2016 Skate Canada Ladies FP | Page 62 | Golden Skate

2016 Skate Canada Ladies FP

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
To put it another way: instead of making us feel something and breaking our hearts through the choreography itself, it's using the 9/11 tragedy as a shortcut to give the program an emotional heft—that it doesn't actually earn...

But this is Averbukh's way. He put a little girl in a red coat for exactly the same reason...

I would love for this to be the end of Averbukh. Evgenia is so insanely talented that I would love to see her work with a far better choreographer. What about Dickson? Pillay? If they must have a Russian choreographer, there must be dozens of better choreographers than Averbukh available who would love to work with the World Champion.
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
But this is Averbukh's way. He put a little girl in a red coat for exactly the same reason...

I would love for this to be the end of Averbukh. Evgenia is so insanely talented that I would love to see her work with a far better choreographer. What about Dickson? Pillay? If they must have a Russian choreographer, there must be dozens of better choreographers than Averbukh available who would love to work with the World Champion.

Right but the little girl in the red coat was what was in the movie. I can get behind that, even if it's questionable in taste in the source material, at least it wasn't mutilated. This was, IMO, worse than that: just pulling sound from the movie about 9/11 and them making a crap program around it.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Medvedeva's 3T in her 3S+3T combo was blatantly underrotated. Yet, she doesn't get called for it.

This is a joke. It's bad enough she has a trash program.

Her program is almost as bad as the Marilyn Monroe program from Stranz & Fairchild' in the Blades of Glory movie.
 

beki

Medalist
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
I honestly had to stop watching Evgenia's program when the voices came in. Fifteen years is not that long ago. It's a raw, living memory for millions of Americans, including me. I don't understand why Averbukh appropriated our recent tragedy when he and his skater have no connection to it. Even if the program were better, I would still find the subject matter completely inappropriate. I didn't care for Ross Miner's Boston Strong program either, but because he is from Boston I at least understand why he did it.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Her program is almost as bad as the Marilyn Monroe program from Stranz & Fairchild' in the Blades of Glory movie.

Wow, I am not sure I am seeing or reading objective opinions or almost hatred. The program wasn't that horrible. Not m cup of tea but to be honest with the push technically the programs are kind of lost. Everything is about points regardless of program or music.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Sometimes I'm tired of figure skating fans.:eek:hwell:

Go Evgenia! You are a talented, cute, nice girl. After these hateful comments I really want to you beat everyone, everywhere, everytime!
 
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nolangoh

Steps and Spirals enthusiast
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Except its all OPINION. Just because you and others don't like Evgenia's presentation, artistry, doesn't mean she doesn't have any or the judges have to mark her low. Opinion is not fact or law

And the majority of skaters do have similar jump layouts and moves from season to season no matter what the music is so criticizing Evgenia alone on it is :rolleye:

And what did you do to qualify as a judges' judge?

Judges are supposed to be fair. They should give understandable, reasonable and convincing judgement. Of course if only I disagree with the results, it is just my subjective opinion. But if there is a huge disagreement between two groups of people, then I think there is a need to discuss. They have to convince each other and reach a consensus to give a fair result of the competition.

And my qualification of being a judge of the judges? Well, ISU judges are not that respectable and credible. They are famous for being the exact opposite, what happened in Salk Lake? Sochi? The only qualification of judging judges is our love to this sport.

Oh and also not for being bribed or block judging. Also a qualification for judging judges.
 
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Sweet Dream

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
I'm very uncomfortable with the subject of Evgenias program, the sirens, the voices came out very strangely and I feel Evgenia is above using stuff like that to elicit emotion from people. When the voices came on there were some people looking around because they weren't sure at first if it was part of the program.

:laugh: By editing music like this her choreographer does not intend to elicit emotions from people, but to create some sensation on the world stage, I think. Actually not many people take this theme that seriously.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Sometimes I'm tired of figure skating fans.:eek:hwell:

Go Evgenia! You are a talented, cute, nice girl. After these hateful comments I really want to you beat everyone, everywhere, everytime!

