2014 Worlds - Free Dance

[BlackPack]

Don't you ever make life changing decisions while lolling around on a beach?

The best place to make a decision is when you're just CHILLIN'!!!! DUDE!!!!! This Nikita guy just seems to be as air-headed and absent as his twizzles.

 

[Ryan O]

piper is terrrrible. which is a shame, because paul is very, very good

Piper is terrible? She's now a Top 10 Ice Dancer. Top 8, in fact. Of course she doesn't have Paul's level of ability yet - this is only her 3rd year at the Senior level, and his 7th. Not many girls would be good enough to skate with Paul Poirier, but she has worked very hard to improve her skating over the past 3 seasons and it showed this year and was rewarded.

 

[BlackPack]

Piper is terrible? She's now a Top 10 Ice Dancer. Top 8, in fact. Of course she doesn't have Paul's level of ability yet - this is only her 3rd year at the Senior level, and his 7th. Not many girls would be good enough to skate with Paul Poirier, but she has worked very hard to improve her skating over the past 3 seasons and it showed this year and was rewarded.

Sometimes fans can be very tough on skaters. I see skaters improve so much over the course of their careers such as C&L, and yet they're not given much credit at least with the fan base. The judges do recognize their improvements and efforts at times and promptly reward them, and then the fans cry foul. Personally, W&P were my favorites and I do think they should have won, but I'm also OK with C&L winning. I definitely don't agree that P&B should have won and they are correctly placed IMO based on their weaker program as well as less mastery over their elements in comparison to W&P and C&L. In any case, this was about Piper. I haven't followed Piper's career, but based on what she has executed in Hitchcock, she performed her elements well.

I don't think it's fair to judge skaters based on their past level or even on natural ability.

You don't win on natural ability alone, in skating or in life. You make the most of your ability and resources so you can win. There are so many ways to do so, and natural ability is just a portion of the pie.

 

[Ryan O]

Sometimes fans can be very tough on skaters. I see skaters improve so much over the course of their careers such as C&L, and yet they're not given much credit at least with the fan base. The judges do recognize their improvements and efforts at times and promptly reward them, and then the fans cry foul. Personally, W&P were my favorites and I do think they should have won, but I'm also OK with C&L winning. I definitely don't agree that P&B should have won and they are correctly placed IMO based on their weaker program as well as less mastery over their elements in comparison to W&P and C&L. In any case, this was about Piper. I haven't followed Piper's career, but based on what she has executed in Hitchcock, she performed her elements well.

I don't think it's fair to judge skaters based on their past level or even on natural ability.

You don't win on natural ability alone, in skating or in life. You make the most of your ability and resources so you can win. There are so many ways to do so, and natural ability is just a portion of the pie.

You make some good points. And in a subjective, judged sport, it's challenging to evaluate one skater in comparison to another. And there can also be a difference between what the judges think vs. what the audience thinks, like you said.

With regard to Piper, I was responding to posters such as hyperinflation who say that Piper is a weaker skater than Paul. Of course Paul was a stronger skater when he teamed up with Piper - he has twice as much experience. By the time Piper joined with Paul in 2011, he had already been to an Olympic Games and several World Championships. Piper had never been to a Worlds until she went with Paul in 2013.

But sometimes people forget the personality aspect to a partnership. It's not just about whether a partner can achieve the right technical skills, but whether they are someone you are going to like being with. Your partner could have the potential to be the best in the world, but if you don't get along, the partnership won't last. From everything I've heard, one of the reasons Paul wanted to be with Piper is because he also liked her as a person. An important part of how they got to this point is their off-ice friendship. If you enjoy being with your partner, it helps get you through the ups and downs of competition, and you have someone supportive during the pain & suffering of injuries!

 

[WeakAnkles]

You make some good points. And in a subjective, judged sport, it's challenging to evaluate one skater in comparison to another. And there can also be a difference between what the judges think vs. what the audience thinks, like you said.

