Does a piece of music 'belong' to a favourite skater?

[skatesofgold]

Agreed. Every time I hear the first notes I look around for Torvill and Dean.

Yeah, and it's like you can't use YouTube views to determine which is more iconic because the 1980s were a different time. It's not an accurate assessment of popularity or influence.

 

[el henry]

I did, and I don't think of her at all, and to be honest (and not knocking the girl) neither would most people, even skating fans. This is not about the most brilliant performance of a piece, but about a piece that is in the popular consciousness so entangled with one performer and their take on it that anyone else seems to be 'copying'. Bolero is not, it appears, definitively such a piece: it was for many years, now, at least to Russian skating fans if not everyone else, it has another definitive interpretation.

This also illustrates the fact that almost no pieces of music are that iconic to one performer no matter how brilliant. I think I have my answer.

Since I agree so much, I am going to experiment and see if I can attach a GIF:

It didn't work

So, jumping off, how do I get my own dancing to attach? And make it twice as large as any other post?

 

[Mathman]

LOL Riverdance is definitely bourne and kraatz.

I am just joking around... I certainly don't think music belongs to skaters ...

I have a somewhat different take about what we mean by saying that a figure skater "owns" a oiece of music. You don't own a piece of music just because you skated well when that music was playing. Or even that you skated better than anyone else has to that particular music.

Bourne and Kraatz can legitimately claim Riverdance as their skating music because they were the first skaters if prominance who had the vision to recognize the bizarre possibility that there is something in Irish step dancing that can be successfully translated into the figure skating idiom.

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. Now we have smart phones that are better. That doesn't diminish Bell's pivital role.

 

[el henry]

For what it’s worth, Rohene Ward used Bourne and Kraatz to sell Kori and Jason on Riverdance. Kori’s initial reaction to the Riverdance suggestion was, isn’t that too corny, and Rohene answered, not if it is done right and showed her Bourne and Kraatz.

(can’t find the link, but I swear I am not making this up)

Of course, for me, Jason is the Riverdance to end all Riverdances, but of course he doesn’t “own” it.

 

[Mathman]

To be fair, I wasn't born when John Curry was competing!

You know who had superb edge control and exquisite carriage? Ulrich Salchow. There is still archived footage available (a little oin the grainy side).

You can't really directly compare Curry and Zagitova, because for most of their programmes, they used completely different pieces of music. admiration of how having all those jumps in the 2nd half fitted in so well with the music. And that is why I give Zagitova a slight edge over Curry to be my favourite "Don Quixote". Because, for me anyway, the way that all of the music that was used in her programme was interpreted was spot on.

Oh, and the dress!

You've got me on the dress part, not that Medvedeva was chopped liver.

But I do think that the performances of Curry and Zagitova can be compared. This is ballet music. A successful interpretation should honor the forms and traditions of ballet. John Curry was a ballet- and contemporary-dancer. In fact, he moved to the United States and went to a new coach precisely because his adviors pointed out, John, you've got to tone down the ballet if you ever want to win an Olympic medal in ice skating.

In the case of Zagitova, her victory reflected, in the main, the genius of Eteri Tutberidze. Whatever the ISU throws at her, Tutberidze will find a way to game the system to the advantage of her skaters. (For U.S. football fans, she is figure skating's answer to Bill Belechick, coach of the Boston Patriots. The Tom Bradys may come and go, but the bg wheel keeps on turning. )

 

[4everchan]

I have a somewhat different take about what we mean by saying that a figure skater "owns" a oiece of music. You don't own a piece of music just because you skated well when that music was playing. Or even that you skated better than anyone else has to that particular music.

Bourne and Kraatz can legitimately claim Riverdance as their skating music because they were the first skaters if prominance who had the vision to recognize the bizarre possibility that there is something in Irish step dancing that can be successfully translated into the figure skating idiom.

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. Now we have smart phones that are better. That doesn't diminish Bell's pivital role.