I would like to see Evgenia win everything too - at least until Liza is strong enough to take over as Queen again. ;)

But, I would like to see her do it with a different program.

Too much does this situation remind me of the disgrace of Domina and Shabilin's hideously offensive Aboriginal OD. Here, the RuFed have the opportunity to redeem themselves, to prove that they learned a lesson from the disgusting arrogance they showed then. Then, they arrogantly demanded that people not be offended and that they would not change it. Now, they have a chance to show they have learned.

And I want this for Evgenia's sake, too. Too many ignorant, foolish idiots will hate on her for this program, and not direct their ire at Averbukh. I do not want her to be hurt.
 

Johns

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
We can just agree on the obvious fact that program could have been better with a better thought through soundtrack. However, I dig the message and can't understand how it can be viewed as offensive. It's rather a very actual to the current issues in the world. And, yes, if Averbukh's message is "please stop violence" he picked the right topic and right metaphor, obvious symbol of the most tragic terrorist attack. Not because it's the biggest or the most tragic one, but because it was made such a symbol by our culture and media, so many people can relate to it. Not just Americans, but many other nationalities. So, it's a good idea and good tribute: the young girl waves goodbye to her husband/boyfriend/father/brother/friend (is it at home or at an airport, we don't know, it's upto personal interpretation) and some time later she sees all this horrendous newscasts and sounds. Hey we all been there. Almost the whole planet seen it, live, uncensored, with the same sounds and vivid explicit images and video snippets on our TVs. And the girl starts worrying about the person she just said goodbye without knowing would it her last goodbye, she can't find the place to calm down and restlessly rushes through variety of emotions ranging from hope, worry and fear. She runs, spins and jumps out her mind with anxiety. Until she receives that phone call and we left to guess was it a good news or bad ones. This is how i see it at least. Its really easy and straightforward. The whole concept is good. Now it's another story how it choreographed and performed. Could it be better? Yes. But judges loved it anyways, because I think they like that it sends such an important social message out there: please stop violence.

Ok. Lets draw anlogies here. Jsut for giggles. What message tries to send a girl who trying (or better yet: struggling) to portray a Firebird which looks more like a frozen chicken than a proud beautiful firebird caught by obnoxiously daring young peasant? Don't you think Russians can get offended by such poor interpretation of one of their popular farrytale from their ancient mythology. Firebird is a firebird, not the chaotic windmill as it sometimes portrayed. ;) The score by one of the most genius Russian composer - Stravinsky - deserves better interpretations and choreography. The great composer whose work was way ahead of his time, whose music shaped our modern electronic music, like house, trance, techno and etc. Instead of Firebird Russians see this - a frozen chicken? Would you expect them to be offended. Fair logic? =)

Or someone making a ballet piece to Anastasia myth and tragic story which is so sensitive to all modern Russians, when bolsheviks executed all Royal family, and only Russian princess Anastasia had allegedly (more like a myth) miraculously escaped and lived somewhere under fake name bellow the Soviet radar. It's one of their national great tragedy. Yet. Royal Ballet doing their version of ballet based on this events (the story of Anastasia). I think it's either McMillan or Wheeldon. We don't expect Russians to boycotting, booing or picketing in front of Royal Opera House, do we? And I am sure we can find more modern and recent examples and analogies like this. Btw, I heard recent cinematographic interpretation of War and Peace by BBC (was it 5 or 6 episode series in total?) was very favorably received by Russians. They said it get the essence, mentality and feel of Russia at that time, like when Moscovites were leaving the city the day before Napoleon was about to seize the city, they not only left their dear homes and estates behind, but set them on fire in desperate state of mind of helplessness and left in agony further east. Yet genius military man Napoleon was silly waiting the whole day for obedient and submissive citizens of Moscow to bring him the keys to the city as symbolic gesture of submission. You gotta be Russian to understand that barbaric act in the eyes of westerners of that time. What could have been easier: bring the keys to Napoleon, pledge submission and host French nobels, officers and soldiers in Moscow for a while, and pay some sort of taxes and contribution later on as a losing side. And keep living a cozy life in your cozy warm houses in Moscow. But nope, Russian mentality is different: it's better to burn your own house and all your expensive belongings when share it or give it to invaders. You gotta be Russian to understand this logic, but that how they are: they would rather starve to death than bow down. Heh. And this BBC's version got it right in the TV interpretation. Russians did not even lost their sleep over controversial insinuation of incest between brother and sister in the British version, even though to my knowledge it was not in the Tolstoy's book.