With regard to Piper, I was responding to posters such as hyperinflation who say that Piper is a weaker skater than Paul. Of course Paul was a stronger skater when he teamed up with Piper - he has twice as much experience. By the time Piper joined with Paul in 2011, he had already been to an Olympic Games and several World Championships. Piper had never been to a Worlds until she went with Paul in 2013.

But sometimes people forget the personality aspect to a partnership. It's not just about whether a partner can achieve the right technical skills, but whether they are someone you are going to like being with. Your partner could have the potential to be the best in the world, but if you don't get along, the partnership won't last. From everything I've heard, one of the reasons Paul wanted to be with Piper is because he also liked her as a person. An important part of how they got to this point is their off-ice friendship. If you enjoy being with your partner, it helps get you through the ups and downs of competition, and you have someone supportive during the pain & suffering of injuries!

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to edges and the technical aspects of ice dancing, but I've seen enough dancing to know Piper has two critical issues that are fixable: she has a bad tendency not to finish moves and her extension is not great. Working on flexibility would be a big help. And finished moves simply look more polished. Marlie had the same problems: they tended to rush through move and Meryl's extension needed work. That tango program was the first where I saw what looked to be a concentrated effort to address both issues (their third was control, learning to hold back as well as to skate full out). To her credit, Piper has improved tremendously since her partnership with Paul began. But there is simply more work to be done.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The best place to make a decision is when you're just CHILLIN'!!!! DUDE!!!!! This Nikita guy just seems to be as air-headed and absent as his twizzles.

My nickname for him is Ken Doll.

Thanks YagsFan for the compliment.

 

[bartlebooth]

whole post

:agree:

May I quote you with my blood or does it give too much of a "crazy fangirl" vibe?

 

[sisinka]

First of all congratulations to all medalists, you did a great job.

P&B – I wished to see something so great like I saw at the Olympics…and I saw, it is for the second time in row when they skate a “skate of their lifes“ and I felt that it was perfect and it couldn’t be done better. Unfortunately for the second time in a row judges didn’t notice it. It it more than obvious that this couple will not stay in hearts of those 14 judges at the Olympics and those 14 judges at Worlds, but they will stay in hearts of many thousands of people watching this sport me including…I will remember them for great dancing and bringing something new to this sport (unfortunately I will also remember them for not getting as high placements as they deserved this season at the Olympics and Worlds).

I agree with many of you that their P&B’s SD was not so good, but there was no way why they should loose FD to anyone, they were the best couple of the night in every aspect except Skating Skills.

BlackPack noticed that people and judges should take into account what a skater executes on the ice, not how much bigh his/her talent is or how she/he skated few years ago. Yes, I agree that Piper Gilles is visibly weaker than Paul, but I also see that she improved in comparison with 3-4 years ago. She is still poor technician, but she works on it.

Some people here talk about superiority of I&K and explain it with great edges and flow. As you can notice this season a flow and speed is sometimes going somewhere far from them, they start to be rather slow in more than one part of their programs…but it is still better than flow getting from little jumps only. But I&K still have great Skating Skills and deep edges, with S&Z the deepest edges in this world field now. But I don’t think that great skating skills only prove superiority in ice dance in comparison with other teams. If so then S&Z would be on a medal placement, they skated two clean programs, their edges are deep and they are faster then I&K, they show great Skating Skills in more difficult choreo than I&K….NO! Skating Skills are not the only aspect in ice dance. There is expression to music, story line, transitions, choreography, maturity in movements, finished movements, timing, ice cover, body posture…I&K are missing most of those things which are connected to ice dance, while S&Z needs to be more mature and keep improving in ice cover and sometimes timing.

As to other teams – P&B, W&P, C&L, B&S, they have most of other aspects which I&K are missing. C&L are in trouble with timing sometimes, B&S don’t always have good postures. I agree with an opinion that a couple without very good or great skating skills can’t be on the podium, so I am the first one who thinks that Evan Bates and Penny and Nicolas should never be a medalists in Ice Dance cathegory with poor skating skills. But that is not a case of P&B, W&P, or even C&L.
Some of you described the situation like I&K would have great skating skills and all other top couples would be such terribly skilled, such terribly that even with completely missed element I&K can stay in Gold Medal‘s hope after SD. I don’t catch that. Even one top skater mentioned above is not in cathegory of British couple or Evan Bates or Tobias & Stagniunas as to technique. P&B have very good skating skills, W&P improved and their edges look good, B&S have great skating skills, C&L improved also and their edges are now decent.
The difference between I&K with S&Z‘s skating skills versus C&L is noticeable very much and personally I would give lower SS to Italians then they usually get. The difference between Russians and W&P is still visible but not killing, the difference between Russians Skating Skills and P&B is small….it is not a difference of a miles or so.

