2016 NHK Trophy Short Dance

[nolangoh]

It is a little weird that Gabriella and Guillaume lost a level on the Partial Step sequence...and they didn't get as much GOE as last time in
France.

And huge congrats for Tessa and Scott!!! Hit all the levels and GOEs!!!

 

[alain06fr]

Correction from my side: What I thought could be a mistake at the 3rd minute is part as the chores as pointed out by "all that". I just made the comparison with the French masters and the TDF. The camera angle gives the impression there might be something wrong at this moment but that's not the case.

Honesty speaking, it's a bit hard for me to understand the 4 points difference (which is BTW not a minor difference). Looking to the detailed judge scores, I can see the gap is related to:
1) "Not touching Step Sequence" (V/M 11.74 and P/C 9.46)
2) "Partial Step Sequence" (V/M 9.46 and P/C 7.96)
Now, I don't see major mistakes with P/C step sequences but some of you may have some clue (please tell us)

Romain Haguenauer looks so badly surprised when the scores appear that he moves is head down to check the numbers on the other monitor. Then he moves again his head in the direction of Guillaume and asks in french "Non ?" (no need to translate I guess) and you can see Guillaume replying to Romain by nodding with a negative sign. Given the situation, I understand Guillaume is clearly disappointed by the scores.

 

[maya1985]

Correction from my side: What I thought could be a mistake at the 3rd minute is part as the chores as pointed out by "all that". I just made the comparison with the French masters and the TDF. The camera angle gives the impression there might be something wrong at this moment but that's not the case.

Honesty speaking, it's a bit hard for me to understand the 4 points difference (which is BTW not a minor difference). Looking to the detailed judge scores, I can see the gap is related to:
1) "Not touching Step Sequence" (V/M 11.74 and P/C 9.46)
2) "Partial Step Sequence" (V/M 9.46 and P/C 7.96)
Now, I don't see major mistakes with P/C step sequences but some of you may have some clue (please tell us)

Romain Haguenauer looks so badly surprised when the scores appear that he moves is head down to check the numbers on the other monitor. Then he moves again his head in the direction of Guillaume and asks in french "Non ?" (no need to translate I guess) and you can see Guillaume replying to Romain by nodding with a negative sign. Given the situation, I understand Guillaume is clearly disappointed by the scores.

I don't understand too the gap...
The disappointment is very visible on the face of Gabriella...I do not like seeing them sad. They understood that the notes would not be sufficient, I hope that they will succeed in surpassing this disappointment for the free and reduce a little the gap

 

[apple123]

I don't think it's that "stumble" caused the level drop. At the beginning of the non-touch step, when they just turn around, Gabriella clearly lost her edge. I think that's the problem.

 

[demarinis5]

V/M SD imo was brilliantly skated! I knew half way thru their SD that it was going to be a big score
because they were hitting all of their levels big time. P/C were excellent too but imo V/M outskated
them in this portion of the competition.

 

[all that]

The difficulty with ice dance is that many of the judges elements are not easy to see as a viewer over a tv screen. The tech panel has special screens where they can really see the required key points and edges. I really don't believe this was a biased panel. Ice dance now requires the edges to be really clean, and overall, v/m skated their SD with more precision than P/C. That's probably what made the difference. V/M probably went in with the idea that they would lose, and that their SD is where they could gain the most points against P/C, and so poured a ton of effort into it. I expect P/C will now do the same for GPF.

 

[Sugarpova]

"Appreciators" is good. "Admirers" would be more common. :yes:

And then there's 4everchan, aka "Big Daddy"....

bingo! thx a lot!
ugh Im frustrated when the right words dont come to my mind:gaah::hslap:


idk about invisible/ visible mistakes in ID but to my very amateur eye VM were visibly better this very day

 

[Sugarpova]

Haha, thanks! I discovered that Ashley Wagner's current FS almost perfectly matches "Feast of Starlight" from the Hobbit OST (which I've never actually seen, just found on YouTube ) and there was just no stopping me

u should totally watch!
Not on par with LOTR but great music, actors & prod design!
I Absolutely will check your vid!

