Does a piece of music 'belong' to a favourite skater?

[Mathman]

About Torvill and Dean, one interesting thing is that Bolero was probably not even their best program. A lot of people think that Mack and Mable was better.

Jayne Torvill & Christopher Dean - 1982 European Figure Skating Championships Mack & Mabel FD

For some reason this performance isn't as well publicised as their Copenhagen one but it's brilliant and so are the marks! Still, after all these years, Mack...

www.youtube.com

Similarly, was Riverdance Jason Brown's pinacle? (For some reason I liked The Room Where it Happens, though I don't say this very loudly on figure skating boards. Upthread TontoK said he liked Ryan Bradley's Mozart program. I thinught it was atrocious and certainly far from the standard of his iconic Boogie-woogie Bugle Boy. .We figure skating fans should be grateful that we don't agree on everything -- or, really, on much of anything. )

 

[Blades of Passion]

In terms of "legacy" and influence on the sport, when Yagudin did his step sequence everybody and their mama (including Michelle Kwan) rushed to the choreographer Morosov and begged him to give them a "Morosov step sequence." Skating purists might object that this toe-tappy dancing on you toe pick is not really what figure skating should strive for

I don't think it's accurate to call that a skating "purist" stance, this kind of movement has always existed in skating and was always celebrated, in both shows and competition. It's just the arbitrary code of points rules that destroyed footwork and now enforces a sadly narrow and ugly definition of what is worthwhile. The toepick is part of the ice skate. I would call it an isolationist (and delusional) stance to say otherwise. It's like telling ballerinas they are not allowed to rise up on their toes.

 

[Rina RUS]

The step sequence certainly was out of this world and I still love it - although Yagudin seems to have turned in quite a bigot

You know… I think Yagudin wouldn’t have had such a success back then, if he wasn’t so playful, if he didn’t have such a fantastical connection with the audience (with people), if his body wasn’t so relaxed and obedient to music… I think “dancing on his toe pick” wouldn’t have been “out of this world”, if his skating wasn’t so full with love. I don’t mean to say that he is perfect, but I think his personality isn’t really bad, if he is able to fill his performances with such love. He is careless, he can be rude, but his face does shine with sincerity when he hugs all the people around with his glance.
Maybe partly it is the thing which Tarasova taught him to do.
Yet anyway he is the person who is able to do it. I think not many people are able to.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I think his personality isn’t really bad, if he is able to fill his performances with such love. .

Generally a very bad take. A lot of successful artists have a nasty streak. I'm not saying Yagudin is bad, rather that this take is bad. Separate the performances from individual.

 

[Mathman]

The toepick is part of the ice skate. I would call it an isolationist (and delusional) stance to say otherwise. It's like telling ballerinas they are not allowed to rise up on their toes.

I just hate it when I say things that are isolationist and delusional. But what I meant was that the heart and soul of figure skating is gliding on edges, and, to my mind, everythinhg else is everything else. Ballerinas en pointe, now -- that's the sine qua non of ballet.

 

[Rina RUS]

Generally a very bad take. A lot of successful artists have a nasty streak. I'm not saying Yagudin is bad, rather that this take is bad. Separate the performances from individual.

I speak not about every successful artist or skater. I speak about concrete performances. Not every successful skater hugs all the people around with his glance and charges them with energy. I think in Yagudin’s case his positive energy was an important part of his success.

 

[TallyT]

While at it : Journey composed by Eric Radford for Patrick Chan : this is an example of a composer writing directly for the skater... so of course, if other skaters were to use Journey, it would bring back up strong and vivid memories of Chan's program.

That's a good example, and not just because it was written for Patrick.

 

[labgoat]

No music belongs to any skater. Some music will make you think of an iconic performance, but no. Riverdance I think of Jason Brown, but I like others too. W.E. I love Evgenia's program, and I love the music so much I hope more skaters skate to it. Evgenia has some great costumes, but I like when others copy it and I know she does too because she acknowledges them in an Insta story.
In this shirt, I think of Kevin.
And if I love the music, I like lots of different skaters skating to it.
We can't help but compare and think a particular skater has such a great performance to that music , but it still can be used again.

I also like W.E. as done by Papadakis Cizeron for their SD.

 

[4everchan]

That's a good example, and not just because it was written for Patrick.

