Does a piece of music 'belong' to a favourite skater? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Does a piece of music 'belong' to a favourite skater?

labgoat

Working on Costumes contest & REWATCHES
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Sorry, I don’t understand why you posted this “Winter” by “Bond”? (what it has to do with Yagudin, if he skated to “Wintersun” by “Bond”?)
The link to Yagudin’s version is in post 35
 

TallyT

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I don’t mean to say that he is perfect,

I personally think he is one of those sports stars (artists, actors, musicians, whatever) who may be a truly awful person but said awfulness doesn't stop him being great at what he does and what he projects. And I rather do love his Winter.
 

4everchan

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synesthesia

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I agree that no music "belongs" to any skater per se, but that some pieces are so closely associated with a particular skater or team that any subsequent version pales in comparison. In many cases, it is the first time a piece of music has been skated to, at least at elite level, (I think that sentimental reasons also play a role, as one often remembers "firsts" most fondly) and has a cultural and/or personal connection to the skater(s). Some examples not yet mentioned:


  • Denis Ten – S.O.S. d’un terrien en détresse, sung by Dimash (https://youtu.be/dYrb8QOgU2I?t=25):

    Due to the friendship between Denis and Dimash and the fact that Dimash later commemorated Denis with it in his concerts, to me this version (not the song itself *) “belongs” to Denis. Whenever I listen to it, I inevitably think of him. 💔 Of course many skaters have since performed to Dimash’s version, but it never feels quite right to me.


  • Denis Ten – Warriors of Kazakhstan (Tolgau/ Ер Тұран) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us3lnvuanI8):

    Honoring his native country and performing in a costume inspired by traditional Kazakh clothing, this was one of Denis’ most memorable programs to me. It would take another skater with Kazakh roots to perform it as authentically and intensely as he did – as of now I can’t think of anyone, who could do it justice. Since Kazakh figure skating is currently on the rise thanks to the Denis Ten Figure Skating Academy, this could change in the future.


  • Daisuke Takahashi – Eye (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuNlFsrMT4):

    He was the first skater to choose this relatively unusual piece (by figure skating standards) after having fallen in love with it (I only know of two other skaters attempting it afterwards). The artist, Japanese accordionist Coba, later performed it live with Daisuke (in 2014) and they struck up a friendly relationship. With its two iconic step sequences and the pizzazz with which Dai performed the program, it was also, in my humble opinion, the most memorable SP of the Vancouver Olympics men's competition.

  • Kana Muramoto & Daisuke Takahashi – Sōran Bushi/Koto (https://youtu.be/WGJBQ3yDMLI?t=583):

    Again the first time any high level skater chose to skate to Sōran Bushi (the modernized version by half Japanese/half French artist Maia Barou was chosen by Kana), even though it is such a well-known standard in Japan, a sea shanty about the life of the herring fishermen of Hokkaidō. Another reason for choosing it was that Kana and Dai were both born under the zodiac sign of Pisces (the Pisces symbol is also depicted on their official banners). Choreographer Koyo Yanai incorporated various aspects of Japanese culture into the choreography, like kabuki movements and Ukiyo-e imagery, and the lift resembles a fisherman catching a fish. The costumes are inspired by traditional Japanese workwear, but with a modern "street style" twist (according to designer Taketoshi Hara). So much thought and creativity has gone into every aspect of this program that for me it is a work of art (harkening back to the question if competitive skating can be art.) It’s hard to imagine that anyone will come up with a more iconic program to the same music.


I am sure there are many more examples like the ones above that I can’t think of off the top of my head or am unfamiliar with.



* Does anyone know, if anyone apart from Weaver/Poje has ever skated to the original version of S.O.S., sung by Daniel Balavoine or any of the many covers other than the one by Dimash?
 

4everchan

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Country
Martinique
I agree that no music "belongs" to any skater per se, but that some pieces are so closely associated with a particular skater or team that any subsequent version pales in comparison. In many cases, it is the first time a piece of music has been skated to, at least at elite level, (I think that sentimental reasons also play a role, as one often remembers "firsts" most fondly) and has a cultural and/or personal connection to the skater(s). Some examples not yet mentioned:


  • Denis Ten – S.O.S. d’un terrien en détresse, sung by Dimash (https://youtu.be/dYrb8QOgU2I?t=25):

    Due to the friendship between Denis and Dimash and the fact that Dimash later commemorated Denis with it in his concerts, to me this version (not the song itself *) “belongs” to Denis. Whenever I listen to it, I inevitably think of him. 💔 Of course many skaters have since performed to Dimash’s version, but it never feels quite right to me.