 

[NoNameFace]

just watched top 6, more detailed comments will follow, but general thought is how many people are spitting their venoms towards Tessa and Scott not giving any logical argument, just calling them worse because of being Canadian, massively overscored (not taking into consideraion that this year's basic value is higher, so adding GOE the tech score will be higher than last year), calling this SD a comical parody of a dance, mechanical in execution and calling Tessa a 'jumberjack' and 'so techically weaker from Gabriella' aside of usual 'fat', 'too big for Scott' comments...

I am really no strange to have favourites, preferences or 'soft spots' towards some teams, but I always try to see the actual program and its execution/presentation from each team and then make my opinion over placements/scores. It appears that a lot of people can't do the same, just bashing Virtue/Moir because they won with (almost) everyone's sweethearts, Gabriella and Guillaume. Don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Papadakis/Cizeron's way of moving on ice, their 'minimal tools-big impact' philosophy and softness in presentation, but looking at SD programs this year and comparing these 2 SDs for me Virtue/Moir's is more bold, characteristic and 'impactful' whereas Papadakis/Cizeron's is more subdued with that classy sophistication, but does not have the same 'statement' factor as Canadians. Both teams are vastly different, especially looking at females - both women have great qualities, but that said both have entirely different way of performing/expressing themselves on ice - there is different kind of movement, different dynamic of expression and dynamic between partner. I think that these factors should be taken into consideration seeing both SDs and giving opinions about Gabriella/Tessa's performance, not ones about Tessa being fat/chunky/'jumberjack.

Another think read: V/M SD is all about making faces, waiving hands and ovet the top expression instead of actual skating. As I mentioned, both teams and both SDs are different and my opinion is that music and theme used by Tessa and Scott in SD is massively complimented by choreograhy performed - as Prince music is dynamic, sensual and a bit 'cheeky', all those hand moves, head gestures and their overall attitude/facial expression (especially Tessa's) makes it alive even more and really portrays it in the best way. Sure - it is not everyone's taste, but each program has its character and way of expression - more or less vivid - and it should be not overlooked looking at the actual performances.

Finally, I think that the problem could be the scale of scoring instead of Tessa and Scott being overscored - as there is higher BV in SD this year the scores are going a bit too nuts for me, but I do think, looking at both performances of those so different styles clashing in both teams, that the results are right with a right gap between both teams.

On a side note - the fashion extraordinaire award goes to Kaitlyn Hawayek, girl looked the best on the field: edgy, sophisticated and sexy at the same time

 

[keasus]

D/W's Foxtrot was not at all a Foxtrot, but a Waltz. They committed the cardinal sin of ice dancing, while at an Olympic games. Also, D/W had much less power and flow and all I notice from that SD of theirs is jumping on flats with shallower edges than V/M's current SD.

P/C could have taken the lead if they had not skated so cautiously and nervously. They didn't look great today.

D/W's SD record was going to broken eventually. If that "Foxtrot SD" is of any indication, their "record" would not have stood in the in the next quadrennial.

Comparing WRs from season to season is pointless due to the constant change in requirements and levels, as Mrs. P explained. But, can we have an ice dance discussion without your D/W vitriol? Jeez, you are getting predictable.

 

[olayolay]

Watch V/M's blues pattern vs. P/C's blues pattern, and it becomes obvious why they were the class of the field here. Matching lines vs lack of extension from Gabriella, far more ice coverage that Tessa almost ran into the boards, more speed and power into the pattern, skated close together while you could fit a minivan between P/C.

 

[sallycinnamon]

I don't know much about the rules of ice dance so I am not her for judging. I am just very happy that Tessa and Scott are currently on the first place, because I think their SD is very unique, sassy, and characteristic which was performed very well today. I really missed them in the last two seasons and so good that they are back. I just find their skating more innovative than anyone else's.:agree:

 

[moriel]

not a pro ice dance fan but...

