2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[Spirals for Miles]

Oh my, so awkward... Goncharenko is there. Valeriia must be her student? But so awkward for her and Lena...

 

[Bluediamonds09]

It means that she's done, right?

It must be that puberty monster finally catching up with her



She makes noticeable (for average person) errors so rarely that even step-outs or bobbles after jumps etch out into people's mind as falls or at least their memory becomes distorted like this after some time as they remember ''some error''. Yes, I remember reading repetitive reminiscences of ''fall'' in this or that competition only to find out there was no fall. So Zhenya's falls in actual competition are phantom like for the most part.

Has any skater ever had such a long streak of consecutive wins? The last time she lost - 2 years ago.

I didn’t post that to say that evgenia is done. I posted that because evgenia is so perfect 95% of the time, even in practice, that when she falls, it’s news. I’ve grown so used to her landing absolutely everything that I was surprised to find out that she fell. I almost believe she isn’t human.
Evgenia is not done. She’ll win this weekend.

 

[Shayuki]

It means that she's done, right?

It must be that puberty monster finally catching up with her



She makes noticeable (for average person) errors so rarely that even step-outs or bobbles after jumps etch out into people's mind as falls or at least their memory becomes distorted like this after some time as they remember ''some error''. Yes, I remember reading repetitive reminiscences of ''fall'' in this or that competition only to find out there was no fall. So Zhenya's falls in actual competition are phantom like for the most part.

Has any skater ever had such a long streak of consecutive wins? The last time she lost - 2 years ago.

Well, Medvedeva's lutz is a pretty glaring error to me. It sticks out like a sore thumb in her programs, unfortunately. It's a relatively minor flaw but it's one of the more obvious ones for the high caliber seniors for sure. Her lutz height also is extremely low, though that's not such a big problem I guess and might not be as noticeable. The good thing is that unlike some skaters, Medvedeva recognizes this weakness and only performs a single lutz in total.

Now, when it comes to falls, yeah it's pretty crazy how consistent Medvedeva has managed to be. To be fair though, she's not really been challenged in a way where she'd have to really push herself. She's mostly been competing against herself and the record books. One thing about Medvedeva is that she's very close to peaking when it comes to her technical content, at least with the tools she currently possesses. Her 2A is relatively weak(her worst jump, least favorite jump and her last competitive fall) so she has no prospects for performing a 3A. She also barely has a Lutz and really can't repeat it in programs, which hurts TES a little. She might be able to add a loop combo but that too is a bit of a work in progress. And ultimately, even thats benefit is less than that of just adding a second lutz would be.

She might be able to get away with it for now, but it'll be very interesting to see how Zagitova is able to challenge her with her quite clearly superior technical content. And the new 3A/quad juniors getting promoted to seniors will eventually be very interesting to see as well. However, as of now Medvedeva really is without equal in ladies and Zagitova just doesn't have enough time to establish herself as a serious threat before the olympics(Though I'd like that to be the case).


Now, an angle to look at could well be that they're going to try hard to push Zagitova as a rival for Medvedeva as it might be boring to have a completely dominant victory in the olympics. So if this is the case, Zagitova might establish her sooner than expected - It remains to be seen.

 

[kwanatic]

Now, an angle to look at could well be that they're going to try hard to push Zagitova as a rival for Medvedeva as it might be boring to have a completely dominant victory in the olympics. So if this is the case, Zagitova might establish her sooner than expected - It remains to be seen.

There is a rather large gap b/w Medvedeva and Zagitova and there should be. Zagitova is a jumping phenom but her overall performance level is rather average to me. The real lack of maturity in her skating is in her performance and presentation. Evgenia is 100% invested in her programs and performs extremely well; I find Alina to be rather flat in her delivery of her programs. There are no levels to her performance emotionally; she just kinda smiles and skates, which I suppose is okay b/c she is rather young, but that's where the separation b/w her, Evgenia and a number of other skaters lies.

I'm really hoping the judges make Zagitova work for the PCS, particularly in PE and IN. She'll still be a major threat/tough person to beat b/c she can outscore everyone in TES but I hope the judges don't start off giving her mid 30s/low 70s in PCS right out of the gate. I'd like to see her improve in those areas before the judges throw those scores her way.

