2014 Worlds - Free Dance

[Blades of Passion]

But it's not the hop itself then that is generating the speed; it's the corresponding push with the toe pick.

Not all hops use the toepick. It also depends on how much sideways force the hop is using.

As Doris said, "The force you exert parallel to the ice increases your forward speed."

If someone is hopping mostly straight up without much of a push sideways into the ice then, yeah, that isn't a "cheat" to help increase their speed instead of using edges. By the same token, though, you can hop across the ice rather quickly by pushing into it on each hop.

The hops that Davis/White use going into their twizzles don't have a forceful toepick assist to generate speed. They do, however, have a lot of hops in the program where the toepick is pushing the ice.

 

[Ryan O]

Well, there's Vanessa Crone.......

For Asher Hill? Interesting idea. Presumably you mean that humorously, but in the unlikely event that it were to happen, at least they have known each other since they were kids since they were training mates in the C&P days.

But as I said above, partnerships changes may be a fun topic for people to ponder over on a message board, but in practice only a small number of them are feasible. Skating partnerships require the support of federations, family, judges, fans, etc. in order to be successful and go the distance. It usually takes several seasons to make strides and really get one off the ground and skating federations invest a lot of money and publicity in their teams and don't respond favorably to them changing all the time. And look at how much heat some skaters still get from skating fans years later when a partnership breaks up!

 

[wasabi]

For Asher Hill? Interesting idea. Presumably you mean that humorously, but in the unlikely event that it were to happen, at least they have known each other since they were kids since they were training mates in the C&P days.

But as I said above, partnerships changes may be a fun topic for people to ponder over on a message board, but in practice only a small number of them are feasible. Skating partnerships require the support of federations, family, judges, fans, etc. in order to be successful and go the distance. It usually takes several seasons to make strides and really get one off the ground and skating federations invest a lot of money and publicity in their teams and don't respond favorably to them changing all the time. And look at how much heat some skaters still get from skating fans years later when a partnership breaks up!

I am quite sure Clover was referring to Vanessa being at the top Senior level and therefore at Paul's.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Thank you BoP and sisinka for the physics/technique lesson. I actually find physics very interesting (understanding fulcrums has saved my back on numerous occasions when helping friends move). The objection I have with Sphilband is more choreographic than technical--the man has simply run out of ideas, it seems, and is endlessly recycling them for the 9234784554 couples he coaches. I tend to respond more to choreography and performance. And I suppose I'm probably not as much a purist about technique as I probably should be. But I'm finding the discussion very informative and entertaining.

 

[BlackPack]

*facepalm*

I am unable to offer any scientific proof, but having skated just for fun, hops are dangerous and you need to have good edges to handle the force descending on slippery ice.

I'm not sure why anyone would try to disprove something that is not only scientifically proven but also makes physical sense.

 

[Matt K]

Here is Tobias/Stagniunas's Les Miserables FD from 2011. Also, choreographed by Igor Shpilband, their diagonal step sequence uses the same One Day More music cut as Chock/Bates diagonal step sequence up to the end of the program. I have time-stamped everything:

Tobias/Stagniunas start of diagonal step sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8qe5B4SaY#t=3m38s
Chock/Bates start of diagonal step sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY_cKJ91tno#t=3m36s


Speaking of lifts, there have been several couples who have done the one-leg backwards curved lift, including V/M in their senior debut in 2007, and many junior couples. Coomes/Buckland have done this lift every single year now. They did a difficult one in 2013. In Juniors, Papadakis/Cizeron did a one at last year's Jr. Worlds, impressive because of the lack of height difference. Pushkash/Guerreiro did one in 2011-12 when they were with Linichuk.

V/M, 2011 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2dtFNiMKKY#t=2m15s
V/M, 2010 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMyl7-vzJ3c#t=1m42s
V/M, 2008 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBVli-xfJK0#t=0m55s (look at Scott's deep tracing on the back outside edge)
V/M, 2006 Skate Canada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4kQwq68udw#t=1m52s
V/M, 2007 Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG5YVQH4n_g#t=1m48s

Coomes/Buckland 2013 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZwSwaHwz7g#t=2m59s
Coomes/Buckland 2011 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR3NMRbUUZA#t=2m35s
Coomes/Buckland 2012 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yP3-fwx3zE#t=3m43s


Papadakis/Cizeron, 2013 Jr. Worlds FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkRHaAwO1po#t=3m12s
Zahorski/Miart, 2011 Jr. Worlds FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhgLDaa19aw#t=1m58s
Pushkash/Guerreiro, 2011 FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s45Y54JHh8#t=1m18s

P/B (although Fabian is on an inside edge and his free leg is crossed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVBFVAjaKvg#t=0m58s

Hawayek/Baker 2013 Jr. Worlds FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dedt60n2okw#t=0m55s (this curve lift was copied from V/M's in 2008)
So many couples do a one-leg backwards curve lift. Dubreuil/Lauzon (not the same lift, I know), is an example where she has to be very careful so that her weight is helping push backwards (in the direction he is skating, backwards) rather than grabbing him forward : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdhZVF5IF3A#t=1m14s

vs. the Straight-line lift on one foot in V/M's FD: (is NOT a curve lift, and not meant to be one) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP2lHxVvNJs#t=1m03s

As for skating skills for the men (besides Scott Moir), the other best skaters from this quad and last were Maxim Shabalin and now, Katsalapov. Yes, Katsalapov. While everyone groupthinks that Elena is the star of the show and superior to Nikita (yes, she is a star and I agree she was born to skate), Nikita can easily hold his own. These three male skaters have the best skating skills. I think Shabalin and Nikita Katsalapov get overlooked because both their partners were such stars in their partnerships (and Shabalin's injury).