Or when someone skates to Russian Tschaikovsky, Musorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Scriabin, Glinka, Stravinsky, Schnittke or many other, we don't really expect Russians to get offended when skaters don't make a "proper interpretation" of particular music piece be it about struggle against tsarism, Stalin's repressions, gay rights and acceptance by society in old Russian Empire (see Tchaikovsky story) or other tragical event of their past or recent times. Would Russian gays be offended when the Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker music would be skated in "unsensitive and tacky way" and without proper consideration of depth of the music like Waltz of Flowers is actually his desperate cry for his dream, and the whole ballet is about transformation into somebody he really are and desperately wanted to be, despite of disapproval by society of those times. Yet we see another performance to yet another Tchaikovsky warhorse which looks might look like rather cheerful and upbeat choreography, which might seem strange because even though Nutcracker sounds like a very melodic, cheerfully and catered for kids, but there is a very good reason why the almost all of the score is composed in Minor. ;) Would we expect Russian gays to get offended by improper interpretation of Tchaikovsky too? Or by "improper" interpretation of music about tragic life of Prokofiev and Shostakovich under the tyranny of Stalin? Or Would American be offended if Russians would be dancing in "improper" way to rock'n'roll, swing, Madonna or Muse? Russians certainly giggle when westerner tries some Russian folks style dances, but they don't getting so vocal on silly forums and don't loose their sleep over that. :D

My point is simple: in the art and so called "beauty sport" such figure skating everything us up for grabs and interpretation. How it is successful and touching as an art is the whole another story. High marks and praise from judges are probably not for a quality of Averbukh's program, but may be it's just a message from FIS and judges to all coaches and skaters (international panel, I must say): "Hey, guys, this Averbukh's program might looks exploitive and tacky, but this is the direction we want all of you to go. The more talented people will be pushing there the less tacky and pretentious it will get over time. We, as figure skating communtiy, need to be more actual and contemporaneous with currents, may be to send a good social message, a simple and nice story. No reason to butcher Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninov all the time." Just my humble speculations. There is probably a good reason why modern music and voiceovers were made allowed. The FIS is trying to stay current, modern and more popular among average Joes aka consumers. No reason for a young girl to pretend to be beautiful ballerina to portray a Firebird, if as a result the public sees NOT the nice performance on the greatest music by Igor Stravinsky and revolutionary ballet choreography by Fokine or Dyagilev, but Gracie's "frozen chicken" instead. No disrespect to undoubted talent of Ms Gold. :)

I know Russian probably giggle when they see such interpretations of Firebird. :) Especially when Russians are known to be so anal when it comes to saving their traditions and culture to pass it to future generations. They carry every little detail and nuances by having older generation of performers/dancers training young ones by meticulous coaching and countless hours of rehearsing until every little thing will be right. Compare just this small video of tutoring by great Andris Liepa with some of the multiple Firebirds we saw in the recent decad: http://youtu.be/ZIE0pJEgs3U
Russkie probably giggle to all our "frozen chickens", because they know the standards, but they don't get offended if non-Russian performer or choreographer are not delivering it in a god way. So why not allow Averbukh to take a swipe at 9/11 tragedy and see how it develops and comes out. Judges certainly excited, as it's at least a fresh breath for them after all those countless warhorses in the last 50 years or so. :) The more understandable figure skating will get to average consumer the better (and more $$ into sport too), the quality of all "modern" performances will get better. Ashley, Keytlin and Zhenya are pushing it forward good. I don't mean that classic music, or jazz, or musicals should go away from this sport, but ideally it should be like 50/50, not like approx 80/20 as it is now. And trust me most judges are very knowledgeable in ballet and they would rather go to ABT, Bolshoi, Mariinsky or ROH to see professional ballet dancers then sit through yet another warhorsey "frozen chicken". Judges/FIS are sending the subliminal message: programs should be more interesting, fun and help FIS to reach more people. It's simple as that. Why Ashley Wagner, Averbukh and few others got it, and others don't.... hmmmmm