  • Denis Ten – Warriors of Kazakhstan (Tolgau/ Ер Тұран) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us3lnvuanI8):

    Honoring his native country and performing in a costume inspired by traditional Kazakh clothing, this was one of Denis’ most memorable programs to me. It would take another skater with Kazakh roots to perform it as authentically and intensely as he did – as of now I can’t think of anyone, who could do it justice. Since Kazakh figure skating is currently on the rise thanks to the Denis Ten Figure Skating Academy, this could change in the future.


  • Daisuke Takahashi – Eye (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuNlFsrMT4):

    He was the first skater to choose this relatively unusual piece (by figure skating standards) after having fallen in love with it (I only know of two other skaters attempting it afterwards). The artist, Japanese accordionist Coba, later performed it live with Daisuke (in 2014) and they struck up a friendly relationship. With its two iconic step sequences and the pizzazz with which Dai performed the program, it was also, in my humble opinion, the most memorable SP of the Vancouver Olympics men's competition.

  • Kana Muramoto & Daisuke Takahashi – Sōran Bushi/Koto (https://youtu.be/WGJBQ3yDMLI?t=583):

    Again the first time any high level skater chose to skate to Sōran Bushi (the modernized version by half Japanese/half French artist Maia Barou was chosen by Kana), even though it is such a well-known standard in Japan, a sea shanty about the life of the herring fishermen of Hokkaidō. Another reason for choosing it was that Kana and Dai were both born under the zodiac sign of Pisces (the Pisces symbol is also depicted on their official banners). Choreographer Koyo Yanai incorporated various aspects of Japanese culture into the choreography, like kabuki movements and Ukiyo-e imagery, and the lift resembles a fisherman catching a fish. The costumes are inspired by traditional Japanese workwear, but with a modern "street style" twist (according to designer Taketoshi Hara). So much thought and creativity has gone into every aspect of this program that for me it is a work of art (harkening back to the question if competitive skating can be art.) It’s hard to imagine that anyone will come up with a more iconic program to the same music.


I am sure there are many more examples like the ones above that I can’t think of off the top of my head or am unfamiliar with.



* Does anyone know, if anyone has ever skated to the original version of S.O.S., sung by Daniel Balavoine or any of the many covers other than the one by Dimash?
Weaver and Poje
In this clip, Belavoine is tagged ... another who died too young.. However, I have to say.. I am not sure who is singing... the French doesn't sound like Dimash... Though I like him a lot, his diction ain't quite there... and the voice doesn't sound like Belavoine...

ETA WIKI says that Los Angeles : The Voices are the performers.




I am dropping this article in French as well... tribute to Denis... Gosh I adored him.
 
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Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
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Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
I agree that no music "belongs" to any skater per se, but that some pieces are so closely associated with a particular skater or team that any subsequent version pales in comparison. In many cases, it is the first time a piece of music has been skated to, at least at elite level, (I think that sentimental reasons also play a role, as one often remembers "firsts" most fondly) and has a cultural and/or personal connection to the skater(s). Some examples not yet mentioned:


  • Denis Ten – S.O.S. d’un terrien en détresse, sung by Dimash (https://youtu.be/dYrb8QOgU2I?t=25):

    Due to the friendship between Denis and Dimash and the fact that Dimash later commemorated Denis with it in his concerts, to me this version (not the song itself *) “belongs” to Denis. Whenever I listen to it, I inevitably think of him. 💔 Of course many skaters have since performed to Dimash’s version, but it never feels quite right to me.


  • Denis Ten – Warriors of Kazakhstan (Tolgau/ Ер Тұран) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us3lnvuanI8):

    Honoring his native country and performing in a costume inspired by traditional Kazakh clothing, this was one of Denis’ most memorable programs to me. It would take another skater with Kazakh roots to perform it as authentically and intensely as he did – as of now I can’t think of anyone, who could do it justice. Since Kazakh figure skating is currently on the rise thanks to the Denis Ten Figure Skating Academy, this could change in the future.