 

[sisinka]

*facepalm*

I am unable to offer any scientific proof, but having skated just for fun, hops are dangerous and you need to have good edges to handle the force descending on slippery ice.

I'm not sure why anyone would try to disprove something that is not only scientifically proven but also makes physical sense.

Figure skating is a very demanding sport, it needs all your muscles ready for this kind of job and a demand for coordination of body is very high.

Figure skating is a great sport no matter if you are skater – just for fun or top level skater.
But we have to realise that every skater who we are watching at Championships is a person who skates from a very early age, they all spent hours and hours every day for many years to learn how to work with his/her body, coordination, muscles. You need your back muscles fixed, you need good knee and hip’s work, good position of arms, shoulders etc…there are so many things which you have to learn…and all those skaters are doing it and learning it since their childhood. So I completely refuse to say that for any skater on competive level at Europeans or even all B-competitions – are hops or little jumps dangerous or difficult.

Just look at skaters and their failing – in what elements are mistakes done? In twizzles, sometimes in lifts, very rarely on spin…and never on hops or little jumps. I don’t remember any dancer to make any mistake on hops or little jumps. Also hops are one of elements which little kids will learn soon starting skating. And don’t forget that all dancers started their skating career like single skaters – so they all were learning single and double jumps, some of them even started to learn triple jumps. (Yes and one Charlie White with all triples except axel.)

If you have problems with hops on the ice, then make sure that before take off: 1) a balance of your body is above a standing leg you will take off from, 2) make your muscles – especially back muscles fixed as much as possible, 3) before take off you need to go more deep into your knee and take off goes from toe pick, 4) in moment of take off mainly power up goes from leg, NO shaking and moving with shoulders and back in direction of forward, backward, up or down, 5) landing NOT on fully extended leg and still having fixed back muscles.

 

[sisinka]

As for skating skills for the men (besides Scott Moir), the other best skaters from this quad and last were Maxim Shabalin and now, Katsalapov. Yes, Katsalapov. While everyone groupthinks that Elena is the star of the show and superior to Nikita (yes, she is a star and I agree she was born to skate), Nikita can easily hold his own. These three male skaters have the best skating skills. I think Shabalin and Nikita Katsalapov get overlooked because both their partners were such stars in their partnerships (and Shabalin's injury).

I agree, those three are/were great technicians. I would add that I think that a choreographer is the most important one who creates a whole image of a couple – and that a choreographer was one of reasons why Maxim and Nikita were/are overlooked a little bit.

Tessa and Scott’s choreographies – I had always a feeling that their parts are equal, that a choreographer wanted to present Tessa and Scott, not Tessa only or Scott only. They were presenting music, themself and a choreography were done in a style of: “Hey, look how much great Tessa and Scott are in any music and they are dancing perfectly and they are so smooth.“

Oksana & Maxim’s choreographies – while I always had an idea that Scott is propagating Tessa but he is still showing himself and emphasises that he is no way worse, Maxim puts his main effort into showing the world how much is Oksana great/talented/beautiful. They were a couple with the best action talent also, I always believed their expression and getting into music/story, but I had always an idea that their choreographer Sergei Pethukov made a bigger effort into showing great Oksana and Maxim’s part was more above supporting her. With Linichuk – it was sudennly different, their first season together in both Lady and a Hooligan OD and Spartacus FD – it was Maxim who was a main hero. But thanks to injury getting worse and worse, their last year in 2009/10, it was Oksana who got bigger space again.

Lena & Nikita – this is quite extreme in my eyes, I wonder whether their facial expression, hugging, in love looks and touches were what Sphilband was teaching Nikita – if he really imagined anything like that. Overall looking at their choreographies in last three years I have always a feeling that Lena is a star and Nikita is here to do anything what a star will want or need. She is like an Oscar actress and Nikita is her bracelet – just living to show how great is she. The fact that Lena is posing in front of judges and making so many gestures towards them only supports the idea. I think that it is a shame, there is no reason why should be Nikita hidden behind Lena, he is not worse, just different from a style she uses on the ice. Giving him only “desperately in love with Lena“ style of skating can work one year, but doing it constantly for three years in a row in every program no matter what music/story is about – I think he deserves more (and personaly I think that music and audience deserve more as well). Morozov tries to copy Zhulin‘s idea with Navka & Kostomarov, but in this case it was necessary, Kostomarov was weak in technic and he needed to be hidden behind Navka…but this is not Katsalapov’s case.