Looking at marking of Skating Skills - for me while couples like British, Tobias & Stagniunas would go about average (around 5 points) for Skating Skills, Chock & Bates would probably be a little compromise from average skills which means 5 points to Evan and good skills which means 7 points to Madison. I would have C&L in the highest of good which means 7.75 points. The only one who I would take into account for oustanding from 9.00 to 9.25 would be I&K, B&S and S&Z, around 8.75 to 9.00 for P&B and W&P.

If C&L are not great skilled and they have sometimes problems to catch timing and fast music, OK, this doesn’t deserve the best marks in moment when everybody is clean, let’s work on it. W&P – if Andrew and sometimes even Kaitlyn have problems to extend free leg and overall their skills are better but not the best, OK, let’s work on it, you shouldn’t get the highest Skating Skills. If P&B skate clean (and we know that they have better edges than C&L), they have great expression of music and very good transitions, OK, they deserve high marks except Skating Skills, where three Russian couples are above them. If I&K skate clean, their edges are great, so give them the highest Skating Skills (with B&S and S&Z) – well deserved, but their timing, story, not variable expression to the music/story, heavily performed lifts, poor transitions - are behind couples like P&B, W&P, C&L, B&S….the marks should reflect that also, no? When judges love to show to all couples that I&K are superior in Skating Skills, why in the same moment judges hide I&K’s weaknesses and gives them superior marks for all other four components and lifts…are they the best in it also? No, they are not.

And my personal note to I&K, if a couple is really so superior in Skating Skills why they don’t go in the same direction like B&S and S&Z who have more difficult steps and transitions, more close skating? Why I&K can’t extend free leg and can’t skate close to each other when B&S and S&Z are fully capable of it and even worse technicians like P&B (during whole dance) and C&L (in step sequences) know how to extend free leg and skate close?

C&L – it was good, they looked very concentrated not to make a mistake which is great but it shouldn’t be visible to audience, their skate was very similar to European and Olympic FD performaces but the energy and sharpness in movements were not there sometimes, so in slow parts it was OK, but a program was loosing the overall expression in fast parts where dynamic and sharp movements are necessary. I think that European and Olympic FD was better, but it was still very good and they are probably the couple with the best nerves this season aside Davis & White.

W&P – very very good, sometimes I felt a nervousness during their dance which culminated in twizzles. Overall I think that it was slightly better at the Olympics, but I liked it here a lot also. I liked that attack especially in Kaitlyn’s case, probably more people felt that a couple had sometimes some shaky moments but they didn’t give up and fought to the end – and it paid off. Like in C&L case it was visible that those two couples are not used to skate with Gold Medal opportunity…learn it, please, you will need it in future.

I&K – for the first time I saw them not over acting facial expression for the most of dance and it looked much better. Overall this was a program when I realised that the couple has the best skating skills from all and everything was clean. Lena fell out of a story line in last move (frankly if she would be able to give such dynamics into her movements and Nikita as well, I would say that they are able to express the drama and dynamics of final part of music, but they didn’t). I like that they skated clean and Nikita did great twizzles. As to presentation it was cold, no connection between partners, no reason why to give the highest components. While I&K executed the best overall technique on the ice, P&B, W&P, even C&L and S&Z executed better components (except Skating Skills mark).
Probably some people will think that coldness came from the split info, maybe, but then I would point to Zhiganshin who forgot about all rumours and problems and put all attention into his dancing only…and once again he proved that he is a great dancer and sorry to Nikita, but this season he is the best Russian male dancer. It takes me to S&Z – probably the best FD they skated this season and in the most important moment while fighting for three spots for Russian dancers next year. Emotional, dramatic, dynamic…everything was there. Execution of lifts and partly step sequences could be better, there is a space for improvement.