When P/C skated their Mozart LP at worlds, I cried. But now i'm kinda getting... used... to it. This year, it already does not feel fresh anymore, unfortunately.
Also, on this specific competition, to my untrained eye, V/M looked sharper, while P/C left an impression that their SD needs a bit more mileage - it looked somehow unfinished yet.


Also, I think this is healthy for P/C, as now they have some real competition.

 

[cocotaffy]

just watched top 6, more detailed comments will follow, but general thought is how many people are spitting their venoms towards Tessa and Scott not giving any logical argument, just calling them worse because of being Canadian, massively overscored (not taking into consideraion that this year's basic value is higher, so adding GOE the tech score will be higher than last year), calling this SD a comical parody of a dance, mechanical in execution and calling Tessa a 'jumberjack' and 'so techically weaker from Gabriella' aside of usual 'fat', 'too big for Scott' comments...

Where did you read that ??? I don't remember seeing anything like this on GS or FSU. Most people seem to recognize V/M were better on the day and P/C lost because of levels.

 

[shyne]

The difficulty with ice dance is that many of the judges elements are not easy to see as a viewer over a tv screen. The tech panel has special screens where they can really see the required key points and edges. I really don't believe this was a biased panel. Ice dance now requires the edges to be really clean, and overall, v/m skated their SD with more precision than P/C. That's probably what made the difference. V/M probably went in with the idea that they would lose, and that their SD is where they could gain the most points against P/C, and so poured a ton of effort into it. I expect P/C will now do the same for GPF.

I noticed at SC this year that during the open practice for ice dance, almost the entire judging panel was siting at the back (~10 rows or so behind the seats for judges) for the entire practice. I was told that they are looking at the dance pattern from above. I wonder if that's something they do for every competition.

 

[olayolay]

Where did you read that ??? I don't remember seeing anything like this on GS or FSU. Most people seem to recognize V/M were better on the day and P/C lost because of levels.

Youtube.

 

[Astrid56]

D/W's Foxtrot was not at all a Foxtrot, but a Waltz. They committed the cardinal sin of ice dancing, while at an Olympic games. Also, D/W had much less power and flow and all I notice from that SD of theirs is jumping on flats with shallower edges than V/M's current SD.

P/C could have taken the lead if they had not skated so cautiously and nervously. They didn't look great today.

D/W's SD record was going to broken eventually. If that "Foxtrot SD" is of any indication, their "record" would not have stood in the in the next quadrennial.

I disagree. D/W did perform a Foxtrot. It looked like a Waltz. Technically, Foxtrot is done with a 'slow, quick, quick' rhythm, and they did just that while the Waltz is done with an up and down feel, more circular and fluid style. In ice-dancing, the waltz isn't particularly very evident but you can achieve greater fluidity and, of course, the gliding/rolling feel makes it more breezy.

 

[oat]

Oh don't read youtube you have always the same 3-4 crazy people who make 90% of commentaries. It doesn't mean that all fan of PC are crazy lol.
I'm a huge fan of PC and I reconize that VM deserves to be first at this SD. I like their Prince SD and i think P/C weren't not totaly "IN" their SD. I suppose they must change some thing now.

 

[daphenaxa]

after watching both programs, I am a bit sad. I guess it is clear who is gonna get pushed this year. I guess it is better this year than olympic year at least?

 

[4everchan]

i like both teams. is that possible nowadays to be a fan of both teams? well... i am...

I think, for the SD, there was a clear winner. The FD could be different. Other competitions could be different. Another year with another imposed rhythm could be different. I am thrilled for V/M. It's very important for them to show that they can win it all over again. As their fan, I am very pleased with their constant progress with their material.

Since the beginning of the year, as a PC fan, I feel that some sparkle is missing in both programs. I wish them to accept the setback to allow them to reach further and get better. With these two teams pushing one another, we could get back to the level of rivalry we had from Vancouver to Sochi which has been missing IMHO in ice dance since Sochi.

Regarding fans, well... it's up to fans from each team or those who are into both teams like I am to decide if they will enjoy great dancing or just get into their bias...