 

[silverfoxes]

Oh my, so awkward... Goncharenko is there. Valeriia must be her student? But so awkward for her and Lena...

I don't think it's nearly as dramatic as you make it out to be. They obviously must cross paths at CSKA anyway and skaters change coaches all the time - these situations are bound to happen. The skating world is tiny. Unless it was one of those breakups like Gracie & Frank, or Yulia & Eteri (which it wasn't), I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[atsumiri]

these 2 errors on flips during runthru were the only mistakes Evgenia made at the time of all practice.
She also did some 3lo3lo and 3f3lo
and crazy among of 333
Evgenia is just fine.

 

[madison]

There is a rather large gap b/w Medvedeva and Zagitova and there should be. Zagitova is a jumping phenom but her overall performance level is rather average to me. The real lack of maturity in her skating is in her performance and presentation. Evgenia is 100% invested in her programs and performs extremely well; I find Alina to be rather flat in her delivery of her programs. There are no levels to her performance emotionally; she just kinda smiles and skates, which I suppose is okay b/c she is rather young, but that's where the separation b/w her, Evgenia and a number of other skaters lies.

I'm really hoping the judges make Zagitova work for the PCS, particularly in PE and IN. She'll still be a major threat/tough person to beat b/c she can outscore everyone in TES but I hope the judges don't start off giving her mid 30s/low 70s in PCS right out of the gate. I'd like to see her improve in those areas before the judges throw those scores her way.

Alina might be childish but at least she's authentic out there and that's part of her charm, in opposition to Med who has always this false acting and superficial expression of the music.

 

[hippomoomin]

Certain level of acting is needed to project to the audience. Evgenia's acting appears to be genuine to me, no less genuine than Ashley Wagner. Even the great Mao acts with exaggeration. Evgenia's problem though, is it is not clear why she has those facial expressions in relation to the music, especially in the SP. Her expressions in the AK program is related to the story, but not in the one she ditched.

Alina might be childish but at least she's authentic out there and that's part of her charm, in opposition to Med who has always this false acting and superficial expression of the music.

 

[madison]

Certain level of acting is needed to project to the audience. Evgenia's acting appears to be genuine to me, no less genuine than Ashley Wagner. Even the great Mao acts with exaggeration. Evgenia's problem though, is it is not clear why she has those facial expressions in relation to the music, especially in the SP. Her expressions in the AK program is related to the story, but not in the one she ditched.

I think it's a difference between feeling the music and expressing it through your own personality and just acting, executing some previously learned movements.

 

[Lily flowers]

Certain level of acting is needed to project to the audience. Evgenia's acting appears to be genuine to me, no less genuine than Ashley Wagner. Even the great Mao acts with exaggeration. Evgenia's problem though, is it is not clear why she has those facial expressions in relation to the music, especially in the SP. Her expressions in the AK program is related to the story, but not in the one she ditched.

For me, it is when the skaters have completely blank faces that the performance feels fake and not genuine. There is no connection to the music or the audience. I love the way Evgenia performs and she's not the only one doing this as you pointed out. It is interesting that she seems to be the only one criticized for it. I guess it comes down to personal taste at the end.

 

[madison]

For me, it is when the skaters have completely blank faces that the performance feels fake and not genuine. There is no connection to the music or the audience. I love the way Evgenia performs and she's not the only one doing this as you pointed out. I guess it comes down to personal taste at the end.

Yes, but Med lacks authenticity, the expressions don't seem to come from her interior, but rather something learned and superficially understood.
When I watch a Med's programme, I simply don't believe her....

 

[Yatagarasu]

Yes, but Med lacks authenticity, the expressions don't seem to come from her interior, but rather something learned and superficially understood. When I watch a Med's programme, I simply don't believe her....

Anyway, that's subjective, and not some objective truth. I am sure she'll live that you don't believe her.

The judges do believe her though, which is what counts. I think she sells her programs just fine for example, though I was more fond of her FS than her SP last season. This one, I'm fond of both.

 

[madison]

Anyway, that's subjective, and not some objective truth. I am sure she'll live that you don't believe her.

The judges do believe her though, which is what counts. I think she sells her programs just fine for example, though I was more fond of her FS than her SP last season. This one, I'm fond of both.