C&L and I&K were a good examples of skaters who this time skated in style: “Carefully, skate not to make a mistake.“ Personally I don’t like this. No music piece is careful and if you don’t skate to catch the whole potential, dynamics and tension hidden in the music, then as a dancer you didn’t do your job and you didn’t deserve the highest marks in every component which is connected with music/dancing. P&B skated on 150%, they didn’t keep back. S&Z and W&P attacked the music as much as they could in the moment. I can’t say the same about C&L and I&K. I realise that getting all levels is very important but if you sacrifice music for clean and high level elements, then you are skater only, not dancer.

From my personal way of view, I would give P&B, W&P and C&L on the podium in this order.

 

[sisinka]

If we look at what judges think…
The best lifters (looking at GOE of top 10 couples):
I&K: +5,93 GOE
W&P: +5,37 GOE
C&L and Chock & Bates: +5,23 GOE
Commes &Buckland: +4,52 GOE
G&P: +4,31 GOE
P&I: +4,23 GOE
P&B: +4,22 GOE
S&S: +3,87 GOE
S&Z: +3,57 GOE

Judges should look at entry/exit, ascent/descent, change of pose, rotation technique.
I know that I&K improved a lot in lifts and finally after four seasons of average lifts they came with good ones and more demanding lifts, so respect for it.
But how it happened that for the second competition in a row the judges think that they are the best lifters in the field…that is even more shocking that the fact that Chan withou a fall didn’t win the Olympics.
I&K – looking at GOE‘s recommendations for judges…there is no seamless entry in all lifts, Nikita always looks like warrior going into a battle in lifts, during second lift on knee he was constantly loosing balance and fourth lift was so heavily executed with so much effort – no excuse for giving +3 GOE. Nikita’s head moves in the second and fourth lifts to make a travelling of Lena around himself more easy are also not the most elegant. I agree with marks from 0 to +2 for opening lift where a position is beautiful but all the rest lifts should be around 0, +1, -1 if judges would like to go with rules.
Both C&B couples have the most acrobatic lifts and perform them very well, so I understand high GOE.
Why are P&B loosing GOE in lifts to Weaver, Cappellini, Gilles and Ilinykh, I don’t understand, it was a nice try from judges to keep the French down. P&B had a great balanced lifts, no hesitate in it, Natalie had great, sharp positions, very well executed changes of position, good technique in rotations. So why so low GOE for lifts in comparison with others?
I must say that I was surprised watching Paul & Islam’s lifts, I like the idea of those lifts and I would give them one of the highest GOE from top 10, Alexandra is perfect coming into a lifts and she helps her partner as much as possible, so overall look of all their lifts is as smooth and eary like the wind, that was great.
S&Z – I see a big effort in all lifts, it is always a fight for Ruslan like for Nikita, I see a small improvement in execution in first and third lift, while second lift doesn’t look elegant in entry and fourth lift – Ruslan was hardly balancing it.

The best twizzlers (looking at GOE, top 10 couples):
I&K: +1,36 GOE
C&L: +1,29 GOE
P&B and S&Z: +1,00 GOE
Chock & Bates and S&S: +0,79 GOE
W&P: +0,71 GOE
P&I: +0,64 GOE
Coomes & Buckland and G&P: +0,21 GOE

I would give the highest credit to I&K and S&Z, there was minor out of synchro in last two turns in the second set of twizzles for I&K, but still their twizzles are one of the best.
The speed with which Russians enter the twizzles is not enormous (it makes an illusion a little bit because they prepare for it longer then other couples and take more steps before it), but their speed is bigger in comparison with other couples.
P&B and C&L had twizzles on a very similar level, in few moments Luca tends to move his balance of standing leg more close to toe-pick, but it was just a hint of it, so he kept travelling across the ice.
W&P – judges were generous in marking, Andrew was loosing a balance in second set and Kaitlyn had problems in third set, I wouldn’t go for plus points for it.
Chock & Bates – nice twizzles, somewhere near to P&B and C&L.
S&S got the same GOE like Chock & Bates – I think that Shibs travelled better and were more smooth but Alex lost balance in third set and synchro went out a little bit thanks to it.
P&I – Alexandra was in trouble to keep balance in first set of twizzles.
Coomes & Buckland – Nicholas was better this time, Penny was sometimes close to toe-pick, in trouble at the end of third set, but it was one of their better twizzle‘s attempts.