  • Daisuke Takahashi – Eye (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuNlFsrMT4):

    He was the first skater to choose this relatively unusual piece (by figure skating standards) after having fallen in love with it (I only know of two other skaters attempting it afterwards). The artist, Japanese accordionist Coba, later performed it live with Daisuke (in 2014) and they struck up a friendly relationship. With its two iconic step sequences and the pizzazz with which Dai performed the program, it was also, in my humble opinion, the most memorable SP of the Vancouver Olympics men's competition.

  • Kana Muramoto & Daisuke Takahashi – Sōran Bushi/Koto (https://youtu.be/WGJBQ3yDMLI?t=583):

    Again the first time any high level skater chose to skate to Sōran Bushi (the modernized version by half Japanese/half French artist Maia Barou was chosen by Kana), even though it is such a well-known standard in Japan, a sea shanty about the life of the herring fishermen of Hokkaidō. Another reason for choosing it was that Kana and Dai were both born under the zodiac sign of Pisces (the Pisces symbol is also depicted on their official banners). Choreographer Koyo Yanai incorporated various aspects of Japanese culture into the choreography, like kabuki movements and Ukiyo-e imagery, and the lift resembles a fisherman catching a fish. The costumes are inspired by traditional Japanese workwear, but with a modern "street style" twist (according to designer Taketoshi Hara). So much thought and creativity has gone into every aspect of this program that for me it is a work of art (harkening back to the question if competitive skating can be art.) It’s hard to imagine that anyone will come up with a more iconic program to the same music.


I am sure there are many more examples like the ones above that I can’t think of off the top of my head or am unfamiliar with.



* Does anyone know, if anyone apart from Weaver/Poje has ever skated to the original version of S.O.S., sung by Daniel Balavoine or any of the many covers other than the one by Dimash?
I love all these examples. Also, I miss Denis Ten 😭
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Was Dai also the first one to bring Blues for Klook? It is also an iconic program that led to many other versions...
This is the earliest use in figure skating that I'm aware of:

And the earliest I know of in men's singles:
 

4everchan

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This is the earliest use in figure skating that I'm aware of:

And the earliest I know of in men's singles:
Now that you show it... I remember Usova-Zhulin's... but not Vlascenko's. Though I do remember him. So whose is more iconic then? ;)
 

TallyT

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Now that you show it... I remember Usova-Zhulin's... but not Vlascenko's. Though I do remember him. So whose is more iconic then? ;)
The first name that comes to my mind is Takahashi, but Sui/Han are very close behind (possibly only because I am a bigger fan of them) so... doesn't 'belong' asimage in one overshadowing . His version is probably the most iconic.
 

4everchan

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I don't think I can answer for you or you can answer for me. There isn't a "right" answer. Different fans have different experiences of which programs make a strong and memorable impression on them.
I agree... I guess I'd give my vote to Takahashi.... I just remembered that Liam Firus had superb choreo and performance on his version.. but not great success with the jumps.
 

boysoprano

Rinkside
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Sep 26, 2019
Bolero by Torvill and Dean at the time was the closest thing figure skating has ever got to Anna Pavlova's Dying swan- a piece of dance that stood alone from a competitive context which was performed to crowds around the world, and which people clamoured to see.

It was the culmination of four years of T and D as competitors revolutionising Ice dance and figure skating in general. Barely a programme is created today that in its conceptualisation does not go back to Torvill and Dean.

It is less impactful today because the recordings available lack close shots which are a standard in ice dance broadcasts, and the facial expressions are barely discernible, in comparison to recently filmed programmes.

If you want to understand its significance of the time, the best example of contemporary commentary is peggy Flemings introduction of them at the 1984 Olympics


Does the music "belong" to them? Well, as the inverted commas imply in the original posters question- yes but not really.

I would say for example Bejart's version of Bolero is equally as iconic. And sylvie guillem's performance on new years eve in japan as the countdown to midnight occurred, which was her farewell performance, was layers of iconicism upon layers of iconicism.