This is approximately how I see it.

The program could be better, yep. But
how good Averbukh is (or is not) we will see in Olympic year, when it matter the most. Last Olympic he was right on the money with his Shindler List and Yulia. Everything felt right into places back then I must say. For a now, this year, he just making yet another controversial and provocative splash with this Med's program of his, but judges dig it. Go figure.

Yes, Russians are annoyed about awful interpretation of Russian music, especially when one is not up to skating to a masterpeace, but they don't go bitching around.
 

Silvia451

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Country
Romania
The first time I really loved Miyahara. :agree2: To me, it was the highlight of the evening. I'm not saying she should have got higher scores, some jumps were probably underrotated, but to me it was a joy to watch.
 

MidnightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
If Osmond had done Evgenia's program some of you would have said "what a moving tribute" it was.
Why pour hate on the most talented girl in the event other than for the reason she was better than your favourite.
Kaitlyn got a massive score despite falling on her backside. The judges were clearly over-scoring her. Just be thankful for that.
Why do some feel the need to trash a skater so badly ?. It happened with Sotnikova & now Medvedeva.
Sometimes I wonder why some watch skating. They only want to be nasty & probably "pray" for some skaters to fall.
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
The podium was right even if the scores weren't. I was responding to the idea that Osmond's scores were inflated just so the could inflate Evgenia's. Kaetlyn was going to get inflated scores no matter who the competition was because she was the home town girl just as Ashley did at Skate America and just as the Russian girls are bound to get at their own.

Well, the hometown girl placed 11th last year at SC...there are no guarantees. Comparing the 2, Osmond had the competition of her life, skating lights out to 2 PB's after a 2 year struggle to get back to this performance level. Ashley skated a sp with a downgrade and a sub-par lp, ...their pathways to the podium and what was earned or gifted, are very different.
 
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[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Sometimes I'm tired of figure skating fans.:eek:hwell:

Go Evgenia! You are a talented, cute, nice girl. After these hateful comments I really want to you beat everyone, everywhere, everytime!

What is her winning streak, I wonder. Yes, there was a stumble at last year CoR with a silver but other than that how many competitions she already won at least starting season 2014-15? 10, 15? If it were not for this particular program people would find another excuse for bashing like they did last season. The pretext here is just very convenient - no need to devise "scientific" arguments. I am glad that judges sent a clear message here and if she does not suffer from puberty and start to make mistakes she will be invincible this season. I see no one else beating 220. Only if Mao brings back 3A and overcomes UR. And next season there will be other programs - Olympic year. May be Eteri will decide to not risk with the topics - may be she will trust Averbukh another time after the success of SL and with the belief that Zhenya simply does not have competition in the current field.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
The theme of Evgenia's program aside (I wouldn't have known about it, if I hadn't read this forum) I think the program is boring, too similar to last year - and while I like the slower piano stuff, not as moving as last years program about the deaf girl, with that real connection to Tuberidze's daughter. And then not much happens besides the jumps. Reminded me a bit of Boyang Jin last season. Jump after jump after jump. She deserves this win, she is the most talented technically right now, that's true. But is she really that superior at the other elements? How cruel that must seem to other skaters who get not only dinged at the technical, but also PCS. Also - no sign of puberty trouble so far. I think awarding Evgenia the olympic gold is too early. 2018 is far and who knows....
 

yuki

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
If Osmond had done Evgenia's program some of you would have said "what a moving tribute" it was.

