2016 Trophée de France Free Dance

[4everchan]

A conversation about Montreal without me and Gina Vanneli. I've always said to my friends here in Ca. that Canada is like 3 different Countries rolled into 1. Unlike the US, where the Dialect may change, the language however, does not. Our tour of Canada was so spectacular and there are still parts and places that I can see as clear as day even though I haven't been back since 2010. I still say that best looking Men that I saw were in Saskkatchewan. Plus, I loved the way they talked.

How popular is Banff with Canadians? I loved that town and it reminded of Telluride Colorado. There were some Big Canadian Men in that town. In fact, the way I met the guy I "hung out" with for the majority of our tour said......"That's good coffee, Eh." In a shop on the main street and that was it.....

LOL who is that ? Gina?? hehe nice typo

ermmm mrrice... you know that Canada has two official languages right? and In British Columbia, I'd like you to visit Richmond where Patrick intends to have his skating school... Cantonese is probably the most spoken language there. And finally, I hope that one day you meet Kaetlyn... She's from NFLD... they speak a language almost foreign to me and it's fun to hear!
Saskatchewan???? What???? I was miserable when I went there... I was performing there and sigh... I couldn't find any eye candy.... so disheartening... I feel like we have visited two different countries LOL

Banff is very popular. I see... mrrice is easy pickings HEHE everyone loves a chocolate smurf

 

[mrrice]

Saved By 4everchan for like.....the 10th time. Gina Vannelli is Gino's long lost sister.........:disapp:

 

[4everchan]

same hair i recall

Saved By 4everchan for like.....the 10th time. Gina Vannelli is Gino's long lost sister.........:disapp:

 

[whatif]

Not a big fan this year's FD from P/C, but they are still way ahead of everyone else. I personally would put G/P, first in FD.

 

[mrrice]

same hair i recall

I always thought Jennifer Beals could have been Gino's little sister back in the 80's Jennifer:http://img2.rnkr-static.com/list_img_v2/2582/102582/870/best-jennifer-beals-movies-u1.jpg Gino:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/91/8b/9f/918b9f5248eb1d7b302652957af9cd9e.jpg

 

[MarieM]

Honestly, there really isn't anything risky about P/C's programs for the last few years. Woodkid? Yes. Pink Floyd? Yes. But the last three programs have simply grafted on some modern/contemporary dance vocabulary onto traditional styles. I'm excited about P/C as remarkable performers. I am not particularly excited by their FDs. Even the Mozart program, which was beautiful, was essentially a carbon copy transcription of a preexisting dance number. The only risk it contained was the possibility they might be sued by its original dance choreographer for wholesale robbery.

Angelin Preljocaj knows about the parc in ice dance and loved what they did with it still saying it really was not Le Parc considering "L'envol" should last 1 minute at least. Find another thing to say because it's not working.

And whoever said Piper&Paul were lowballed is so right. They should have finished second, they were the second best on the ice hands down. They skate on hold and on edges.
Madison and Zach are ... well skating small and slower than before. And that FD is absolutly wrong on them.

 

[viennaskater]

Nothing is more disappointing than seeing an arguably best (or at least top 5) dancers of her time no longer have any shot at OGM. Both of them look so sloppy today, even I can see it. Their music seems like what people think is Bollywood.

Why do a free dance with this theme, when it has already been done by other couples, with more success? And it seems that some Russian ice dancers have a tendency to be old-fashioned, whereas as couples from US/Canada are like a breath of fresh air with their often innovative approach. Having said that, the Ukrainian couple today were outstandingly quirky (but then that is Ukraine, not Russia).

Anyone remember that FD a few years ago from Bobrova/Soloviev which was such an old-fashioned stinker that they dropped it half-way through the season and went back to doing a previous one (man with a harmonica)?

 

[rollerblade]

omg loooool. But I really do wish P/C tried something new this year. If they continue this style until next season (pretty sure they will), that would be 4 years of similar programs.

