"twisting words"? it's exactly his own words. He said specifically last year's worlds while they actually blew it again just one month ago.
2018 Worlds Short Dance
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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"twisting words"? it's exactly his own words. He said specifically last year's worlds while they actually blew it again just one month ago.
Yes, they did. But they were probably simply comparing competition to competition?
Last year the spanish Fed announced that they were going to send to worlds the team that would get the best technical score in the short dance at any international competition. The team that got the highest score was H/K (only by 0.10) and they also won nationals, but then the federation said they would send S/D to worlds anyways. There was some controversy about this so this year they announced they would send to the olympics the team that got the best score adding golden spin and nationals. This team was H/K but only thanks to the golden spin score, and since there was troubles with the scoring there it caused controversy again. In the end H/K had a highest score at europeans and olympics than S/D at european and worlds so it looks like it was the right choice to send them to the olympics.
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- Aug 25, 2017
And I think it's presumptuous to think that a medal is "yours" after only half of the competition...
it's not like they were a point and a place apart. They were 8pts and 6 places apart...
Shouldas, couldas and wouldas.
It's easier to look at facts:
The fact is the Shibs have won multiple world and Olympic medals.
The fact is in head-to-head competition, the Shibs have only lost to Hubbell and Donohue once -- at this year's U.S. Nationals. The Shibutanis have yet to lose to H/D in international competition.
The fact is that Hubbell and Donohue are in 2nd and in position to win their first World medal at this competion. I wish them luck in the free dance.
It's easier to look at facts:
The fact is the Shibs have won multiple world and Olympic medals.
The fact is in head-to-head competition, the Shibs have only lost to Hubbell and Donohue once -- at this year's U.S. Nationals. The Shibutanis have yet to lose to H/D in international competition.
The fact is that Hubbell and Donohue are in 2nd and in position to win their first World medal at this competion. I wish them luck in the free dance.
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I was trying to reply to this but i didnt quote right, sorry.
I wrote earlier that I get the impression the Spanish Fed prefers S/D. Looks like they really do.
(But regardless of that we cannot compare scores between competitions, let alone seasons).
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- Apr 2, 2016
Fine, twisting the *meaning* of words. He wasn’t saying anything bad about the Shibs at all.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I think that's the problem right there. Time after time Hubbell and Donohue seem like they are gaining, gaining, gaining; they're right there, ready to make their move at last! -- and then they make a big error and their chance slips away once again. I'm sure Zach is frustrated by the whole history and feels in his heart, "Darn it! I know we can beat these guys!"
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- Nov 8, 2014
From a performance standpoint--not technically-speaking--I'm really happy P/C beat the record. P/C really skate with an abandon. They just do. They aren't performing for an audience, and this is a good thing from an acting standpoint. Whereas V/M actively perform in my eyes. They put on false emotions and feelings which truly is not what acting is about. V/M come off as a canned performance. Their skating is unbelievable, though, but not the performing.
I dont know if they prefer one team. With the golden spin judging trouble they had a good excuse to change the criteria, so maybe they tried to compensate for last year sending them. I have hopes they get 2 spots for next year so we can enjoy both couples.
Maia and Alex make mistakes too, they lost unusual levels at Worlds 2017, Alex messed up totally at GPF, Maia stumbled (for the first time in her whole senior career) at Nationals during step seq. For some reason people love to think or to say IF H/D, but ignore that IF Maia and Alex did not make mistakes they would be getting different score too.
People think simply Zach could not express well his thoughts but I remember when he said he wanted to be Gold medalist, he apologized after that comment, I did not understad why, I even defend him on his fan thread, there were no reason to apologize for that and now when he realized that he uses words that undermine to their rivals, he is not doing clarifications. So I guess he really meant what he express with words.
Anyway, I hope that now that he can finally get his medal, he can overcome his trauma.
People think simply Zach could not express well his thoughts but I remember when he said he wanted to be Gold medalist, he apologized after that comment, I did not understad why, I even defend him on his fan thread, there were no reason to apologize for that and now when he realized that he uses words that undermine to their rivals, he is not doing clarifications. So I guess he really meant what he express with words.
Anyway, I hope that now that he can finally get his medal, he can overcome his trauma.
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- Jul 26, 2003
I'm just going to make one comment about this and then hope that this thread goes back to just discussing the SD and the actual skaters that competed.
I think some responded to Zach's comments that way because it wasn't the first noted behavior that exhibited a lack of graciousness towards the Shibs this season (there's been observed previous comments, social media "likes" of posts bad-mouthing the Shibs, expressions after the Nationals SD, etc.). In isolation those things seem ok (well, not the likes on social media) on their own, but taken together some people felt enough was enough. I also think some are probably guilty of conflating behavior of some of the worst H/D fans and those who just wanted the Shibs to lose on to H/D and are taking it out on H/D when they really are angry at this whole season's fan wars. Most people haven't paid attention and that line on its own seems ok even if it could be worded better, but the people who reacted are the ones who paid a lot of attention this season to the ice dance field and when that happens every ice dancer's behavior gets heigtened...maybe it's a situation where we fans are paying too much attention.