Um, no. The program's concept and choreo are bad in themselves, nothing to do with Evgenia.
Blaming all criticism of this program, no matter how valid, on jealousy or anti-Russian sentiment is starting to get old. At some point you'll have to start wondering why Evgenia's programs last season, when she was still: a. Russian and b. winning (almost) everything in sight, did not provoke such strong reactions.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
The first time I really loved Miyahara. :agree2: To me, it was the highlight of the evening. I'm not saying she should have got higher scores, some jumps were probably underrotated, but to me it was a joy to watch.

She has a lot of really nice qualities and above all current skaters she probably displays the most ease and grace of movement. That combined with one of the best Layback spins in the game leaves us a lot of enjoyable moments. I do fear that the tech panels are going to pick on her extra hard this year. I'm surprised TBH because as much as I've fought the she's so underscored whispers I never really thought she was as overscored as to what it looks like the TP's are going to do to her this season and I think she'll be lucky to score the same scores she got last season. On the flip side it's sort of weird to see programs with Falls that can score over 200pts when all is said and done. That was unheard of just two seasons ago and more evidence as to why no one should consider PB, WR, and SB as a reflection of anything the skater did but far more idiciative of the entire judging panel. I wish I had some slow motion footage of the judges entering in their scores so I could make an awesome video edit of the true stars of the sport keying in +3's and 9.50 component scores set to some 80's power ballad :cool2:

Zhenia is so consistent and skates the most difficult programs but I'm not sure what to make of her essentially being spotted 2-3 falls over the rest of the field. I'm just not thinking she is that far ahead of everyone else and to the point that mistakes don't give other skater's what I feel would be a fair shot of staying competitive :handw:

I'd love it if all the Zhenia haters out there would instead cast their shade on Ilya :devil: :popcorn:
 
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MidnightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Um, no. The program's concept and choreo are bad in themselves, nothing to do with Evgenia.
Blaming all criticism of this program, no matter how valid, on jealousy or anti-Russian sentiment is starting to get old. At some point you'll have to start wondering why Evgenia's programs last season, when she was still: a. Russian and b. winning (almost) everything in sight, did not provoke such strong reactions.
Because she beat Osmond in Skate Canada, that's why.
Plus, I'm sure many were hoping that this season she would fall apart when clearly she is maturing nicely.
Much of it IS anti-Russian. That alone is "getting old".
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
The theme of Evgenia's program aside (I wouldn't have known about it, if I hadn't read this forum) I think the program is boring, too similar to last year - and while I like the slower piano stuff, not as moving as last years program about the deaf girl, with that real connection to Tuberidze's daughter. And then not much happens besides the jumps. Reminded me a bit of Boyang Jin last season. Jump after jump after jump. She deserves this win, she is the most talented technically right now, that's true. But is she really that superior at the other elements? How cruel that must seem to other skaters who get not only dinged at the technical, but also PCS. Also - no sign of puberty trouble so far. I think awarding Evgenia the olympic gold is too early. 2018 is far and who knows....

The matter of tastes - I did not find the program boring. Quite the opposite in fact - it was like watching a dramatic short movie. She may become a good actress post FS, I think. No one else was close to that last night. The only other person who told me a story rather than skating from one element to another was Satoko. I am accused sometimes as being too pro-Russian. I dismiss that. And I would say plain and simple that Liza looked ridiculous in her outfit and I saw no Cleopatra but the very same Liza doing her usual routine. Why they went that route I don't know.

And yes, I agree we don't know how she is going to be affected by the growth. She will be 17 next month. Radionova's issues started when she hit 17. But Anna P. seems to cope with the growth. Then we have Yulia. Well, it's not clear. Medvedeva may be at the peak of the growth issues during the Olympics - or she may be immune to them. I hope for the latter.
 
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