Totally. P/C should have done a Krump FD this year. Maybe they are saving that for the Olympic season.

 

[royce]

Totally. P/C should have done a Krump FD this year. Maybe they are saving that for the Olympic season.

lmao yes and add in more closed holds. Their first closed hold for their current FD comes in at the 1:00 mark

 

[sowcow]

RE: Gilles & Poirier's FD

Literally zero Tango feel in that Tango routine. WTH

are you addressing Piper and Paul's FD? If yes, that's your opinion, but for litteral tango stuff known by averange person who did not have any contact with Argentine Tango style of dancing and choreography please go re-watch Stepanova/Bukin FD or wait for Sinitsina/Katsalapov FD - there you'll have red dress, grabing faces and being over the top to the max

I guess your knowledge about "tango stuff" is richer than my roommate who's the one who said their program has zero spanish feel or flair to it, who is a dance major in UCLA and latina herself. Sorry I had to show her your comment because it was so hilarious

@Kittosuni

Does your Latina roommate truly study as a dance major at UCLA??

Admittedly, G/P's performance was much better at SkateCanada, nevertheless there's still a definite, authentic Argentinian tango feel/flair to their performance here at TEB! Anyone who's seen Argentine Tango Street Dancers will immediately recognize the choreographic spirit used to design and create G/P's FD.

Ask your roommate to watch G/P's SkateCanada performance — I'd like to know if she still feels the same?

 

[4everchan]

RE: Gilles & Poirier's FD







@Kittosuni

Does your Latina roommate truly study as a dance major at UCLA??

Admittedly, G/P's performance was much better at SkateCanada, nevertheless there's still a definite, authentic Argentinian tango feel/flair to their performance here at TEB! Anyone who's seen Argentine Tango Street Dancers will immediately recognize the choreographic spirit used to design and create G/P's FD.

Ask your roommate to watch G/P's SkateCanada performance — I'd like to know if she still feels the same?

the tango is so obvious in their dance that we could guess what style it is without music.... just the opening moves when they are about to start screams tango.... then of course, dance spin... that's a figure skating move... but right into the step sequence, the intricate leg extensions and the smaller steps also evoke tango...

am i the only one to point out too that her latina roommate says that there's no Spanish flair to the tango while tango is Argentinian????

 

[NoNameFace]

after watching top 4 FDs several times I finally got my thoughts together (I hope)

Elena and Ruslan...Harsh maybe, but can't help the feeling that they're regressing in every area: technically, performance-wise (PCS says otherwise...), choreography/expression-wise. What was refreshing, vivid and exciting two years ago now is caricaural, over thetop and dated. They looked really labored, stiff and uninspiring for me, there was attempt to look like and feel like Bollywood, but it was a far cry from it. Aside of heaviness of execution, hitches and gliches all over the place, I really don't think that the program performed even cleanly would be better - there is someing dated and almost tacky on the border of pastiche in it for me, I can't help it...OTT facial expression on Elena's side is really painful to watch at times and her costume is not flattering at all,I'd suggest something blue or red with gold trimming/embelishments, more simple in design, sari-like, not this mumu-ish style. Music does any favor for them too I feel - it is too repetitive and one-dimentional, there should be more range to show dancers better, their performance. I feel like they have to now re-estabilish their tech basis,get more fluidity and ease with perfoming choreos, then re-think both programs, because regardless of Elena's performance abilities and Ruslan's best efforts to sell programs, they are feeling generic, dated and sluggish, there is nothing 'now' about them for me which is a shame especially about Bollywood FD which should be a breath of novelty across the field this year where 50 shades of modern/contemporary/lyrical stuff is happening.