I give so many examples....about so many skaters... Just saying... ,,

 

[labgoat]

I do think that the definitive Casablanca belongs to Kurt Browning.
The definite Madonna program belongs to Grishuk/Platov

Oksana Grishuk and Evgeny Platov European Ice Dance Champions 1997. Gala

The European Ice Dance champions of 1997, at the Gala presentation.

youtu.be

 

[TallyT]

I give so many examples....about so many skaters... Just saying... ,,

But nearly all examples given by everyone don't meet the exact question, do they? Which again illustrates how very very very few there are.

 

[4everchan]

I do think that the definitive Casablanca belongs to Kurt Browning.
The definite Madonna program belongs to Grisham/Platov

Oksana Grishuk and Evgeny Platov European Ice Dance Champions 1997. Gala

The European Ice Dance champions of 1997, at the Gala presentation.

youtu.be

Just curious... As anyone else ever skated to Casablanca... Before and after Kurt?

 

[4everchan]

But nearly all examples given by everyone don't meet the exact question, do they? Which again illustrates how very very very few there are.

Fair enough. I personally do not think music belongs to skaters... But managed to find a case to contradict my own belief hahaha

 

[labgoat]

Just curious... As anyone else ever skated to Casablanca... Before and after Kurt?

I think they have I just cannot recall who did it. Obviously it did not surpass the Kurt program for me.

 

[Mathman]

I do think that the definitive Casablanca belongs to Kurt Browning.

Not to mention the definitive Singin' in the Rain. Or does that go to Gene Kelly?

 

[Blades of Passion]

But what I meant was that the heart and soul of figure skating is gliding on edges

Yes yes of course, but footwork of all different types is possible within ice skating, and was rewarded in competitive skating for the longest time. And I know you enjoy it too.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Okay, ive spoken on this thread without actually speaking on the original question.

My answer is, in some cases I don't like people using overused music that one skater did really successfully.

Take hallelujah. There was a beautiful program by P chan and Carolina Kostner. After that, it became very overused, and nobody else bought more to the table. I'd rather not have seen that program again.

On the flip side take Carmen. After plushenko did Carmen at the Olympics, I didn't expect to be impressed again. Then when Kolyada did it I was. But that may be because its a cultural classic, that's also timeless in its own sense.

I think no skater owns music, provided somebody brings something new anf incredible to the performance of the music. In some cases (Virtue/Moir Moulin Rouge and Patrick & Kostners Hallelujah), I don't see it happening so think skaters should avoid them. But happy for skaters to prove me wrong

 

[gkelly]

I think no skater owns music, provided somebody brings something new anf incredible to the performance of the music. In some cases (Virtue/Moir Moulin Rouge and Patrick & Kostners Hallelujah), I don't see it happening so think skaters should avoid them. But happy for skaters to prove me wrong

I would have been sorry to miss Mariah Bell's Hallelujah.

In general, if there is a famous/iconic performance to a particular piece of music, I think skaters would do well to be aware of it, and if they're at a level where they hope to produce their own masterpieces they should not choose a piece closely associated with skater, especially a recent one in their own discipline, unless they have something personal to themselves to bring to the interpretation.

For younger, less prominent, and/or less artistically inclined skaters, they may choose to skate to music that reminds them of a favorite performance by one of their own favorite skaters as a source of inspiration for themselves, even if they have no expectations of living up to that performance. Knowing that fans and judges may compare them to the iconic performance and find them comparatively lacking may be a small price to pay compared to training to music every day that brings out the best that they themselves are currently capable of.

There have also been a number of programs mentioned in this thread that I don't associate with the same skaters that the poster felt was iconic. I.e., not all fans have the same associations with particular music. So I don't think we can expect skaters to anticipate what every fan (or every judge) might associate with that music and avoid anything that someone somewhere might consider off-limits.

 

[Mathman]

I would have been sorry to miss Mariah Bell's Hallelujah.

Me, too. Especially in the category of, "it means something special to the skater."

 

[labgoat]

Staying with Ice Dance, and topical given that I watched "Black Swan" a couple of days ago, "Swan Lake" means Elena Ilinykh / Nikita Katsalapov to me.

They are the dancers I associate with this music.. I also know of a couple of young girls who also did it pretty well.

Oksana Baiul 1993 Skate America SP Swan Lake

Oksana Baiul 1993 Skate America SP Swan Lake

youtu.be

and

Sasha Cohen - 2003 Campbells "Swan Lake"

youtu.be