Well, it can be stated that figure skating is a highly subjective sport. Med won a lot by being consistent when others weren't. I think this was her best plus.

 

[Grin]

Apparently Evgenia fell in practice. I’m shocked.
Nothing much about Elena, but I heard she’s doing a 3sal-3toe.
Is there practice video up yet?

Did she fall on the 3luzt?

 

[Kittosuni]

Did she fall on the 3luzt?

fell on 3F then stepped out on the second 3F during her FS runthru.

She went back to drill 5 3F-3T after that

 

[Shayuki]

Yes, but Med lacks authenticity, the expressions don't seem to come from her interior, but rather something learned and superficially understood.
When I watch a Med's programme, I simply don't believe her....

I don't think I can agree with that at all, Medvedeva's actual musicality, understanding of music and acting in general is of a very high level and this has always been her strength, even back when her technical skills weren't close to her current level.

It's just your projection on what you feel would be the case in my opinion. Watch Medvedeva's dance videos, she's really good at understanding how to feel different types of music(for a figure skater).

 

[Yatagarasu]

Well, it can be stated that figure skating is a highly subjective sport. Med won a lot by being consistent when others weren't. I think this was her best plus.

It is, which is why I objected.
As for winning 'just' because she was consistent, that's a gross oversimplification. She was consistent with backloaded, complex and demanding programs, even if it wasn't the highest possible jump content. How difficult that is, is clearly shown when even after two seasons she's not being challenged by many, because if it were, they'd all just copy her and they're not. I find her to be highly musical too, which is why the programs work so well for her.

As for what's her best plus, I would say it is her head. Her mental strength is something else. She wasn't heralded as the most talented Russian, never mind the most talented world junior. Yet here we are now, years later, and how things have changed. If you don't have the head, and that champion mentality, everything else won't count.

 

[Sam L]

Medvedeva has good lines and she's musical. She's also quite a good actress and interprets and feels the music quite well. That's why she's given the programs she's had. As a package, she presents her programs very well when she's been given good material. These IMO are good programs that are very rewatcheable. That's a sign of a good skater someone who does something with their programs to appeal to the audience. I suspect that's why she's favoured a lot by the judges.

 

[Ares]

I didn’t post that to say that evgenia is done. I posted that because evgenia is so perfect 95% of the time, even in practice, that when she falls, it’s news. I’ve grown so used to her landing absolutely everything that I was surprised to find out that she fell. I almost believe she isn’t human.
Evgenia is not done. She’ll win this weekend.

I knew that you were joking, it was obvious.

 

[Ares]

Well, Medvedeva's lutz is a pretty glaring error to me. It sticks out like a sore thumb in her programs, unfortunately. It's a relatively minor flaw but it's one of the more obvious ones for the high caliber seniors for sure. Her lutz height also is extremely low, though that's not such a big problem I guess and might not be as noticeable. The good thing is that unlike some skaters, Medvedeva recognizes this weakness and only performs a single lutz in total.

Now, when it comes to falls, yeah it's pretty crazy how consistent Medvedeva has managed to be. To be fair though, she's not really been challenged in a way where she'd have to really push herself. She's mostly been competing against herself and the record books. One thing about Medvedeva is that she's very close to peaking when it comes to her technical content, at least with the tools she currently possesses. Her 2A is relatively weak(her worst jump, least favorite jump and her last competitive fall) so she has no prospects for performing a 3A. She also barely has a Lutz and really can't repeat it in programs, which hurts TES a little. She might be able to add a loop combo but that too is a bit of a work in progress. And ultimately, even thats benefit is less than that of just adding a second lutz would be.

She might be able to get away with it for now, but it'll be very interesting to see how Zagitova is able to challenge her with her quite clearly superior technical content. And the new 3A/quad juniors getting promoted to seniors will eventually be very interesting to see as well. However, as of now Medvedeva really is without equal in ladies and Zagitova just doesn't have enough time to establish herself as a serious threat before the olympics(Though I'd like that to be the case).


Now, an angle to look at could well be that they're going to try hard to push Zagitova as a rival for Medvedeva as it might be boring to have a completely dominant victory in the olympics. So if this is the case, Zagitova might establish her sooner than expected - It remains to be seen.

For us - figure skating geeks her flutz is glaring, but for the other people who are not such it is not