Best executed step sequence (GOE from both step sequences):
I&K a W&P: +3,71 GOE
C&L: +3,14 GOE
P&B: +2,71 GOE
S&S: +2,58 GOE
S&Z: +2,57 GOE
Chock&Bates: +2,29 GOE
G&P: +2,28 GOE
Coomes&Buckland: +2,14 GOE
P&I: +2 GOE

Judges should look at edges, sureness, speed and flow, partner balance, clean turns, spacing between partners.
P&B – skating close, nice edges, synchro, didn’t loose speed, but didn’t start from great speed also, they had great body posture, extended free leg, decent knee’s work, overall very well executed.
S&Z – circular steps – great edges, great flow, sureness. There is a nice comparison with Shibs circular steps, if you compare those two couples, you will see that Russian‘s moves and arcs they create are really seamless and have great flow, while Shibs are loosing speed, also deepth of edges is significantly better for Russians. Straight line steps – Ruslan was looking for Victoria after turns (he got far from here in that moment), edges were nice but less deep than in circular steps, overall those sequence was a little bit worse than the first one.
I&K – circular steps – deep edges, I mind Lena’s free leg – I miss extension, with all those big arcs they are not fast (on the same level of speed like other top teams), overall very well executed, but in comparison with other top couples I find disturbing big space between partners, I also mind changing the distance, once they skate sooo far from each other, then they came closer then they skate sooo far to each other once again…I don’t think it is the best way how to execute a step sequnce. Even while they are in waltz or foxtrot holds the space between them is much bigger than in other couples. Diagonal steps – deep edges, very well executed, but that spacing…
W&P – circular steps – nice edges, not the best sureness in turns more from Andrew, and not always extended free leg mainly by Andrew, it looked quite well controled overall, but P&B’s steps looked more effortless done with more sureness. Diagonal steps were better and very well looking, but I still prefer French in GOE for steps.
C&L – decent edges, keeping concentration and going for every edge with effort, sometimes not the best sureness, overall nicely done, but judges were too generous about GOE, I think.
Chock & Bates – Evan was careful in circular steps and little unsure in second diagonal steps, decent edges, very very bad free leg position from Evan, it is very disturbing and destroying the whole expression from the steps and he also bends forward quite often, thanks to Evan I would personally keep 0 GOE like the best mark for both step sequences.
Shibs executed nicely their step sequences, edges decent also.

So overall all couples were loosing in all elements and all components to I&K, which I don’t think is right except Skating Skills and twizzles. P&B were loosing in GOE for lifts, step sequences, twizzles to other couples also (not only to I&K) – except twizzles I don’t know why as well.

 

[vinganca]

sisinka, i agree with pretty much everything you just said.
i honestly think P&B get marked down on subjective categories just for having unusual costumes and music. i wish ID judges would pull their heads out of their collective **** and reward creativity- or at least stop actively punishing people for being creative.

of course, in this particular competition the scores were SO close that even changing the order of the skaters could have been enough to change the rankings. my heart sank a little when i saw P/B had drawn the worst spot in the group. it's never a good thing to skate first.

to be fair, nailing the twizzles and completing the hold in the SD could have made enough of a difference to make up for the unfortunate draw for the FD. that's what kills me, they were SO CLOSE to gold and just barely missed it.

one of the reasons i admire P/B so much is that they stayed true to themselves and kept putting out genuinely interesting and different programs. in their shoes i might have given in to the temptation to sell out and start skating to overused warhorse music in boring costumes to increase favor with the judges, and i think it's admirable that they never abandoned their creativity and drive to actually entertain an audience and SAY something on the ice.