Madison and Zach - I know I'm in minority, but I totally don't feel this FD for them...I get that they want to capture the moment, create a feel, 'atmosphere' of love, but is all seems a bit too forced,to litteral for me. There goes similar problem with music like in SD - it's too busy for me, to many parts which makes the program 'choppy' and not fluid. The choreography is too much about holding hands, gazing at each other and face touching, but it's probably considered as desirable in 'Love'-themed program, it's just not my taste. I mean - they do create a pleasant picture, have tech stability to carry on with good scores, but comparing their FD skated back-to-back with Piper and Paul I can't help but see how big the difference is between them in terms of originality, sophistication levels, edge work, choreo construction and the general perfromance feel on Psquared favour. Guess I'm just disappointed about them beating Piper and Paul, but hat's the way in subjective world of ice dance we have to live in.

Piper and Paul - I've already expressed my deepest love and adoration towards their both programs this year and this time - despite of bit more cautious perfromance overall that SC - was no difference. I just love this kind of programs which keeps you glued to the screen and o the edge of your seat - intense chemistry and sharpness in movements, all packed within this magical, original and innovative choreography which is as close to Argentine tango style as it could be on ice. It's not litteral, it's not expected, it's not traditional, so it won't be everyone's pleaser, but I feel like it does not intent to be as such - from past few seasons they are going their own path, not really paying attention to 'trends' mostly set by Papadakis/Cizeron, but constantly working on technique, innovation and transforming something totally 'ice dance unfriendly' to great vehicles for them and for them only. This is what I appreaciate the most along with their ability to get into the role and portray the story with such dedication and confidence. There goes also their versatility and range in performance - actually a very few teams could pull of successfully both energetic and lyrical stuff. As WeaPo will probably grab silver this week and get to the GPF, my heart is already broken not to see Piper and Paul in France as duo with best set of programs this year for me...

Gabriella and Guillaume - this was the FD which I've had the most problems with about forming my opinion to be honest. On one note - the performance, movement and expression, an overall picture created were ethrereal and mesmerizing as their last two years outings. There is a sense of modernity on a verge of contemporary dancing mixed with ballet flare watching them, this is their signature style for sure which brought them success and now gets to be copied in various form by other camps. There is smoothness, continuity, technical expertie in elements performed - no doubt about that. But on another note...I don't even how to put this concern into words, but I really wish this FD would have more 'substance' - I don't know, maybe more story put in it, more emotional package, more 'something'...At this point it feels like this is a beautiful picture created, but without any identity - I get that a lot of you will tell that this is the way they're skating, this is their style, but for me something this year is missing there. I feel like Mozart FD in 2014/15 was a discovery, 'Rain in your black eyes/To buid a home' FD in 2015/16 was a confirmation, a manifesto of their direction and now there is a sense of misopportunity and 'accidentality' in that FD for me. It is somehow unbalanced and too rushed, but it might be only my perception about its construction. On a side note - after reading discussion about them doing third same FD in a row and not getting any different direction for Olympc gold secure I feel that with such solid, estabilished high appreciation for their skating, with such strong technically yet effortless way of performing they are more than safe to experiment and breach into other musical/style territory in their choices. Of course, that's their choice, but I can't help but wonder how they would look in other type of program and honestly I have no doubts they could pull of for example some classical baroque music or some Rodrigo y Gabriella guitar stuff. Looking at diversity Piper and Paul are showing each year with their programs in terms of rhythms, styles chosen with so much success in pulling them off I really wish Gabriella and Guillaume would show us their magnificence in some other type of program - I think everyone would benefit from it.

 

[4everchan]

:agree: ^^^:agree: you are not alone.. i have pretty much the same thoughts.

 

[ancientpeas]

the tango is so obvious in their dance that we could guess what style it is without music.... just the opening moves when they are about to start screams tango.... then of course, dance spin... that's a figure skating move... but right into the step sequence, the intricate leg extensions and the smaller steps also invoke tango...

am i the only one to point out too that her latina roommate says that there's no Spanish flair to the tango while tango is Argentinian????

Probably meant latin flair.

I like G/P and find it very much a tango but I hardly consider myself an expert. It would be interesting to ask the dance majoring latina what about it wasn't what she thought it should be. Maybe she has a point. How can we know as the OP never said what exactly the friend thought was wrong with it.

