).

Of course, they got a small medal, but that's literally small potatoes in this. I said it doesn't make sense because putting a couple in the top five before two teams fell down the stands is nothing. Had C/B and H/D competed well they would have placed well above B/S, who would end up at seventh place, just above the italians by a very small margin - as some people commented during the competition, a mathematical margin. No one would be talking about manipulation. That's why it doesn't make sense, simple as that.

 

[viennaskater]

I think that the Russian Fed should promote Tiff and John: they have great skating skills, connection and some freshness and they look different among the other Russian teams. Now much will depend on Zhulin what programs he'll give them.

??? Tiff and John are terrible. Saw them at Ondrej Nepela and wondered what on earth they were doing there.

 

[viennaskater]

I have loved Piper and Paul all season mostly for their SD. So glad that they have had a beautiful WC experience. And many more :luv17::dance2:

Love them to bits BUT I prefer them when they do more avant-garde stuff. Superb as this tango is, it looks too 'safe' for them.

 

[viennaskater]

116 for THAT? P/C should retire. They have 0 chanse to win the Olympics. 0

Are you on drugs?

 

[gmyers]

For Russia ice dance this worlds was a horrible catastrophe that resulted in lack of max spots in ice dance for the first time ever and some are still complaining they did too well! Get a grip! They can't even lose badly enough now! People used to complain about them winning and now they can't even lose badly enough! I don't get what is going on! 8th and 10th "too high" "massive conspiracy and judging corruption"! No medal "massive conspiracy judging corruption!" Two spots is too much!

 

[Tallorder]

Heard from a non-US coach who returned from the event that the one point extended lift deduction for the Shibutani's rotational spin lift may not have been a correctly issued penalty. Seems could have been due to an artifact of the method used by the technical panel and referee to measure lift duration. The time from when Maia leaves the ice to when she resumes contact, was in fact within the 7 second limit. Officiating obviously involves judgment calls. Ironic that this is actually a rare instance in figure skating where a stop watch is involved.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Heard from a non-US coach who returned from the event that the one point extended lift deduction for the Shibutani's rotational spin lift may not have been a correctly issued penalty. Seems could have been due to an artifact of the method used by the technical panel and referee to measure lift duration. The time from when Maia leaves the ice to when she resumes contact, was in fact within the 7 second limit. Officiating obviously involves judgment calls. Ironic that this is actually a rare instance in figure skating where a stop watch is involved.

Well, there were some very interesting calls about time at this Worlds, so I wouldn't be too pressed to discuss them. In the end they got to the best place they could, even if it was because two other teams made mistakes. Now they have to make peace with it and move on.