i am so over generic programs where the only 'story' or emotion is 'omg look how melodramatically in love we are! look, we're gazing longingly at each other!' BORING.i would rather watch Summer and Autumn weaving in and out in a clever representation of nature, or a Pharoah bringing a mummy to life, or a modern dance version of a Charlie Chaplin film, or the story of the Little Prince and his Rose. I love how they turn ordinary things into the unexpected- like a cabaret themed Finnstep (Bourzat said in an interview that their SD was about a guy who goes to a brothel, dances with a prostitute and then gets kicked out. ) The level of thought and care they put into the storytelling and characters in their programs, making sure every detail is there to support it, is what sets them above the rest for me.

 

[anyanka]

Judges should look at entry/exit, ascent/descent, change of pose, rotation technique.
I know that I&K improved a lot in lifts and finally after four seasons of average lifts they came with good ones and more demanding lifts, so respect for it.
But how it happened that for the second competition in a row the judges think that they are the best lifters in the field…that is even more shocking that the fact that Chan withou a fall didn’t win the Olympics.
I&K – looking at GOE‘s recommendations for judges…there is no seamless entry in all lifts, Nikita always looks like warrior going into a battle in lifts, during second lift on knee he was constantly loosing balance and fourth lift was so heavily executed with so much effort – no excuse for giving +3 GOE. Nikita’s head moves in the second and fourth lifts to make a travelling of Lena around himself more easy are also not the most elegant. I agree with marks from 0 to +2 for opening lift where a position is beautiful but all the rest lifts should be around 0, +1, -1 if judges would like to go with rules.
Both C&B couples have the most acrobatic lifts and perform them very well, so I understand high GOE.
Why are P&B loosing GOE in lifts to Weaver, Cappellini, Gilles and Ilinykh, I don’t understand, it was a nice try from judges to keep the French down. P&B had a great balanced lifts, no hesitate in it, Natalie had great, sharp positions, very well executed changes of position, good technique in rotations. So why so low GOE for lifts in comparison with others?
I must say that I was surprised watching Paul & Islam’s lifts, I like the idea of those lifts and I would give them one of the highest GOE from top 10, Alexandra is perfect coming into a lifts and she helps her partner as much as possible, so overall look of all their lifts is as smooth and eary like the wind, that was great.
S&Z – I see a big effort in all lifts, it is always a fight for Ruslan like for Nikita, I see a small improvement in execution in first and third lift, while second lift doesn’t look elegant in entry and fourth lift – Ruslan was hardly balancing it.

The best twizzlers (looking at GOE, top 10 couples):
I&K: +1,36 GOE
C&L: +1,29 GOE
P&B and S&Z: +1,00 GOE
Chock & Bates and S&S: +0,79 GOE
W&P: +0,71 GOE
P&I: +0,64 GOE
Coomes & Buckland and G&P: +0,21 GOE

I would give the highest credit to I&K and S&Z, there was minor out of synchro in last two turns in the second set of twizzles for I&K, but still their twizzles are one of the best.
The speed with which Russians enter the twizzles is not enormous (it makes an illusion a little bit because they prepare for it longer then other couples and take more steps before it), but their speed is bigger in comparison with other couples.
P&B and C&L had twizzles on a very similar level, in few moments Luca tends to move his balance of standing leg more close to toe-pick, but it was just a hint of it, so he kept travelling across the ice.
W&P – judges were generous in marking, Andrew was loosing a balance in second set and Kaitlyn had problems in third set, I wouldn’t go for plus points for it.
Chock & Bates – nice twizzles, somewhere near to P&B and C&L.
S&S got the same GOE like Chock & Bates – I think that Shibs travelled better and were more smooth but Alex lost balance in third set and synchro went out a little bit thanks to it.
P&I – Alexandra was in trouble to keep balance in first set of twizzles.
Coomes & Buckland – Nicholas was better this time, Penny was sometimes close to toe-pick, in trouble at the end of third set, but it was one of their better twizzle‘s attempts.