I'd also point out that even to my untrained eye none of the hiphop dances really scream hiphop to me. When I watch hiphop dancing that's not what it looks like to me. Maybe Charlie White is right and hiphop doesn't really mesh well with ID. I do like some of the musical choices it's brought it, though.

 

[rain]

the tango is so obvious in their dance that we could guess what style it is without music.... just the opening moves when they are about to start screams tango.... then of course, dance spin... that's a figure skating move... but right into the step sequence, the intricate leg extensions and the smaller steps also invoke tango...

am i the only one to point out too that her latina roommate says that there's no Spanish flair to the tango while tango is Argentinian????

I wonder if the roommate actually likes skating, and ice dance in particular? That certainly plays a part. No ice dance version of a floor dance is going to look totally authentic, just by nature of the change in venue. Some will always look at the ice version and pick at it for not being what would be performed on the floor. It's a different medium. Then there are simply differing opinions. So one latina dance major doesn't like it...I bet you'd find a bunch that do. Personally, I find G/P's tango to be very effective and one of the best tangos put on ice. For me it captures a wonderfully Argentinian tango flavour — and I was prepared to not be particularly impressed, as I don't normally enjoy a 4.5 minute completely tango free dance.

One opinion from one latina dance major certainly hasn't changed that opinion, nor do I think her opinion more valid than mine, though certainly the poster's intention seems to have been to shut down discussion by holding this person up as the expert last word on the subject due to her vocation and ethnic background.

 

[peepsquick]

I think you look at it from the wrong perspective. This ice dance couple is working on a new way of doing ice dance (for the FD), going away from the traditional ballroom dancing based on the many coded rules of the genre. They are coming from an artistic perspective, based on a lot of reflection on how to best evoke feelings, emotions using this wonderful medium that is ice and ice dance. I also personally don't want to be told the story behind a piece. We should be able to just "feel" it working or not. For me, it works. But then, I am not a big fan of ballroom dancing. To constrained by how things should look like or conform to. I also don't expect an artist an change his/her style each time they perform, be it a painting or a story. This is not how art work and they are artists. To each viewer is preference.

 

[4everchan]

I wonder if the roommate actually likes skating, and ice dance in particular? That certainly plays a part. No ice dance version of a floor dance is going to look totally authentic, just by nature of the change in venue. Some will always look at the ice version and pick at it for not being what would be performed on the floor. It's a different medium. Then there are simply differing opinions. So one latina dance major doesn't like it...I bet you'd find a bunch that do. Personally, I find G/P's tango to be very effective and one of the best tangos put on ice. For me it captures a wonderfully Argentinian tango flavour — and I was prepared to not be particularly impressed, as I don't normally enjoy a 4.5 minute completely tango free dance.

One opinion from one latina dance major certainly hasn't changed that opinion, nor do I think her opinion more valid than mine, though certainly the poster's intention seems to have been to shut down discussion by holding this person up as the expert last word on the subject due to her vocation and ethnic background.

that's what we call a sophism... a fallacious argument, especially one used deliberately to deceive. there are many kinds... like the "evocation of an expert who would know better than us" in order to shut us down.. when we do all have a pair of eyes and enough brain cells to see if it looks like a tango or not

 

[viennaskater]

Regarding Gabriella and Guillaume - much as I adore this year's FD, I would like to see them do something more upbeat like the 'Woodkid' one, which STILL gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. They would for sure pull it off successfully because their technical skills and chemistry on the ice is so sublime.

 

[MIM]

I think you look at it from the wrong perspective. This ice dance couple is working on a new way of doing ice dance (for the FD), going away from the traditional ballroom dancing based on the many coded rules of the genre. They are coming from an artistic perspective, based on a lot of reflection on how to best evoke feelings, emotions using this wonderful medium that is ice and ice dance. I also personally don't want to be told the story behind a piece. We should be able to just "feel" it working or not. For me, it works. But then, I am not a big fan of ballroom dancing. To constrained by how things should look like or conform to. I also don't expect an artist an change his/her style each time they perform, be it a painting or a story. This is not how art work and they are artists. To each viewer is preference.