I don't disagree with anything you said... I was just pointing out to those talking about Rika Hongo's or even Jason Brown's Riverdance that one iconic program preceding it... I could even add that what made it so special was that it was indeed a dance program which put the Irish dancing forward.

I don't believe that music is owned by anyone... So that's it.

 

[4everchan]

For what it’s worth, Rohene Ward used Bourne and Kraatz to sell Kori and Jason on Riverdance. Kori’s initial reaction to the Riverdance suggestion was, isn’t that too corny, and Rohene answered, not if it is done right and showed her Bourne and Kraatz.

(can’t find the link, but I swear I am not making this up)

Of course, for me, Jason is the Riverdance to end all Riverdances, but of course he doesn’t “own” it.

Link needed

 

[el henry]

Link needed

I am gifting you the link. I overstated the case, Rohene said "a couple of ice dance teams", not B/K by name.

For Skater Jason Brown, a Disciplined Approach Yields Joy on Ice (Published 2014)

The figure skater Brown and his team spent countless hours creating and perfecting a program that landed him an Olympic berth.

www.nytimes.com

To me, this is a great article even if you don't care about Jason, Rohene, or Kori, for the in-depth discussion of how a program is choreographed. An excerpt:

After hearing “Reel Around the Sun,” the flute-punctuated opening number, Brown was reeling at the up-tempo, cardiovascular challenge it would present on skates.
“I was like, ‘Rohene, you are crazy, I cannot pull this off,' ” Brown said.
Ward’s response was immediate, Brown said: “He looked me in the eye and said, ‘Jason, this is something you’ve never done before, and that’s what the Olympic year is all about.' ”

 

[Mathman]

For what it’s worth, Rohene Ward used Bourne and Kraatz to sell Kori and Jason on Riverdance. Kori’s initial reaction to the Riverdance suggestion was, isn’t that too corny, and Rohene answered, not if it is done right and showed her Bourne and Kraatz.

... Of course, for me, Jason is the Riverdance to end all Riverdances, but of course he doesn’t “own” it.

Maybe we could say that Jason took Bourne and Kraatz' creation and knocked it out of the park. Even as Kamila Valieva gave a moving interpretation of the Torvill and Dean music.

Here's Bourne and Kraatz:

[4K60P] Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz 1998 Nagano Olympics - FD "Riverdance"

Shae-Lynn Bourne, Victor Kraatz / Ше-Линн Бурн, Виктор Краатц / シェイ＝リーン・ボーン, ヴィクター・クラーツ1988 Nagano Winter Olympic Games Ice Dancing, Free Danceзимние Олимпий...

www.youtube.com

 

[Zora]

Yagudin's Winter program. To me, it's still the short program after all these years, if I had to show someone what figure skating is, I would still pick this program. And I can't remember anyone who tried to skate to this music again in a competitive program.

 

[DancingCactus]

And "most people found it garish" as well as "that includes non-skating fans" are simply and objectively wrong.

If you quote me, please quote me correctly. I wrote "most people I know" and the non-skating fans are people I know personally. So, I was talking from my personal experience with people I've actually met in offline life.

About "Winter": The step sequence certainly was out of this world and I still love it - although Yagudin seems to have turned in quite a bigot But I can't conjure up the music in my mind at all at the moment

 

[Mathman]

Yagudin's Winter program. To me, it's still the short program after all these years, if I had to show someone what figure skating is, I would still pick this program. And I can't remember anyone who tried to skate to this music again in a competitive program.

For sure the iconic short program of all time. As for as I know no one has dared to skate to this group siince.

The strange thing is that the musical genre is the Beethoven-with-a-techno-beat craze that was briefly popular around then. "Bond" -- the artists, presumeably short for "Bod Girls" -- were recruited and put together because they were sexy ladies who could play musical instruments.

Bond- Winter

Bond- Winter (Album Play)

www.youtube.com

I would not say, though, that Yagudin owns Vivaldi's Four Seasons.