I will say that at face value it sounds like Zach is saying the Shibs didn't earn their Worlds medal when we know it's not that simple because had the Shibs hit their SD levels at Worlds they way they did at 4CC and the GPF that season they could have placed 3rd or even be close to 2nd after the SD thus changing the whole landscape leading into the FD. Anyway, the season is almost over, the Shibs may be retiring (though I would not be surprised if they continued) and it'll be a new ice dance world next season with a bunch of new rules for us to argue over. And for what it's worth, H/D were incredible this morning and they are a team worthy of a world medal.
I think some responded to Zach's comments that way because it wasn't the first noted behavior that exhibited a lack of graciousness towards the Shibs this season (there's been observed previous comments, social media "likes" of posts bad-mouthing the Shibs, expressions after the Nationals SD, etc.). In isolation those things seem ok (well, not the likes on social media) on their own, but taken together some people felt enough was enough. I also think some are probably guilty of conflating behavior of some of the worst H/D fans and those who just wanted the Shibs to lose on to H/D and are taking it out on H/D when they really are angry at this whole season's fan wars. Most people haven't paid attention and that line on its own seems ok even if it could be worded better, but the people who reacted are the ones who paid a lot of attention this season to the ice dance field and when that happens every ice dancer's behavior gets heigtened...maybe it's a situation where we fans are paying too much attention.
I will say that at face value it sounds like Zach is saying the Shibs didn't earn their Worlds medal when we know it's not that simple because had the Shibs hit their SD levels at Worlds they way they did at 4CC and the GPF that season they could have placed 3rd or even be close to 2nd after the SD thus changing the whole landscape leading into the FD. Anyway, the season is almost over, the Shibs may be retiring (though I would not be surprised if they continued) and it'll be a new ice dance world next season with a bunch of new rules for us to argue over. And for what it's worth, H/D were incredible this morning and they are a team worthy of a world medal.
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- Feb 24, 2012
Yep, Guillaume is doing a better job but I have to say this is some of the worstjudgingg or rather overmarked scoring I have ever seen. First the tech callers are generous then the judges argiving ridiculous GOE's followed by more ridiculous PCS. This reminds of the 6.0 era when the US nationals gave out six just for wearing a Vera Wang basically. A ten should not be given out so easily. Sorry, if the french deserve a 10 and that is a big if it is for the FD. This really cheapens the scroes. Ia lmost think there should be an asterik by any score for 2018 worlds. I mean what are the odds that with all the retirements/injuries of top skaers everyoen just got that much better in a month - when usually the eprformances go down and there are more errors due to tirendness of the longer season. Sorry, Italy deserves a huge negative GOE for this worlds' and the scoring.
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- Feb 10, 2014
Totally agree. It's like marking based on the curve in education. Ie, a guaranteed number of each grade, etc. It pre-assumes that the 'smartest' kid in the class is actually an 'A', whereas said student might only be a 'B' or less. I've had years (like this one) when none of my students are getting an A - they're just weaker in the core subjects. A couple years back I had a class and the highest student was a C+ average, and even then I was being generous.
That's what we're seeing here at worlds in a lot of cases. Really? 83? Come on... The 'best' skater(s) any given year are not automatically deserving of 10's purely b/c they're the best that year. Think about Chock and Bates, at one point world # 1's, believe it or not. However, they were by NO means 10's skaters, probably not even 9's if we're honest. Why can't we just be honest and admit that excellence is uncommon. 10's, and even 9's aren't to be sprinkled like parmesan cheese.
Yes, Zagitova is fantastic in many areas, but a 9 in skating skills she is not, in any objective universe. So don't give her 9's 'just because she's #1 overall.'
I am a huge PC fan... but was this SD better than VM's Prince last year? No way. Not even close. Their FD is magical, and should be marked accordingly. But this was by no means the best SD ever.
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- Mar 23, 2018
Papadakis Cizeron upper body movements are one of a kind! Gives a real Latino vibe to it! Best Short Dance of all time.
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- Mar 23, 2018
Yes, definitely. V&M don't have the same level of upper body moevements that PC have, which elevates the performance to a higher level. Don't just look at the footwork and acrobatics, look at the whole package.
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- Nov 12, 2012
Thank You for this post.
I also think that Hubbell /Donohue were great this morning, seeing them live in Milan - the thing is for me that they should focus more/solely on themselves and their competitiveness level, stuff they are doing instead of pointing out at others, Shibutanis especially. Since last Worlds, they had 3 situations to secure a medal at major events - and they only had to deliver quality in their own stuff. To me, more gracious would be to admit self-mistakes and expressing drive to get rid of them or just prove everyone wrong by next outing (which could be in Milan) which actually Shibutanis have done several times. Zach's words summed up into particular narrative come off as petty and unnecessary degading of Shibutanis' work - especially about them (Hubbell /Donohue) handling Maia and Alex a medal. It really does not look good on him or on anyone for that matter to be honest. They better focus on thing under their supervision: their own stuff and quality of it.
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- Feb 16, 2010
For fun, 2019 Worlds spots based solely on SP placements
3 spots
USA (2 + 5 = 7)
CAN (3 + 6 = 9)
ITA (4 + 9 = 13)
2 spots
FRA (1 + 14 = 15)
RUS (7 + 8 = 15)
JPN (10, only team) - up from 1 spot
3 spots
USA (2 + 5 = 7)
CAN (3 + 6 = 9)
ITA (4 + 9 = 13)
2 spots
FRA (1 + 14 = 15)
RUS (7 + 8 = 15)
JPN (10, only team) - up from 1 spot
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