I agree with you on P/C's impact to the figure skating- aestheticism on ice; no doubt their movement to the music is breathtakingly beautiful free from traditional/classic dance rules and codes as you mentioned. Also, maybe their genre can not be simplified within the contemporary or lyrical so easily. Because their programs from 2014-2015, 2015-2016, as well as today's gala are distinguished from each other by different theme, tone of the music, relationship between them not by the genre. Maybe defining a program by genre not by what is in it is too old fashioned.


However, I also find the other posters' point valid. His long lines and her deep eyes do not necessarily constitute a romance. When their tools are used to create a clear theme like in their previous FDs, they produce a masterpiece. Let me repeat my thoughts in the earlier post; they started with brilliant piano piece. It was very solemn, calm, abstract, explosive in some part. The tension builds up. After a spin and a pause, I hear a familiar melody. I get a flash back of one of their old programs, which has nothing to do with what they have been building in the first half. Still, they move beautifully, but without a destination. Relying on beauty, skating to seemingly an old music cut, lost concept makes me feel the second half redundant, vague, and weak.

As a designer, I was taught to open to other fields of design, too; book design, architecture, furniture design, etc. You respect each specialty, but exchange genuine ideas about composition, image, texture, etc... (One of my favorite critics to my studio happened to be a film director.) Dance shares a basic perspective with other art disciplines like what looks good regardless it is classic or modern, or ballroom. Your idea/concept/intent/theme- which does not have to be a story and can be a photo image- has to be concise and clear. It makes creative process way more productive.

Gabriella and Guillaume - this was the FD which I've had the most problems with about forming my opinion to be honest. On one note - the performance, movement and expression, an overall picture created were ethrereal and mesmerizing as their last two years outings. There is a sense of modernity on a verge of contemporary dancing mixed with ballet flare watching them, this is their signature style for sure which brought them success and now gets to be copied in various form by other camps. There is smoothness, continuity, technical expertie in elements performed - no doubt about that. But on another note...I don't even how to put this concern into words, but I really wish this FD would have more 'substance' - I don't know, maybe more story put in it, more emotional package, more 'something'...At this point it feels like this is a beautiful picture created, but without any identity - I get that a lot of you will tell that this is the way they're skating, this is their style, but for me something this year is missing there. I feel like Mozart FD in 2014/15 was a discovery, 'Rain in your black eyes/To buid a home' FD in 2015/16 was a confirmation, a manifesto of their direction and now there is a sense of misopportunity and 'accidentality' in that FD for me. It is somehow unbalanced and too rushed, but it might be only my perception about its construction. On a side note - after reading discussion about them doing third same FD in a row and not getting any different direction for Olympc gold secure I feel that with such solid, estabilished high appreciation for their skating, with such strong technically yet effortless way of performing they are more than safe to experiment and breach into other musical/style territory in their choices. Of course, that's their choice, but I can't help but wonder how they would look in other type of program and honestly I have no doubts they could pull of for example some classical baroque music or some Rodrigo y Gabriella guitar stuff. Looking at diversity Piper and Paul are showing each year with their programs in terms of rhythms, styles chosen with so much success in pulling them off I really wish Gabriella and Guillaume would show us their magnificence in some other type of program - I think everyone would benefit from it.

I agree with you @NoNameFace.

 

[peepsquick]

I understand what both of you say but I do see them searching and developing their own style. If you look back at their junior piece or even first senior piece, there is technical maestria but not much more. They are in the process of finding their own voice and it takes time: they are very young and have been catapulted to the top of the podium as soon as they started to work on projecting a new vision of ice dance. They are a rare combination of enthusiasm and sophistication. We hold them to higher standards than seasoned seniors. Give them time!