 
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CaroLiza_fan

MINIOL ALATMI REKRIS. EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA.
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ETA WIKI says that Los Angeles : The Voices are the performers.

You have to be careful of Wikipedia, though. I am currently changing the format used for the "Programmes" section of my Fan Fests, and as I go along I am checking ISU Bios and Wikipedia to see if there were any mistakes.

For one partnership, I did spot a mistake that could mean that I had the wrong programme listed for a season (I had put the wrong year down for a performance in my video list). So, since they didn't have an ISU Bio back then and the YouTube video has since been removed, I went onto WIkipedia to check what it said their programme was for that season. And I discovered that the same mistake was on Wikipedia... because a Wikipedia editor who is also a GS member had used my Original Post as a reference! :eek:

Whilst it is flattering that somebody considers me to be a reliable source, even I know that I am not!

But, it is a nightmare scenario because, with so many videos having been removed since I originally made out the Original Post, I don't have a clue what is right or not any more! :drama:

CaroLiza_fan
 

4everchan

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Country
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You have to be careful of Wikipedia, though. I am currently changing the format used for the "Programmes" section of my Fan Fests, and as I go along I am checking ISU Bios and Wikipedia to see if there were any mistakes.

For one partnership, I did spot a mistake that could mean that I had the wrong programme listed for a season (I had put the wrong year down for a performance in my video list). So, since they didn't have an ISU Bio back then and the YouTube video has since been removed, I went onto WIkipedia to check what it said their programme was for that season. And I discovered that the same mistake was on Wikipedia... because a Wikipedia editor who is also a GS member had used my Original Post as a reference! :eek:

Whilst it is flattering that somebody considers me to be a reliable source, even I know that I am not!

But, it is a nightmare scenario because, with so many videos having been removed since I originally made out the Original Post, I don't have a clue what is right or not any more! :drama:

CaroLiza_fan
In this case, the information is correct. no worries.
 
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kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
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Jun 6, 2019
I speak not about every successful artist or skater. I speak about concrete performances. Not every successful skater hugs all the people around with his glance and charges them with energy. I think in Yagudin’s case his positive energy was an important part of his success.
Yes... he is such a nice person to say "when will you die, earth's mistake" to Adam rippon on his Instagram story.
That isn't just having a different view, that is justifying your view to be nasty.
 

Rina RUS

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Yes... he is such a nice person to say "when will you die, earth's mistake" to Adam rippon on his Instagram story

This is NOT a nice deed, this is NOT OK.

Yet I think usually a person does both bad and good deeds, and if I know about bad deeds (or features), it doesn’t absolutely cross off good features, it doesn’t cross off the person forever (I mean not his or her skating, but his or her personality). I think there were cases when in a discussion I was saying something bad about a person, but it seems I can say that there is no skater whom I condemn every time when he or she is mentioned. I think I should remember about my own bad deeds (that I’d better judge not: “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged”).
I was saying from the beginning that I didn’t mean to say that Yagudin was perfect (innocent).
I don’t want to offend somebody with these words, but as far as I could see Denis Ten really liked Yagudin (I mean posts by Denis). And it doesn’t mean that Denis knew nothing bad about him. This is one more reason why I don’t cross off Yagudin forever.

As for “Winter”, I can try to show what I meant. It is not about his skating skills or quads.
Usually skaters just move their arms this way or that way, but as for “Winter”, in the middle of the program Yagudin literally rules the energy of all the audience by the movements of his arms (when he does his step sequence, at the same time he raises the energy up with his arms, and it is not the only moment when he raises the energy up) And the name of this energy is love. Does he become an arrogant owner of all this love? I’d say, he doesn’t. He shows with his arms that he lets this collected energy go up (back to the audience). He does it easily. I think not every person can give love back so easily, so open handedly.
Of course, this is just the choreography of this program. Yet I think not every skater could do the same.
I think people wouldn’t have a feeling that this program is something “out of this world”, if they didn’t see how easily he rules this ocean of love and how easily he gives this energy back to people. I think I speak not about Yagudin’s skating now, but about his personality.
(I think it is more visible in the Olympic video)

I think my view is clear now, I think views of those who disagree are clear too.
 
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