 

[Mathman]

About "Winter": The step sequence certainly was out of this world and I still love it...

In terms of "legacy" and influence on the sport, when Yagudin did his step sequence everybody and their mama (including Michelle Kwan) rushed to the choreographer Morosov and begged him to give them a "Morosov step sequence." Skating purists might object that this toe-tappy dancing on your toe pick is not really what figure skating should dtrive for, but it certainly was entertaining as all get-out.

 

[elbkup]

Link needed

For Skater Jason Brown, a Disciplined Approach Yields Joy on Ice (Published 2014)

The figure skater Brown and his team spent countless hours creating and perfecting a program that landed him an Olympic berth.

www.nytimes.com

 

[4everchan]

I would not say, though, that Yagudin owns Vivaldi's Four Seasons.

Ditto. Many skaters had iconic performances to 4 seasons.




Also noteworthy : Shoma Uno
and how not to mention Surya Bonaly... She was injured at the 98 games and couldn't do the lutz and had some mistakes, even an early fall... but who doesn't remember the iconic choreography and her backflip

I also loved it done in ice dance by Weaver and Poje, here is their winning GPF performance. Those lifts !!!!

 

[4everchan]

For Skater Jason Brown, a Disciplined Approach Yields Joy on Ice (Published 2014)

The figure skater Brown and his team spent countless hours creating and perfecting a program that landed him an Olympic berth.

www.nytimes.com

thank you. @el henry had provided... and to clarify, the link request was some sort of an "inside" joke coming from another thread. I trust @el henry would not provide dubious info on Jason.

 

[elbkup]

It’s natural to fix a piece of music to an adored performance and in that sense “owns” the piece.. in one’s mind and heart… I must admit to enjoying a challenger when someone else skates to music I identified with another skater because I want to see the differences…
A very recent example just presented itself at least for me in the Junior RD performance of Neset/Markelov at Lake Placid to Still Lovin’ You by the Scorpions.. I could not wait yo see how it stood up to Lang/Tchernycshev’s 2003 FD performance.. it stood up very well and I am thrilled!

Leah Neset / Artem Markelov 2023 Lake Placid Itl Rhythm Dance

Thumbnail photo credit to ice-dance.comScore: 63.99

youtu.be

N. LANG & P. TCHERNYSHEV - 2003 US NATIONALS - FD

NAOMI LANG & PETER TCHERNYSHEV - 2003 US NATIONALS - FREE DANCE

youtu.be

 

[elbkup]

Ditto. Many skaters had iconic performances to 4 seasons.




Also noteworthy : Shoma Uno
and how not to mention Surya Bonaly... She was injured at the 98 games and couldn't do the lutz and had some mistakes, even an early fall... but who doesn't remember the iconic choreography and her backflip

I also loved it done in ice dance by Weaver and Poje, here is their winning GPF performance. Those lifts !!!!

A warhorse I love!!

 

[Rina RUS]

For sure the iconic short program of all time. As for as I know no one has dared to skate to this group siince.

The strange thing is that the musical genre is the Beethoven-with-a-techno-beat craze that was briefly popular around then. "Bond" -- the artists, presumeably short for "Bod Girls" -- were recruited and put together because they were sexy ladies who could play musical instruments.

Bond- Winter

Bond- Winter (Album Play)

www.youtube.com

I would not say, though, that Yagudin owns Vivaldi's Four Seasons.

Sorry, I don’t understand why you posted this “Winter” by “Bond”? (what it has to do with Yagudin, if he skated to “Wintersun” by “Bond”?)

Bond - Wintersun (official video)

Want to keep in touch? Sign up to our monthly newsletter: https://deccaclassics.lnk.to/NewsletterIDOfficial video for Bond's Wintersun, from their album Born...

www.youtube.com

 

[Mathman]

^ Oh. Thank you. I guess the music sounded similar to me.