 

[WeakAnkles]

And I can't even stand on skates for any length of time before I crash and burn (with embarrassment!).

I'm sure in a previous lifetime I was Axel Paulsen. I'm sure of it!

 

[Ryan O]

Still wondering who told Piper that dress was a good look.

Fashion Designer Nick Verreos has named Piper's FD dress as one of the best of the season:

Another one of my favorite Ice Dance costumes were worn by Canada's Gilles and Poirier. They skated to a "Hitchcock" medley and wore the above costumes in black with silver accents. Perfect; sublime and oh-so-good! Oh and yes, their Free Skate was one of my Top All-time FAVORITES of the entire season!

http://nickverrreos.blogspot.ca/2014/04/ice-styleisu-world-figure-skating.html

 

[Alba]

Lena & Nikita – this is quite extreme in my eyes, I wonder whether their facial expression, hugging, in love looks and touches were what Sphilband was teaching Nikita – if he really imagined anything like that. Overall looking at their choreographies in last three years I have always a feeling that Lena is a star and Nikita is here to do anything what a star will want or need. She is like an Oscar actress and Nikita is her bracelet – just living to show how great is she. The fact that Lena is posing in front of judges and making so many gestures towards them only supports the idea. I think that it is a shame, there is no reason why should be Nikita hidden behind Lena, he is not worse, just different from a style she uses on the ice. Giving him only “desperately in love with Lena“ style of skating can work one year, but doing it constantly for three years in a row in every program no matter what music/story is about – I think he deserves more (and personaly I think that music and audience deserve more as well).

I never looked them that way, and certainly never got the impression that Nikita was there to "serve" Elena. He looks very strong and masculine.
I see them as equal, that's why I don't want them to split.

 

[Alba]

Fashion Designer Nick Verreos has named Piper's FD dress as one of the best of the season:

Another one of my favorite Ice Dance costumes were worn by Canada's Gilles and Poirier. They skated to a "Hitchcock" medley and wore the above costumes in black with silver accents. Perfect; sublime and oh-so-good! Oh and yes, their Free Skate was one of my Top All-time FAVORITES of the entire season!

http://nickverrreos.blogspot.ca/2014/04/ice-styleisu-world-figure-skating.html

What does it mean "whickety-wack" ?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Rap slang for ....lame...uncool....boring

 

[Alba]

Rap slang for ....lame...uncool....boring

Thanks.

 

[pharmtech1]

They are my pick to explode in the next couple of years ! Paul Poirier is so talented in both technique and artistry any partner I think would take the back seat . However Piper has improved quite a bit even from last season and will continue to do so . Poirier just has it all talent , smarts and good looks !!!

 

[Ryan O]

What does it mean "whickety-wack" ?

Which team's costumes did Nick Verreros say that about?

ETA: Oh, Cappellini & Lanotte. But he liked them overall, just not the top part, I guess.

 

[Ryan O]

They are my pick to explode in the next couple of years ! Paul Poirier is so talented in both technique and artistry any partner I think would take the back seat . However Piper has improved quite a bit even from last season and will continue to do so . Poirier just has it all talent , smarts and good looks !!!

Don't let 'pangtongfan' see this. He/she will think you are one of those crafty Skate Canada officials trying to shill for Poirier!

 

[Alba]

Which team's costumes did Nick Verreros say that about?

ETA: Oh, Cappellini & Lanotte. But he liked them overall, just not the top part, I guess.

I know, I was just curious. Anyway, I agree with him tbh.

 

[WeakAnkles]

They are my pick to explode in the next couple of years ! Paul Poirier is so talented in both technique and artistry any partner I think would take the back seat . However Piper has improved quite a bit even from last season and will continue to do so . Poirier just has it all talent , smarts and good looks !!!

It's quite possible we'll eventually have a Gilles/Poirier vs Chock/Bates rivalry the next quad, if both teams continue to improve as they have. Nothing like a good rivalry to heat things up.

 

[Ryan O]

It's quite possible we'll eventually have a Gilles/Poirier vs Chock/Bates rivalry the next quad, if both teams continue to improve as they have. Nothing like a good rivalry to heat things up.

C&B have the edge right now, but the gap between the 2 teams narrowed at this year's Worlds. These two teams formed at almost the exact time. Samuelson & Bates went separate ways in Spring 2011 at the same time that Crone & Poirier did. There was also an article which reported that Samuelson and Poirier considered skating together but there may have been issues with her release from the USFS.

In the end we got the present two teams, and I think G&P and C&B made the right decision in who they partnered with. C&B have moved up the standings pretty fast and overtaken The Shibutanis and Hubbell & Donohue. And after a sub-standard result by Gilles & Poirier at last year's Worlds, they made a big leap in the standings this year. Key to G&P's success has been how well their personalities have clicked together. Piper's former coach Patti Gotwein has said that she thinks Piper & Paul are perfect for each other, and I think I agree with her so far.