Best executed step sequence (GOE from both step sequences):
I&K a W&P: +3,71 GOE
C&L: +3,14 GOE
P&B: +2,71 GOE
S&S: +2,58 GOE
S&Z: +2,57 GOE
Chock&Bates: +2,29 GOE
G&P: +2,28 GOE
Coomes&Buckland: +2,14 GOE
P&I: +2 GOE

Judges should look at edges, sureness, speed and flow, partner balance, clean turns, spacing between partners.
P&B – skating close, nice edges, synchro, didn’t loose speed, but didn’t start from great speed also, they had great body posture, extended free leg, decent knee’s work, overall very well executed.
S&Z – circular steps – great edges, great flow, sureness. There is a nice comparison with Shibs circular steps, if you compare those two couples, you will see that Russian‘s moves and arcs they create are really seamless and have great flow, while Shibs are loosing speed, also deepth of edges is significantly better for Russians. Straight line steps – Ruslan was looking for Victoria after turns (he got far from here in that moment), edges were nice but less deep than in circular steps, overall those sequence was a little bit worse than the first one.
I&K – circular steps – deep edges, I mind Lena’s free leg – I miss extension, with all those big arcs they are not fast (on the same level of speed like other top teams), overall very well executed, but in comparison with other top couples I find disturbing big space between partners, I also mind changing the distance, once they skate sooo far from each other, then they came closer then they skate sooo far to each other once again…I don’t think it is the best way how to execute a step sequnce. Even while they are in waltz or foxtrot holds the space between them is much bigger than in other couples. Diagonal steps – deep edges, very well executed, but that spacing…
W&P – circular steps – nice edges, not the best sureness in turns more from Andrew, and not always extended free leg mainly by Andrew, it looked quite well controled overall, but P&B’s steps looked more effortless done with more sureness. Diagonal steps were better and very well looking, but I still prefer French in GOE for steps.
C&L – decent edges, keeping concentration and going for every edge with effort, sometimes not the best sureness, overall nicely done, but judges were too generous about GOE, I think.
Chock & Bates – Evan was careful in circular steps and little unsure in second diagonal steps, decent edges, very very bad free leg position from Evan, it is very disturbing and destroying the whole expression from the steps and he also bends forward quite often, thanks to Evan I would personally keep 0 GOE like the best mark for both step sequences.
Shibs executed nicely their step sequences, edges decent also.

So overall all couples were loosing in all elements and all components to I&K, which I don’t think is right except Skating Skills and twizzles. P&B were loosing in GOE for lifts, step sequences, twizzles to other couples also (not only to I&K) – except twizzles I don’t know why as well.

Excellent analysis, as usual. Spasibo bolshoe, sisinka! You should be judging these events!

 

[vinganca]

also i'm glad the Shibs aren't retiring after all. a lot of people seem to count them out and i think it's for a similar reason to P/B - they don't do cliche love stories on the ice. Which is why i like them.

 

[bartlebooth]

Thank you, sisinska, for your detailed, insightful analysis.

 

[BlackPack]

My nickname for him is Ken Doll.

Thanks YagsFan for the compliment.

This song reminds me of Niki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A

 

[jolen]

Piper is terrible? She's now a Top 10 Ice Dancer. Top 8, in fact. Of course she doesn't have Paul's level of ability yet - this is only her 3rd year at the Senior level, and his 7th. Not many girls would be good enough to skate with Paul Poirier, but she has worked very hard to improve her skating over the past 3 seasons and it showed this year and was rewarded.

Yes, she has improved but she is, still, pretty bad. Being as vested in Poirier as you are, I think you are missing the forest for the trees. He is pulling her up into the top 10, not a result reflective of the "team" effort". With three top teams not skating, top 10 result is by attrition.

"Not many girls would be good enough to skate with Paul Poirier" - really???? What kind of skating super hero is he?

 

[WeakAnkles]

This song reminds me of Niki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A

Prefab dance pop rules! It would be HILARIOUS if I/K skated to this. She'd need a blonde wig though.

 

[dorispulaski]

sisinka, you can't gain forward speed across the ice by jumping or hopping. In fact if you look carefully, skaters build up speed to jump and then either maintain or lose speed in a series of jumps. The loss of speed is due to bad technique in the landing. A rough landing loses your forward momentum to friction, to throwing a shower of ice into the air. Watch any skater doing three hops or jumps in a row and you'll see they tend to lose speed or stay at approximately the same speed. You really cannot repeal the laws of physics to make an argument about ice dance.

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-ice-skating.html

Newton' s Laws of physics work. Perpendicular components of motion are independent. The force you exert downward on the ice to jump propels you upward. The force you exert parallel to the ice increases your forward speed.

In the most simple to see example, you cannot make an object move forward by pushing it straight upward.

Independence of perpendicular components of force, velocity, and momentum
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/vectors/u3l1g.cfm
The physics of simple jumps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping

So why do dancers jump? Mostly, it is a device to emphasize the rhythm in a quick paced bit of music. The trick falls flat if the landings of the hops lose you forward speed. Leaps are used to reflect high points in the music.

A less defensible reason is to fill up time while getting from point A to point B with something other than crossovers. It's a time using device similar to static posing sections.

Also I do not think Evan Bates is as bad a skater as you paint him. Check out his ability to hold speed and a really good curved edge going backwards on one foot while lifting Madison while she changes positions in a most astonishing way. What you see in his basic skating is the fact that he is still in the process of learning to match his movements to Madison's, given that she is much shorter than his previous partner. They have only been paired for a relatively short time, the same or less than Gilles & Poirier. You write as though he will not be able to improve at all, and that is seldom true of any athlete that really works on a problem.

And saying you would give him a 5 for skating skills is too harsh. You are saying that C&B are so bad that they should not qualify to skate the free dance, since a team's skating skills is to be judged at the level of the weaker of the two team members. If you check the SD protocols, you will find that teams that get a 5 for skating skills go home without skating the FD. That is not to say that Evan is a Scott Moir in the making, but he is not Florian Roost either.

 

[WeakAnkles]

sisinka, you can't gain forward speed across the ice by jumping or hopping. In fact if you look carefully, skaters build up speed to jump and then either maintain or lose speed in a series of jumps. The loss of speed is due to bad technique in the landing. A rough landing loses your forward momentum to friction, to throwing a shower of ice into the air. Watch any skater doing three hops or jumps in a row and you'll see they tend to lose speed or stay at approximately the same speed. You really cannot repeal the laws of physics to make an argument about ice dance.

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-ice-skating.html

Newton' s Laws of physics work. Perpendicular components of motion are independent. The force you exert downward on the ice to jump propels you upward. The force you exert parallel to the ice increases your forward speed.

In the most simple to see example, you cannot make an object move forward by pushing it straight upward.

Independence of perpendicular components of force, velocity, and momentum
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/vectors/u3l1g.cfm
The physics of simple jumps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping

So why do dancers jump? Mostly, it is a device to emphasize the rhythm in a quick paced bit of music. The trick falls flat if the landings of the hops lose you forward speed. Leaps are used to reflect high points in the music.

A less defensible reason is to fill up time while getting from point A to point B with something other than crossovers. It's a time using device similar to static posing sections.

Also I do not think Evan Bates is as bad a skater as you paint him. Check out his ability to hold speed and a really good curved edge going backwards on one foot while lifting Madison while she changes positions in a most astonishing way. What you see in his basic skating is the fact that he is still in the process of learning to match his movements to Madison's, given that she is much shorter than his previous partner. They have only been paired for a relatively short time, the same or less than Gilles & Poirier. You write as though he will not be able to improve at all, and that is seldom true of any athlete that really works on a problem.

:agree:

 

[BlackPack]

Oh Doris... what would the world do without a scientist like you? All mired in subjective, wishful thinking. We need truth!

 

[BlackPack]

Prefab dance pop rules! It would be HILARIOUS if I/K skated to this. She'd need a blonde wig though.

I thought he's going to skate this with the blonde Sinitsina Guess not, they're still "soul-searching" on the beaches ....